AD Survey on Dutch riders doping

[theyoungest]

You have to wonder about his kids...

Yes, if I were Mathieu van der Poel and my father reacted this way to doping questions I wouldn't be happy, let's put it that way.

You are beginning to sound like ryo.

To use the words of Adri van der Poel: I'm not going to take that nonsense

All this denial coming from a country where dope is legal?

Now we know how to say Omerta in Dutch.

Dave.

Ah, the ole "everyone in Holland is on drugs" joke. It didn't take long. I'm happy to inform that this country has a (far) smaller drugs problem than the US of A.

 

[Tinman]

lol, everybody is an expert but nobody knows the true facts. what country are you talking about? because dope is illegal in the Netherlands. they have some of the lowest rates of drug abuse/addiction in the world. virtually no prescription abuse (as compared to what is going on in the USA with scripts). drugs are much harder to find here than any big city in America. they all ride bicycles instead of driving cars and for such a small country with no land or resources, they constantly churn out some amazing athletes.

You're flattering yourself. Many things that are illegal in the Netherlands that the police and legal system simply won't follow through, like marijuana. If one characteristic shines through dutch culture it is liberalism, and often that includes turning a blind eye to things that are illegal but everyone does or knows of people doing. Including drugs in sport.

And the number of amazing athletes? Come on. "Amazing" in what way? And what main stream sports? And compared with Australia/New Zealand and population sizes?

And one could argue that Mart Smeets by continuing to be 'liberal' with the truth has done significant damage to the way people understand/tolerate pro-cycling in the Netherlands.

 

[peterst6906]

And the number of amazing athletes? Come on. "Amazing" in what way? And what main stream sports? And compared with Australia/New Zealand and population sizes?

Korfbal aside, let's see:

1. Field hockey - both women and men (similar to Oz)
2. Speed skating (one of the strongest countries in the World)
3. Football (last Euro aside)
4. Sailing (stronger than Oz and NZ)
5. Baseball
6. Swimming (a bit stronger than Oz on recent performances)

Having lived in The Netherlands for 7 years, the external picture of drugs doesn't match the truth in terms of recreational use (except for tourists).

There are some strange things in the country, but the same can be said of every country.

The Dutch in my view are no better or no worse than anyone else in relation to the use of PEDs (perhaps better than some countries teams over the last 15-20 years, but not many).

 

[Tinman]

Korfbal aside, let's see:

1. Field hockey - both women and men (similar to Oz)
2. Speed skating (one of the strongest countries in the World) 5 countries or so doing this on a long track LOL
3. Football (last Euro aside) - never won anything of note, always team dynamic issues, but yes certainly talent. But compare to real football eg All Black rugby LOL
4. Sailing (stronger than Oz and NZ) - you make me laugh here, no comment required if you somewhat know the sailing scene in both ANZ & Holland. As much as the dutch pride themselves for this, no comparison who are the better sailing nations
5. Baseball - another major world sport this one
6. Swimming (a bit stronger than Oz on recent performances) - how old are you? Lets do a medal count for the last 15 years for worlds and olympics: no comparison

Having lived in The Netherlands for 7 years, the external picture of drugs doesn't match the truth in terms of recreational use (except for tourists). Agree, but Cobblestoner's original comment was about the law and its follow through

There are some strange things in the country, but the same can be said of every country.

The Dutch in my view are no better or no worse than anyone else in relation to the use of PEDs (perhaps better than some countries teams over the last 15-20 years, but not many).Agree, but with regard to tolerating it I would say the dutch public is probably worse than most, only secondary to the southern europeans.

my post was in reply to Cobblestoner's comment on tolerating PEDs. The supposed athleticism is secondary. So much for "true facts"

 

[Arnout]

I think you don't realize how big football is in non-colonies of the UK.

 

[peterst6906]

some denegration of sports that Tinman doesn't think are mainstream

OK, so 'main stream' is only measured by the definition that you apply; and it seems success in those sports is measured only by some Tinman mystery method as well.

What are those definitions by the way?

The post was nothing to do with my original post, just some additional information you asked for, irrespective who it was directed at (since the forum clearly doesn't preclude anyone offering information when a question is asked).

On the age issue, I'm no spring chicken anymore, but if you were trying to infer immaturity, keep trying. A bit more work to do yet. I must concede though that your use of 'LOL' showed your maturity. Very 1990's. It'll be cat pictures next (but please don't unless you want to send me one by pm. No need to go that far off topic)..

 

[theyoungest]

You're flattering yourself. Many things that are illegal in the Netherlands that the police and legal system simply won't follow through, like marijuana. If one characteristic shines through dutch culture it is liberalism, and often that includes turning a blind eye to things that are illegal but everyone does or knows of people doing. Including drugs in sport.

I don't believe CobbleStoner is flattering himself, as he is German.

Okay, now for the sports:

1. Field hockey - both women and men (similar to Oz)

Not really a huge world sport, but yes Oz and Holland are somewhat equal.

2. Speed skating (one of the strongest countries in the World) 5 countries or so doing this on a long track LOL

Not a huge sport either, but bigger than you think, coming from Oceania where nothing ever freezes

3. Football (last Euro aside) - never won anything of note, always team dynamic issues, but yes certainly talent. But compare to real football eg All Black rugby LOL

The Dutch were finalists in the last football worlds. Do you have any idea how big that sport is? By far the biggest sport/tournament in the world. To compare it with rugby is just a joke. 90% of the world has never seen a rugby match.

4. Sailing (stronger than Oz and NZ) - you make me laugh here, no comment required if you somewhat know the sailing scene in both ANZ & Holland. As much as the dutch pride themselves for this, no comparison who are the better sailing nations

I don't know much about sailing. However I do know that Holland came away with 3 medals at the last Olympics, vs 4 for Australia. Wow Oz is far superior.

5. Baseball - another major world sport this one

It's funny, baseball isn't big at all in Holland. It is however huge in most of the nations we beat at the baseball worlds, like Cuba.

6. Swimming (a bit stronger than Oz on recent performances) - how old are you? Lets do a medal count for the last 15 years for worlds and olympics: no comparison

Let's do a count of money invested in swimming. No comparison either.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

If you want to continue with the "My country is better than yours nyah nyah nyah" discussion, take it to the Cafe. No more of it here.

Susan

 

[theyoungest]

If you want to continue with the "My country is better than yours nyah nyah nyah" discussion, take it to the Cafe. No more of it here.

Susan

Not even if we say "my country is better at doping than yours"?

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Now that might be an interesting discussion... not real sure who the winner would be!

But in its own thread, not here.

Susan

 

[Tinman]

For the record, I grew up in the Netherlands, lived there for 20 years, then another 20 combined in ANZ. Another 10 or so elsewhere. Sailing and cycling (later also triathlon) thick in my blood from early age, did some junior rugby coaching, and a bit of 400m track skating as a kid also. Australian swimming performances for the decade since around 1998 have been extraordinary, hence my jested comment about age. And yes I did experience a few soccer World and European cup disappointments also along the way, including the 1972 Holzenbein caused penalty against Germany that tipped that match. So I think all of that qualifies me somewhat in the frivolous debate which I have no intention of further stimulating.

My original reply post was (mostly) about cultural (Dutch) differences on tolerating PED's by the way...