after yesterday it's clear "safety" argument is complete bs!

[180mmCrank]

Do people really think that having regular updates on who is where and what is going on in breaks etc makes no difference? The alternative being some guy on a motorbike with a chalk board. Come on of course it makes a difference.

AND I thought the safety concerns were not just about what might be said on a radio. I thought there was more concern about team cars trying to communicate with riders by driving a little more aggressively and or the need for more riders to be going back and forth between the peloton and the cars. This is the same argument as the one used to support not allowing riders to ditch their helmets at the base of big climbs... Too much to and fro between the riders and the cars.

DS want radios so that they can control riders. It's a control thing not a safety thing for them.

Summary... Most conservative riders want radios because they want to know what is going on. DSs want radios to control riders. If you are a big team in a big race you want radios to better control the race. If you are an aggressive rider or a smaller team you might prefer more randomness in a race and therefore you wouldn't want radios. Happy to discuss.

 

[Cobblestoned]

cobblestoned to appear and defend DS's everywhere in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...........

Sorry you had to wait so long till my appearance.
I just defend the world from BS and some laughable conclusions
Since I hate to repeat, you have to find my arguments about that issue yourself.
But nice to see that another thread was opened for that, and another DS-hatethread was opened. lol

Just have to look at "favorite team"-thread to see what some people here are on, since this is also ending in hatefest.

(I like team A,....)

but I hate B-Z, because....and....also hate....don't like....have new sponsors....and....stupid.....and hate this team because....DS is joke...and just hate them....cause they win...and so on....wahwahwah

 

[Oldman]

they were showing them pretty often and all I heard was tatics. If they were talking about safety then it must of been a big coincidence that we didn't see them used.

Not only was it about "tactics" but most would agree; Quickstep and Garmin would have probably fared better without hearing from the two DSs.

 

[Cobblestoned]

That's because he's fallen and hit his head a few times too many

Saw way better efforts to insult me.
High level motherjokes etc.

Go on trying.

 

[michaeld]

Not only was it about "tactics" but most would agree; Quickstep and Garmin would have probably fared better without hearing from the two DSs.

If Farrah had the legs, could he have figured out that he needed to follow the right wheels (a la Nuyens) and found himself in a better position?

On the radio, JV says 'don't chase, we ride for 3rd'. Dumb. Of course you don't chase if you're solo. But if after the catch, 10 riders ride away and you watch them go...your own fault.

The whole radio culture has dumbed riders down.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

If Farrah had the legs, could he have figured out that he needed to follow the right wheels (a la Nuyens) and found himself in a better position?

On the radio, JV says 'don't chase, we ride for 3rd'. Dumb. Of course you don't chase if you're solo. But if after the catch, 10 riders ride away and you watch them go...your own fault.

The whole radio culture has dumbed riders down.

exactly and that is the real problem here. it's not about oh in the old days everything was better but in fact it was because riders had to think for themselves until in 1996 they started using them in the peloton.

 

[hatcher]

It also showed that radios don't stop great racing.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

It also showed that radios don't stop great racing.

that's not the point. the point is that cylist should ride on own ideas and instincts instead of those screamed in their ears

 

[Oldman]

If Farrah had the legs, could he have figured out that he needed to follow the right wheels (a la Nuyens) and found himself in a better position?

On the radio, JV says 'don't chase, we ride for 3rd'. Dumb. Of course you don't chase if you're solo. But if after the catch, 10 riders ride away and you watch them go...your own fault.

The whole radio culture has dumbed riders down.

When we were amatuer teammates he knew what to do. We can't know how he felt and he may have been cooked. Otherwise he should have followed that group.

 

[El Pistolero]

I don't get this: "The tv producer only let us see what he thought would be interesting." argument.
I thought these were live links, in which case no one knew what the DSs were about to come out with..........a bit risque, imo.

No, they were not live. VRT just picked some radio streams and edited them in the live coverage. By no means was it live.

 

[Cobblestones]

If Farrah had the legs, could he have figured out that he needed to follow the right wheels (a la Nuyens) and found himself in a better position?

On the radio, JV says 'don't chase, we ride for 3rd'. Dumb. Of course you don't chase if you're solo. But if after the catch, 10 riders ride away and you watch them go...your own fault.

The whole radio culture has dumbed riders down.

Now I don't remember exactly how it happened, but if Farrar had helped in the chase, he might have been more attentive during the catch and not missed the selection?

When you're not helping you tend to be further down in the peloton. Easy to miss the catch and the next breakaway (in particular when the DS gets fed outdated timing and doesn't warn you through your earpiece).

Maybe without JV's instructions Farrar might have made the selection after all?

 

[BM1979]

Only if the fans or sponsors are completely ignorant.

Telling Farrar not to ride was a completely correct attempt to optimise Farrar's chances of winning, and therefore the team's chances of winning. With Farrar, their last rider with any legs, saving himself there was a very slim chance of a sprint victory. With Farrar spending energy in the chase, assisting teams which had many more riders in the bunch, they wouldn't even have that slim chance.

I can understand people getting annoyed and confused at the time. It wasn't clear to the viewer that only Farrar and Hushovd were still with the main group and that Hushovd was about to get dropped. But still whining about it now is just stupid.

There are many things to criticise Vaughters for, but this was something he made the right call on and every other DS would have done the same.

As far as radios are concerned, I'd still prefer to get rid of them, although I'd allow a single common channel available to all riders communicating safety issues and safety issues only. If they don't get rid of them though, I do actually quite like the in car excerpts.

Thats what i stated in my original post , new fans or possible sponsors who new nothing about cycling

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

if your teammanager tells you to not do anything and go for 3rd place what does that for morale?? exactly it was the dumbest call ever. bmc rode themselves into good morale and left flanders with their heads up high despite no result

 

[Dutchsmurf]

Most of the so called 'tactics' was just DSs telling their riders what they already knew. If Farrar had the legs, he would have followed. Also I notice this discussion is mostly focusing on one call made by one director. The rest was all "come on guys" or "hill coming, get to the front" (like they need to know that, this is Flanders, there is always a next hill soon). And even that one call didn't make much difference, Farrar probably knew not to ride himself anyway.

 

[Oldman]

Now I don't remember exactly how it happened, but if Farrar had helped in the chase, he might have been more attentive during the catch and not missed the selection?

When you're not helping you tend to be further down in the peloton. Easy to miss the catch and the next breakaway (in particular when the DS gets fed outdated timing and doesn't warn you through your earpiece).

Maybe without JV's instructions Farrar might have made the selection after all?

You made my point for me. He made his progress to this level by being a heads-up rider without the benefit of radios. He knows how to maintain position without a huge waste of energy and should have known when to follow the danger wheels. It's easy to say what to do but those roads were chaotic and difficult to keep track of things as they unfolded in those last 5 km.

 

[jaylew]

Still don't have a terribly strong opinion on radios one way or the other but I think we're missing the big DS decision that actually influenced the race.

Chav wanted to ride with Cancellara but was under orders not to. Good chance they could have gone to the finish otherwise and we would have been robbed of some really great racing. So no real guarantee the lack of radios will make the racing more exciting. It can go both ways.

 

[mad black]

I think one of the best calls we missed would have been the Quickstep DS giving a new meaning to the famous "Tommeke, Tommeke, Tommeke, wat doe je nu?" when the dimwit attacked only to provide a springboard for Cancellara while his own team mate was in the lead. I would have paid money to hear the DS go off at Boonen.

About the whole radio debate my opinion is that it's the 21st century and we should simply go with the times. Radio wasn't around in any sport 20+ years ago yet it's comon technology in many sports today.

 

[Oldman]

I think one of the best calls we missed would have been the Quickstep DS giving a new meaning to the famous "Tommeke, Tommeke, Tommeke, wat doe je nu?" when the dimwit attacked only to provide a springboard for Cancellara while his own team mate was in the lead. I would have paid money to hear the DS go off at Boonen.

About the whole radio debate my opinion is that it's the 21st century and we should simply go with the times. Radio wasn't around in any sport 20+ years ago yet it's comon technology in many sports today.

Not that common and during this race didn't appear to contribute to the DS desired outcome. Let the kids play.

 

[Astana1]

The irony is that the biggest proponent of race radios and their use of communication between the team car and the riders as a way to enhance TV presentation, effective bolstered his own argument; quite possibly at his own team's expense.

Ultimately this makes competition closer to fans, making the race tactics a little more transparent to the fans. Anything that brings the sport closer to the fans can be a be a good thing.

 

[Oldman]

The irony is that the biggest proponent of race radios and their use of communication between the team car and the riders as a way to enhance TV presentation, effective bolstered his own argument; quite possibly at his own team's expense.

Ultimately this makes competition closer to fans, making the race tactics a little more transparent to the fans. Anything that brings the sport closer to the fans can be a be a good thing.

This part I could agree with if ONE team member could be the tactical contact for the race activity. If he crashed out then another guy could pick up the mic for the riders. Combine that audio with some pulse rate/wattage output graphics and the fans get great view of the pain. It would still rely on the riders communicating and thinking actively.