Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[The_Cheech]

Re: Re:

Spot on. Is it only me and you who saw what happened at the vuelta
Froome fan boys are kidding themselves or in denial.
Bertie did enough for me today that convinced me that he can win the tour.
The only thing I would disagree with is Nibs. He is a unknown.
You must admit he looked impressive in last years tour. He climbed really well and never looked weak on any stage.
But if Bertie don't win then I'm happy for Nibs to win.

Nibali winning the TdF with a healthy CF and AC has more to do with sheer luck than anything else. I expect both Sky and TS to be super-duper vigilant during the cobble stone/wind swept stages, so, unless someone drops the ball big time, I don't see him carrying a 1-2 minute advantage to the mountain stages. And I certainly do not see him trading blows with AC, CF and Quintana in the Alps/Pyrenees.

Vincenzo's biggest weapon in his descending ability so... I really do not understand why he doesn't attack downhill a heck of a lot more often. For example, in the Cauterets stage, he has a monumental opportunity to gain A LOT of time on his opponents. If he gets a teammate or two in a breakaway and he does his thing coming down from the Tourmalet, I see him putting 1-2 minutes on everyone else.

Tourmalet's descent in technical only on the first part.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Spot on. Is it only me and you who saw what happened at the vuelta
Froome fan boys are kidding themselves or in denial.
Bertie did enough for me today that convinced me that he can win the tour.
The only thing I would disagree with is Nibs. He is a unknown.
You must admit he looked impressive in last years tour. He climbed really well and never looked weak on any stage.
But if Bertie don't win then I'm happy for Nibs to win.

Nibali winning the TdF with a healthy CF and AC has more to do with sheer luck than anything else. I expect both Sky and TS to be super-duper vigilant during the cobble stone/wind swept stages, so, unless someone drops the ball big time, I don't see him carrying a 1-2 minute advantage to the mountain stages. And I certainly do not see him trading blows with AC, CF and Quintana in the Alps/Pyrenees.

Vincenzo's biggest weapon in his descending ability so... I really do not understand why he doesn't attack downhill a heck of a lot more often. For example, in the Cauterets stage, he has a monumental opportunity to gain A LOT of time on his opponents. If he gets a teammate or two in a breakaway and he does his thing coming down from the Tourmalet, I see him putting 1-2 minutes on everyone else.

Tourmalet's descent in technical only on the first part.

Isn't Tourmalet the descent where you can reach 100km+ cause it has almost no curves at one point. The Great Kenny van Hummel once rode it just by the GPS in the car behind him, making up 2 minutes on the peloton and saving his Tour at that point


Also, is it legal to put guys at the top of the climb with lead bottles to get some serious extra weight to go downhill?

 

[rm7]

I've noticed that both Contador and Majka looks good fitness wise, very strong in ITT's and hilly stages, but they both seems to be a little bit below their true climbing ability.

Could it be a result of their training camp before the season?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

I've noticed that both Contador and Majka looks good fitness wise, very strong in ITT's and hilly stages, but they both seems to be a little bit below their true climbing ability.

Could it be a result of their training camp before the season?

Interesting observation, we will know more in a few weeks

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

I've noticed that both Contador and Majka looks good fitness wise, very strong in ITT's and hilly stages, but they both seems to be a little bit below their true climbing ability.

Could it be a result of their training camp before the season?

Its nice that they have a good ITT shape but thats almost completely irrilevante in this tour

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I've noticed that both Contador and Majka looks good fitness wise, very strong in ITT's and hilly stages, but they both seems to be a little bit below their true climbing ability.

Could it be a result of their training camp before the season?

Its nice that they have a good ITT shape but thats almost completely irrilevante in this tour

That is the point.

 

[Red Rick]

Judging by upper body size, the tactic isn't being the best uphill. It's more like *Hulk smash*

 

[BlurryVII]

Contador just said what he's gonna do for the last 13 days before the Tour, and that is basically what he did since the Giro, alternate between rest and soft training.

Having said that, I don't think he's gonna be lighter at the Tour than what he is now.

I would've rather seen do some hardcore training but whatever

Hope that will be enough...........

 

[rm7]

He could very well loose 1kg or maybe a little more in 2 weeks.

I also have this idea, that his upperbody size is massive and more pure power, than suited to climbing. I find it a little bit worrying, unless the tactic is to try gain an advantage on first first ITT, minimize losses on cobbles (to Nibali), and be strong on Huy and the TTT.

The most important thing is to come into stage 10 ahead of the other guys. But I still think the Tour will be decided in the mountains, unless you're 3-4 min behind after stage 9.

 

[cellardoor]

Perhaps he feels that he would just get sick if he tried to be super skinny for 3 months and that for the double you need to carry a bit of extra weight.

RE: Basso - I don't think he'll need to be part of the mountain train as they already have Majka, Kreuziger, Rogers and Kiserlovski. I think his role will be to pace them over the early climbs in the day and to act as one of Contador's bodyguards on the flat.

RE: Attacks on descents - they rarely work in my view, unless it's wet. It's different in the Dauphine and RdS because people are worried about taking risks, but that won't be the case to such an extent in the Tour. All you have to do is follow the lines of the better descender. To make an attack on a descent stick you really have to attack towards the top of the climb and create a gap. I seem to remember Nibali attacking Contador on a descent, I guess around 2010, and Contador just stayed calm and caught him back up after Nibali had wasted loads of energy. I also recall Sammy Sanchez attacking on descents a few times and they rarely came to anything.

 

[Publicus]

Re:

Perhaps he feels that he would just get sick if he tried to be super skinny for 3 months and that for the double you need to carry a bit of extra weight.

RE: Basso - I don't think he'll need to be part of the mountain train as they already have Majka, Kreuziger, Rogers and Kiserlovski. I think his role will be to pace them over the early climbs in the day and to act as one of Contador's bodyguards on the flat.

RE: Attacks on descents - they rarely work in my view, unless it's wet. It's different in the Dauphine and RdS because people are worried about taking risks, but that won't be the case to such an extent in the Tour. All you have to do is follow the lines of the better descender. To make an attack on a descent stick you really have to attack towards the top of the climb and create a gap. I seem to remember Nibali attacking Contador on a descent, I guess around 2010, and Contador just stayed calm and caught him back up after Nibali had wasted loads of energy. I also recall Sammy Sanchez attacking on descents a few times and they rarely came to anything.

I think this is pretty close to reality: he couldn't possibly be at his 2014 Tour weight from May-July without it adversely affecting him. I'd add that since everything is about power-to-weight, if he and Majka drop a couple of kilos (each) over the next 2 weeks, they will be both be flying when they get to the mountains (given the obvious amount of power they are both putting out). 2 Kilos in 13 days should be doable...

As for the fruitless Nibali attacks, I think those were in the 2011 Giro--still one my all time favorite GTs.

 

[Kwibus]

They cant possibly bring basso to the tour. Dear god.

 

[Forunculo]

Basso is the new Noval

 

[sunnyIce]

I posted on another thread abt the over excite with NQ.

Well lets put things in perspective shall we. I think it is only fair to say Nairo is a talent, and is a easy Top 10 and possiblyTop 5 pick for most GTs that he is going to enter. For obvious reasons. But, I think we also have to consider that he is a relative newbie, and us people tend to put too much faith in the next best thing. Let him first prove it over the course of a few years and few GTs consistently.

It easy to go under the radar and put in a big effort (like in 2013); not too dissimilar to landa in Giro, but now in 2015 he will be under close watch by the big guys. Its a whole diff ball game homes. The Sky Train, Astana Train, and Tinkoff Trains will be looking to shred him to bits. Just wait and watch. If he survives these train wrecks without major losses and makes it into the 3rd week, then and only then its game on.

Froome has got to be worried about the Astana train, and I expect the Sky Train to overcook it in the first 2 weeks. Astana is going to cook AC and isolate him for sure in week 2 and 3. AC should stay calm and wheelsuck the trains all the way into the 3rd week, if he wants to win. But we know he cant manage to do that, and will try to put some ridiculous attacks and throw a wrench on the train tracks. And so, may actually end up getting cooked and not win.

Its Nibali's for the taking, if he can play his cards right.

 

[sacrifice&hardwork]

Let's hope the team can finally come into their senses and not bring Basso to the Tour. If he *does* make the team is then he might replace Valgren or Kiserlovski. Of course it's all speculation and nothing is confirm.

 

[Velolover2]

The Tinkoff-train is going to be something like this: Tosatto -> Bennati -> Valgren -> Sagan -> Kreuziger -> Kišerlovski -> Rogers -> Majka -> Contador.

Or: Bennati -> Valgren -> Basso -> Sagan -> Kreuziger -> Kišerlovski -> Rogers -> Majka -> Contador.

As it stands now, Rogers will be the last man before Majka. He was better in the Giro and seems to be in better shape currently. I could also see Kišerlovski being used after Kreuziger who mostly will be used on the many of the short, steep climbs.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Spot on. Is it only me and you who saw what happened at the vuelta
Froome fan boys are kidding themselves or in denial.
Bertie did enough for me today that convinced me that he can win the tour.
The only thing I would disagree with is Nibs. He is a unknown.
You must admit he looked impressive in last years tour. He climbed really well and never looked weak on any stage.
But if Bertie don't win then I'm happy for Nibs to win.

Nibali winning the TdF with a healthy CF and AC has more to do with sheer luck than anything else. I expect both Sky and TS to be super-duper vigilant during the cobble stone/wind swept stages, so, unless someone drops the ball big time, I don't see him carrying a 1-2 minute advantage to the mountain stages. And I certainly do not see him trading blows with AC, CF and Quintana in the Alps/Pyrenees.

Vincenzo's biggest weapon in his descending ability so... I really do not understand why he doesn't attack downhill a heck of a lot more often. For example, in the Cauterets stage, he has a monumental opportunity to gain A LOT of time on his opponents. If he gets a teammate or two in a breakaway and he does his thing coming down from the Tourmalet, I see him putting 1-2 minutes on everyone else.

Tourmalet's descent in technical only on the first part.

Isn't Tourmalet the descent where you can reach 100km+ cause it has almost no curves at one point. The Great Kenny van Hummel once rode it just by the GPS in the car behind him, making up 2 minutes on the peloton and saving his Tour at that point


Also, is it legal to put guys at the top of the climb with lead bottles to get some serious extra weight to go downhill?

It must be remembered that back in the 1990 Tour, Greg Lemond dove down the Tourmalet to bring back a brazen Claudio Chiappucci and then on Luz Ardiden leap away to eventually win his third Tour.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Re: Re:

It must be remembered that back in the 1990 Tour, Greg Lemond dove down the Tourmalet to bring back a brazen Claudio Chiappucci and then on Luz Ardiden leap away to eventually win his third Tour.

God, I envy people with memories like this.....

 

[The_Cheech]

Re:

I posted on another thread abt the over excite with NQ.

Well lets put things in perspective shall we. I think it is only fair to say Nairo is a talent, and is a easy Top 10 and possiblyTop 5 pick for most GTs that he is going to enter. For obvious reasons. But, I think we also have to consider that he is a relative newbie, and us people tend to put too much faith in the next best thing. Let him first prove it over the course of a few years and few GTs consistently.

It easy to go under the radar and put in a big effort (like in 2013); not too dissimilar to landa in Giro, but now in 2015 he will be under close watch by the big guys. Its a whole diff ball game homes. The Sky Train, Astana Train, and Tinkoff Trains will be looking to shred him to bits. Just wait and watch. If he survives these train wrecks without major losses and makes it into the 3rd week, then and only then its game on.

Froome has got to be worried about the Astana train, and I expect the Sky Train to overcook it in the first 2 weeks. Astana is going to cook AC and isolate him for sure in week 2 and 3. AC should stay calm and wheelsuck the trains all the way into the 3rd week, if he wants to win. But we know he cant manage to do that, and will try to put some ridiculous attacks and throw a wrench on the train tracks. And so, may actually end up getting cooked and not win.

Its Nibali's for the taking, if he can play his cards right.

Meaning Astana are going to run like a train for the three weeks?

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

I have come to realise that I actually want AC to win this tour as much as I want Niali to win, cause I want to have experienced someone doing the double

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

I have come to realise that I actually want AC to win this tour as much as I want Niali to win, cause I want to have experienced someone doing the double

What is happening

 

[May0maniac]

Re: Re:

I have come to realise that I actually want AC to win this tour as much as I want Niali to win, cause I want to have experienced someone doing the double

What is happening

Someone has hacked his account, that's the only plausible explanation.

 

[Jspear]

Re:

I have come to realise that I actually want AC to win this tour as much as I want Niali to win, cause I want to have experienced someone doing the double

This is going in my signature!
(just till the end of July)

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

I have come to realise that I actually want AC to win this tour as much as I want Niali to win, cause I want to have experienced someone doing the double

This is going in my signature!
(just till the end of July)

He has deniability because he mispelled "Nibali". Freudian move if I ever saw one.

 

[Ataraxus]

Re:

I have come to realise that I actually want AC to win this tour as much as I want Niali to win, cause I want to have experienced someone doing the double

Well I have, once. And Le Deux Alpes stage was the day I totally fell in love with the sport.
I remember Bulbarelli to be saying that they hadn't witnessed such a splendid move for years and calling it "The stage that will remain in our hearts and in our brains".
Normally, for me, one love would be more than enough, but If I witness a move that will remain in my heart and in my brain again, I will cheer for the man