Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[DBotero]

Re: Re:

Some people think Ronaldo is better than Messi. Some of those are content with just feeling that way without being bothered by the fact that the public does not agree. But others care, they want history to remember Rondaldo being better, which requires a broad consensus that goes beyond Ronaldo's ardent supporters. If you are the former wrt to Contador's achivements, there's nothing to discuss really. If you are the latter, don't fool yourself into thinking another Tour victory won't be decisive as to how the wider public thinks about his legacy.

"Decisive"? tell me, 6 or 7 GTs/8 or 9 GTs, is it a big difference?
The double would mean 1000x more for his legacy than "just" another Tour win.

Well you are right about it,the double is another level.But what i don't get it is why people diminish his Vuelta wins.I think those are great achievements for Contador.I always ranked Giro as the 3rd GT and never changed my options during the years.I think those wins should be appreciated at their true value.And i'm still pissed about J.Rod losing that damn Vuelta.

 

[Walkman]

Re: Re:

The last non-Vuelta GT he won was in 2009 (and the Vuelta is the least prestigious GT). There's barely any basis for the suggestion that only winning the double would be meaningful for him or his legacy.

He won 8 GTs including 3 Tours (I know, not officially, but in the minds of him and many fans)
It is obvious that just a Tour win would not mean much
By the way I think Alberto will reach 10GTs, not officially though, as I can't see him winning 4 more

And Lance has 7 Tour victories, right?

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

The last non-Vuelta GT he won was in 2009 (and the Vuelta is the least prestigious GT). There's barely any basis for the suggestion that only winning the double would be meaningful for him or his legacy.

He won 8 GTs including 3 Tours (I know, not officially, but in the minds of him and many fans)
It is obvious that just a Tour win would not mean much
By the way I think Alberto will reach 10GTs, not officially though, as I can't see him winning 4 more

And Lance has 7 Tour victories, right?

Yes of course. Duh. And Indurain has 7 GTs. Merckx has 11. Your point being?

 

[DBotero]

Re: Re:

The last non-Vuelta GT he won was in 2009 (and the Vuelta is the least prestigious GT). There's barely any basis for the suggestion that only winning the double would be meaningful for him or his legacy.

He won 8 GTs including 3 Tours (I know, not officially, but in the minds of him and many fans)
It is obvious that just a Tour win would not mean much
By the way I think Alberto will reach 10GTs, not officially though, as I can't see him winning 4 more

And Lance has 7 Tour victories, right?

He won them on the road,didn't he? I never was a Lance fan,but got to say it:he's got 7 Tour wins.

 

[Jack_89]

Re: Re:

At the start:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tZiGYBNkjow

Thanks a lot! Important video.

He looks good on bike when is gone

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Re:

At the start:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tZiGYBNkjow

Thanks a lot! Important video.

He looks good on bike when is gone

we have to wait until this stage ends.

 

[Arnout]

Re: Re:

The last non-Vuelta GT he won was in 2009 (and the Vuelta is the least prestigious GT). There's barely any basis for the suggestion that only winning the double would be meaningful for him or his legacy.

He won 8 GTs including 3 Tours (I know, not officially, but in the minds of him and many fans)
It is obvious that just a Tour win would not mean much
By the way I think Alberto will reach 10GTs, not officially though, as I can't see him winning 4 more

And Lance has 7 Tour victories, right?

He won them on the road,didn't he? I never was a Lance fan,but got to say it:he's got 7 Tour wins.

Just like robbers earn money.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Its not just about the TDF being the most important but about the narrative that Contador's best ended at the end of the last decade and that he has been an average rider since. Some even add that he can no longer "use drugs" at the TDF and that's why he doesn't win there. Not my opinion but they are popular narratives and the only way to put them to bed is to win another TDF.

Some people have a very strange view of what 'average' means.

I fear that nothing will ever put that narrative to bed. Pointless trying.

Huh?
You sound like someone who just wants to give up.
Winning the Tour de France will quite clearly put it to bed

Don't kid yourself.

You think someone like Big Doopie will think Contador is a clean rider after he wins the TdF?

Personally I like the Giro more then the TdF, but a lot of 'purists' feel that way. The TdF is obviously more important and prestigious and winning it once more will certainly be better for Contador's legacy.

I really hope he wins the double though.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I just saw Berto dancing on the pedals

 

[arvc40]

Re:

I just saw Berto dancing on the pedals

He's out the saddle. Using right arm to get food from pocket with weight on left. At the Front.

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

Some people think Ronaldo is better than Messi. Some of those are content with just feeling that way without being bothered by the fact that the public does not agree. But others care, they want history to remember Rondaldo being better, which requires a broad consensus that goes beyond Ronaldo's ardent supporters. If you are the former wrt to Contador's achivements, there's nothing to discuss really. If you are the latter, don't fool yourself into thinking another Tour victory won't be decisive as to how the wider public thinks about his legacy.

"Decisive"? tell me, 6 or 7 GTs/8 or 9 GTs, is it a big difference?
The double would mean 1000x more for his legacy than "just" another Tour win.

Who is saying the Giro-Tour double wouldn't be an achievement of monstrous proportions? Surely not those of us who try and convince people that the Tour de France is really quite an important bike race regardless of the circumstances, an in Contador's case, even more important.

[quote="
What kind of alternative is this? You just made totally unempiric conclusion, there is no such a thing - People A, People B.I dont belong to any of those you wrote, cuz they dont exist you cant just divide people opinions to 2 groups and say its like That or like That.

Its a post which tries to be smart ,but its bs afterall.

It seems like unlike other people who merely disagree, you really didn't even understand the post. Unempiric? What? I cannot divide people into subsets according to some characteristic like what they believe? What? Dear oh dear.

 

[Jack_89]

Re:

I just saw Berto dancing on the pedals

Yeah , i'm writing the same thing. I'm thinking wasn't possibile

 

[rune1107]

Just saw Bertie standing up in the pedals. Very important that he can do so tomorrow!

 

[LaFlorecita]

Berto looking good so far

&

 

[panache]

of course winning the Tour is important. I think the thought is not just about winning another Tour, sure people will remember. But also winning the double makes people remember with a lot more admiration. There's a little additional "umph" winning the double. There's something about the fact no one has ever completed since Pantani makes it an interesting challenge. So it's not just about of how many Lemond won the Tour? yes everyone remember. How many so and so won the Giro? no one remembers. That's true. But people also remember who has won the last Giro-Tour double? And because people think is impossible to achieve double in modern cycling, makes winning it for Contador will cement his legacy further. No active riders currently has won 8 GTs (on the road), winning another GT in his eyes is just another collection of his tally. IMHO. We might disagree as a fan, but none of us riding GT and let alone won all 3 GT multiple times either

I agree. Prove you are still the best by preparing 100% for the Tour (defense of/cement your legacy), or prove you belong in the Pantheon of cycling greats by winning the double (escalation of your legacy).

Panache is part of the history of cycling. It is the tiebreaker between the greats, the anti-power meter. It is why we cheer for the breakaway and despise team trains. It takes a big pair of cojones to take on a packed Tour after the Giro.

As a fan of cycling, I would rather see reckless attack on the double fail than watch a calculated win in the Tour. Total GT count doesn't get my dopamine flowing years after the win. Winning with panache does.

 

[staubsauger]

I really hope he's okay. I want Aru to beat him straightforward to become a great champion. Not like Nibali, because Contador is hors de combat!

 

[Velolover2]

Saw a close up of his face. It looked a little like he was in pain, but maybe he was just focused on the race.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Saw a close up of his face. It looked a little like he was in pain, but maybe he was just focused on the race.

Yeah he looked a little uncomfortable, but he's out of the saddle a lot which is a good sign This is Alberto, he can push through a bit of discomfort, as long as he's not hampered by his injury all is good

 

[Jspear]

Re:

Saw a close up of his face. It looked a little like he was in pain, but maybe he was just focused on the race.

I would be shocked if he didn't have any pain.

 

[Velolover2]

Just hope he is ok. I want him to win the entire thing.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Some people think Ronaldo is better than Messi. Some of those are content with just feeling that way without being bothered by the fact that the public does not agree. But others care, they want history to remember Rondaldo being better, which requires a broad consensus that goes beyond Ronaldo's ardent supporters. If you are the former wrt to Contador's achivements, there's nothing to discuss really. If you are the latter, don't fool yourself into thinking another Tour victory won't be decisive as to how the wider public thinks about his legacy.

"Decisive"? tell me, 6 or 7 GTs/8 or 9 GTs, is it a big difference?
The double would mean 1000x more for his legacy than "just" another Tour win.

Every time this argument keeps coming up, I keep thinking. If the double is so much more important than another Tour. Why didn't Contador go for the double in 2014 or 2013? In fact even in 2012 he said wasn't going to do the giro if he wasn't banned.

 

[The Hitch]

Also if Contador's legacy is so important, why do all of you go full Jihad on me everytime I criticize Contador for not bothering with the WC, or monuments?

Cos you know what would actually be way more valuable to Contador's legacy than "another gt". A *** world championship. But everytime a course comes up that Contador could win on, he doesn't bother and all of you get really upset with me for suggesting he's making the wrong decision.

Monuments to some extent too.

 

[Miburo]

Contador is riding the giro cause in the tour he has way more competition and the risk for crashes are way higher.

So why not do the giro first. Then if you lose the tour you've an excuse, you can even do some risky things in the tour (eg tour 2011) which will create a lot of sympathy.

And by some chance you can maybe do an historical double which will make you a living legend.

And you create a lot of sympathy with the italians. And maglia rosa is always nice.

Contador was always forced to do the giro before, this is the first time he does it differently. I'm sure that's his mindset.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

quote/// It seems like unlike other people who merely disagree, you really didn't even understand the post. Unempiric? What? I cannot divide people into subsets according to some characteristic like what they believe? What? Dear oh dear. [/quote]



No,I understand it.(unfortunately) Your analyses with people divided between 2! groups (opinions) and explained on some vague RonaldoXMessi comparison (which is uncompareable too) is just so ridiculous that I had to react

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

Also if Contador's legacy is so important, why do all of you go full Jihad on me everytime I criticize Contador for not bothering with the WC, or monuments?

Cos you know what would actually be way more valuable to Contador's legacy than "another gt". A **** world championship. But everytime a course comes up that Contador could win on, he doesn't bother and all of you get really upset with me for suggesting he's making the wrong decision.

Monuments to some extent too.

Because he clearly is not good enough(different skills) to win WC.
Maybe WC in Boyaca, but I doubt.