Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[rm7]

Re: Re:

In this form, compared to what the other are showing, I'm not so sure that Contador can drop any of them in the mountains, if he's the one that have to gain time. Not sure that they can drop him either, but Contador is the one that have more too loose.

I don't agree with that. First Contador is probably going to be (much?) better at the Tour. Second what did the others show? Nibali is even worse compared to last year at the Dauphiné, Froome struggled to distance TVG, and Quintana can't do anything else other than wheelsucking, of course it's easier since he doesn't expose himself to counter attacks which could've get him dropped if he tried to push .

And on the contrary, Contador is the one who has least to lose here, he won the Giro. The others put all the eggs in one basket, they only have one shot to make their season successful.

However, I agree on the fact that we'll probably not see peak Contador (Tour 09' - Tour 14' shape) this season. He's gonna be up there in the mix but not above them.

I'm sure he'll be better, but I'm not sure that he'll be much better than the Giro. Not like Tour 14 shape, but i have hopes for Vuelta 2014 shape. He's clearly bigger at his upperbody, and need to loose some weight.

I think Froome's obviously showing improvement, and TVG have been good all year, so he's probably a little bit further in his preparations.
I'm also quite confident Nibali will show the same form as last year, but we haven't seen him in top shape against any of the top guys on a longer MTF. I think he'll be the weakest of the 4.
Quintana will only be better than today.

As I stated, i didn't say that he'll be dropped by the others. But I think he'll be in the mix, but not at a level where he'll drop any of them on purpose. That's why it's important to be in front of the others when they hit the mountains, because it gives him the edge that he can wheelsuck and counter attack.

I know that Contador already won the Giro, but he's also the biggest star of the four. They'll look at him and say "hey, dont you want the double? I'll just come back next year, no problem."

 

[rm7]

Contador after the stage:

“I'm very happy with this victory. I strive to win in every race not just for myself and my team but also for our sponsors. I'd like to thank Tinkoff Bank, Saxo Bank, Citroën, Specialized, Sportful and all the partners of the team for their invaluable help. That's why it's always important to try and win”, says Contador.

“All my teammates did a very good job today and for that reason I had to round off the effort. On Port de Balès I was with Quintana and I asked him whether he wanted to collaborate in order to bring Latour back, who was alone at the front. Quintana said he didn't want to because he considered I was very strong. There was still a long way to go but I tried to control the race to the top of the climb. At that point I got a few meters from Quintana and I realized it was a question of gritting my teeth and holding on to the finish line. I staged a few attacks, just enough to be able to control the race”, comments Contador before adding:

“Every win is always important and boosts your morale but this one doesn't mean much. The main objective remains the Tour de France."

 

[Jelantik]

Re:

Great win. Quintana gave nothing away. Trouble for qman is that he has got to make up time he will lose in the tt. Nibs Is the only one who has not yet shown up. Looks good for Bertie. Froome will have his usual bad day or two. I'm starting to believe that the double is now on for Bertie.

agreed. He showed his descending skill today Nibali isn't the only one who can descent like daredevil. Contador can do the same. Looks like he got lots of tricks on his sleeve. Can't drop his rivals in the climb, let's see on the descent. This is how the mature contador will try to win TDF... with his experience, smart riding, excellent tactic, and a bag of tricks on his sleeve. When there's a will, there's a way. That's what he said. I think he'll be ready. Good luck Contador!!!

 

[The_Cheech]

Re:

Great win. Quintana gave nothing away. Trouble for qman is that he has got to make up time he will lose in the tt. Nibs Is the only one who has not yet shown up. Looks good for Bertie. Froome will have his usual bad day or two. I'm starting to believe that the double is now on for Bertie.

The main issue with the four is that when Chris has the bad day and Alberto wants to put some real estate between them and Froome, no one wants to cooperate. We saw it in last year's Vuelta, we saw it in one of the spring classics.

To me, both Nibali as well as Nairo are a tad wet behind the ears still, and when the time comes to grab the bull by the horns, they don't know what to do. They are always reactionary more than initiative-takers .

In last year's Vuelta, there were three or four times that, had the contenders worked together, could've completely annulled Froome as a threat.

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Re:

In this form, compared to what the other are showing, I'm not so sure that Contador can drop any of them in the mountains, if he's the one that have to gain time. Not sure that they can drop him either, but Contador is the one that have more too loose.

I don't agree with that. First Contador is probably going to be (much?) better at the Tour. Second what did the others show? Nibali is even worse compared to last year at the Dauphiné, Froome struggled to distance TVG, and Quintana can't do anything else other than wheelsucking, of course it's easier since he doesn't expose himself to counter attacks which could've get him dropped if he tried to push .

And on the contrary, Contador is the one who has least to lose here, he won the Giro. The others put all the eggs in one basket, they only have one shot to make their season successful.

However, I agree on the fact that we'll probably not see peak Contador (Tour 09' - Tour 14' shape) this season. He's gonna be up there in the mix but not above them.

I'm sure he'll be better, but I'm not sure that he'll be much better than the Giro. Not like Tour 14 shape, but i have hopes for Vuelta 2014 shape. He's clearly bigger at his upperbody, and need to loose some weight.

I think Froome's obviously showing improvement, and TVG have been good all year, so he's probably a little bit further in his preparations.
I'm also quite confident Nibali will show the same form as last year, but we haven't seen him in top shape against any of the top guys on a longer MTF. I think he'll be the weakest of the 4.
Quintana will only be better than today.

As I stated, i didn't say that he'll be dropped by the others. But I think he'll be in the mix, but not at a level where he'll drop any of them on purpose. That's why it's important to be in front of the others when they hit the mountains, because it gives him the edge that he can wheelsuck and counter attack.

I know that Contador already won the Giro, but he's also the biggest star of the four. They'll look at him and say "hey, dont you want the double? I'll just come back next year, no problem."

you might be right. He could also said.. hey I won the Giro already. So if I can win the tour great, if not.. don't you think any of you should win it? especially since the 3 of you targeting nothing but the Tour all season?? . And agreed, he is probably going to be in the mix, and if he can stay with Froome, that's good for him since Froome's attack typically dislodge everyone. (I just remember 2014 Vuelta, when Contador can't drop Valverde and Purito. He and Bjarne said (*read some article*) if Froome attacked, it actually benefited them. And Froome did attacked and contador glued on his wheel.. just dropped Froome after that). But of course, this time, he has to have the shape to stay with Froome..

 

[The_Cheech]

Re: Re:

In this form, compared to what the other are showing, I'm not so sure that Contador can drop any of them in the mountains, if he's the one that have to gain time. Not sure that they can drop him either, but Contador is the one that have more too loose.

I don't agree with that. First Contador is probably going to be (much?) better at the Tour. Second what did the others show? Nibali is even worse compared to last year at the Dauphiné, Froome struggled to distance TVG, and Quintana can't do anything else other than wheelsucking, of course it's easier since he doesn't expose himself to counter attacks which could've get him dropped if he tried to push .

And on the contrary, Contador is the one who has least to lose here, he won the Giro. The others put all the eggs in one basket, they only have one shot to make their season successful.

However, I agree on the fact that we'll probably not see peak Contador (Tour 09' - Tour 14' shape) this season. He's gonna be up there in the mix but not above them.

I'm sure he'll be better, but I'm not sure that he'll be much better than the Giro. Not like Tour 14 shape, but i have hopes for Vuelta 2014 shape. He's clearly bigger at his upperbody, and need to loose some weight.

I think Froome's obviously showing improvement, and TVG have been good all year, so he's probably a little bit further in his preparations.
I'm also quite confident Nibali will show the same form as last year, but we haven't seen him in top shape against any of the top guys on a longer MTF. I think he'll be the weakest of the 4.
Quintana will only be better than today.

As I stated, i didn't say that he'll be dropped by the others. But I think he'll be in the mix, but not at a level where he'll drop any of them on purpose. That's why it's important to be in front of the others when they hit the mountains, because it gives him the edge that he can wheelsuck and counter attack.

I know that Contador already won the Giro, but he's also the biggest star of the four. They'll look at him and say "hey, dont you want the double? I'll just come back next year, no problem."

you might be right. He could also said.. hey I won the Giro already. So if I can win the tour great, if not.. don't you think any of you should win it? especially since the 3 of you targeting nothing but the Tour all season?? . And agreed, he is probably going to be in the mix, and if he can stay with Froome, that's good for him since Froome's attack typically dislodge everyone. (I just remember 2014 Vuelta, when Contador can't drop Valverde and Purito. He and Bjarne said (*read some article*) if Froome attacked, it actually benefited them. And Froome did attacked and contador glued on his wheel.. just dropped Froome after that). But of course, this time, he has to have the shape to stay with Froome..

Froome's attacks are really not that bad. Don't get me wrong, if you let him go with 1K to go in a climb with 15% gradient he can use his awesome VO max to put some serious seconds on anyone. But Cobo showed everyone how to take the fight back: Let him go full genius and then slowly reel him back because he does slow down a bit after the initial attack.

 

[May0maniac]

It showed once again that Contador and Nibali have a huge advantage in the Tour, they can attack on all kinds of terrain.
The climb itself was just a training ride for Contador and Quintana, just compare their climbing time to last year's TdF: http://www.climbing-records.com/2015/06/training-ride-for-alberto-and-nairo-on.html
PS: Your website is awesome Jens.

 

[Pantani_lives]

Bertie is going to win the double: Giro-Route!

 

[jilbiker]

Why do we keep making comparisons to this illusionary 2014 TDF form /shape? Nothing was proven at the 2014 TDF, he came into the tour looking good, so what? Froome came in looking good. There are no numbers to back this statement of "great" 2014 TDF form except he was 2 minutes back when he left the TDF.

The fella knows what he is doing. Its a tough balance to recover effectively after Giro and take weight off and not arrive TDF at peak. Again I say that the smartest rider will win the TDF 2015 not the thinnest. What Bertie did today is why is the heads above the others. I cannot see one-track-template Froome figuring hey I can't beat xyz on the climb let me change and attack on the descent. Nibs maybe could have done that, but not Quintana.

Quintana was disappointing today, he is short on tactics. He made it so obvious he came to wheelsuck which is really playing into your opponent's hand. If I know your game plan then i can adapt my attack. He should have tested AC and attacked a couple of times.

 

[rm7]

Re:

Why do we keep making comparisons to this illusionary 2014 TDF form /shape? Nothing was proven at the 2014 TDF, he came into the tour looking good, so what? Froome came in looking good. There are no numbers to back this statement of "great" 2014 TDF form except he was 2 minutes back when he left the TDF.

The fella knows what he is doing. Its a tough balance to recover effectively after Giro and take weight off and not arrive TDF at peak. Again I say that the smartest rider will win the TDF 2015 not the thinnest. What Bertie did today is why is the heads above the others. I cannot see one-track-template Froome figuring hey I can't beat xyz on the climb let me change and attack on the descent. Nibs maybe could have done that, but not Quintana.

Quintana was disappointing today, he is short on tactics. He made it so obvious he came to wheelsuck which is really playing into your opponent's hand. If I know your game plan then i can adapt my attack. He should have tested AC and attacked a couple of times.

I don't think there is anything wrong to compare his form now, and to the so called "tour 2014" shape. I'll give you that we don't know how good he was, but you're clearly too focused on numbers. I don't like when people back up by numbers, because there are so many factors like wind, stage length, which stage etc, that needs to be considered.

But if you combine Contador spring 2014 level, and then saw his him in the Dauphine and the one mountain stage in the Tour (before he crashed), then I can't see your point. The only thing you can be uncertain about is, how STRONG he was, because he was clearly a level above the rest expect Froome.

I agree that the thinnest rider won't win the Tour, but nobody of them can afford to be dropped in the mountains. There are no long ITT, where they can gain time on Quintana. We also have no idea of how Quintana and Froome will go on the cobbles, but we know Nibali is very good, and Contador is decent at best.

Do people think that Sagan will be full time dom in the cobble stage? I hope so. It would also be great to have Sagan on the flat parts between.

 

[peloton]

Don't think Nairo did anything wrong today, he responded easily to the soft-ish attacks. Not sure why Contador should have gone all guns blazing as the stage had that long downhill finish.

But vamos, great!

Re. Giro this is so funny from a Sky troll

 

[rhubroma]

Re:

Why do we keep making comparisons to this illusionary 2014 TDF form /shape? Nothing was proven at the 2014 TDF, he came into the tour looking good, so what? Froome came in looking good. There are no numbers to back this statement of "great" 2014 TDF form except he was 2 minutes back when he left the TDF.

The fella knows what he is doing. Its a tough balance to recover effectively after Giro and take weight off and not arrive TDF at peak. Again I say that the smartest rider will win the TDF 2015 not the thinnest. What Bertie did today is why is the heads above the others. I cannot see one-track-template Froome figuring hey I can't beat xyz on the climb let me change and attack on the descent. Nibs maybe could have done that, but not Quintana.

Quintana was disappointing today, he is short on tactics. He made it so obvious he came to wheelsuck which is really playing into your opponent's hand. If I know your game plan then i can adapt my attack. He should have tested AC and attacked a couple of times.

I like your analysis, but if Froome can drop Contador in this mountainous Tour, then it's complicated.

I think 2014 is a fair barometer. He was really strong. So what if he lost 2+ minutes on the cobbles, since he had a mechanical? His climbing would have put Nibali in difficulty bar the crash, alas.

The Tour will be won by the strongest guy in the mountains. Contador, at some point, needs to drop his rivals. Though I don't see him in this capacity so far.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re:

Why do we keep making comparisons to this illusionary 2014 TDF form /shape? Nothing was proven at the 2014 TDF, he came into the tour looking good, so what? Froome came in looking good. There are no numbers to back this statement of "great" 2014 TDF form except he was 2 minutes back when he left the TDF.

Contador was obviously gonna be better than he was at the Dauphiné or at the Vuelta, which already says a lot and he's never been that skinny since the Tour 07' when he was young.

He had a similar build up to Froome in 2013, and the brit managed to hit a super peak come the Tour, it's obvious Contador was gonna be super strong looking at his season, probably the best since 09'.

I still take it as a reference point. After he crashed out; he kept a part of the momentum he had going into the Tour and that was enough to demolish at the Vuelta.

I mean If he was not THAT good at the Tour, he would've had a hard time winning the Vuelta with his crash and the little training he did .

Now of course, we don't have anything to back it up, but what's obvious is obvious: He was stronger at the Tour than at the Dauphiné / Vuelta. If you don't believe that then you might as well wonder ' would he have outclimbed Péraud at the Tour? ' because we don't know as well.

 

[peloton]

Today Rogers was the last man, dropped out when there was still 6 km(?) left of the climb.

I've always liked Basso, but hope he's not in the Tour team

 

[rm7]

Re:

Today Rogers was the last man, dropped out when there was still 6 km(?) left of the climb.

I've always liked Basso, but hope he's not in the Tour team

Yeah, Rodgers have improved a little and there is hope that he'll be better at the Tour. But Hernandez and Basso were completely useless as expected.

Actually it could be really good with this mountain train Kiserlovski/Rodgers/Kreuziger/Majka/Contador.

In both the Giro and also today, he clearly missed some good doms to wear his opponent out, so he could put in a stronger attack closer to the top of the climb.

 

[peloton]

Re: Re:

Today Rogers was the last man, dropped out when there was still 6 km(?) left of the climb.

I've always liked Basso, but hope he's not in the Tour team

Yeah, Rodgers have improved a little and there is hope that he'll be better at the Tour. But Hernandez and Basso were completely useless as expected.

Actually it could be really good with this mountain train Kiserlovski/Rodgers/Kreuziger/Majka/Contador.

In both the Giro and also today, he clearly missed some good doms to wear his opponent out, so he could put in a stronger attack closer to the top of the climb.

Losing Bodnar really wasn't good, but then again Tosatto climbed better than I expected at the Giro. He knows the windy/cobble stages better than many others, I hope he's on the Tour team. Tosatto, Bennati and Sagan should help with the frantic 1st week

Majka and the rest skinny ones for the last part

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

Great win. Quintana gave nothing away. Trouble for qman is that he has got to make up time he will lose in the tt. Nibs Is the only one who has not yet shown up. Looks good for Bertie. Froome will have his usual bad day or two. I'm starting to believe that the double is now on for Bertie.

The main issue with the four is that when Chris has the bad day and Alberto wants to put some real estate between them and Froome, no one wants to cooperate. We saw it in last year's Vuelta, we saw it in one of the spring classics.

To me, both Nibali as well as Nairo are a tad wet behind the ears still, and when the time comes to grab the bull by the horns, they don't know what to do. They are always reactionary more than initiative-takers .

In last year's Vuelta, there were three or four times that, had the contenders worked together, could've completely annulled Froome as a threat.

Spot on. Is it only me and you who saw what happened at the vuelta
Froome fan boys are kidding themselves or in denial.
Bertie did enough for me today that convinced me that he can win the tour.
The only thing I would disagree with is Nibs. He is a unknown.
You must admit he looked impressive in last years tour. He climbed really well and never looked weak on any stage.
But if Bertie don't win then I'm happy for Nibs to win.

 

[sacrifice&hardwork]

No Paulinho.

So, I believe the team will be:

Alberto
Rogers
Majka
Bennati
Sagan
Tosatto
Kreuziger
Kiserlovski
Valgren

EDIT: Valgren has been removed from the 'not going' list to the 'going list'. Basso can still be part of the team but hopefully he isn't!

 

[Miburo]

Basso was dropped in the tds when 50 guys were still left. He barely did anything.

50 GUYS!!!! TOUR DU *** SUD

I think basso has some dignity left and will decide to not race it. It's just a disgrace, he was such a great rider but you gotta know when to stop.

 

[The_Cheech]

Re:

Basso was dropped in the tds when 50 guys were still left. He barely did anything.

50 GUYS!!!! TOUR DU **** SUD

I think basso has some dignity left and will decide to not race it. It's just a disgrace, he was such a great rider but you gotta know when to stop.

I would like to say why Basso is still competing with TS, but I'd have to take it to the clinic.

 

[The_Cheech]

Re: Re:

Spot on. Is it only me and you who saw what happened at the vuelta
Froome fan boys are kidding themselves or in denial.
Bertie did enough for me today that convinced me that he can win the tour.
The only thing I would disagree with is Nibs. He is a unknown.
You must admit he looked impressive in last years tour. He climbed really well and never looked weak on any stage.
But if Bertie don't win then I'm happy for Nibs to win.

Nibali winning the TdF with a healthy CF and AC has more to do with sheer luck than anything else. I expect both Sky and TS to be super-duper vigilant during the cobble stone/wind swept stages, so, unless someone drops the ball big time, I don't see him carrying a 1-2 minute advantage to the mountain stages. And I certainly do not see him trading blows with AC, CF and Quintana in the Alps/Pyrenees.

Vincenzo's biggest weapon in his descending ability so... I really do not understand why he doesn't attack downhill a heck of a lot more often. For example, in the Cauterets stage, he has a monumental opportunity to gain A LOT of time on his opponents. If he gets a teammate or two in a breakaway and he does his thing coming down from the Tourmalet, I see him putting 1-2 minutes on everyone else.

 

[TheYouyou7]

Re: Re:

Spot on. Is it only me and you who saw what happened at the vuelta
Froome fan boys are kidding themselves or in denial.
Bertie did enough for me today that convinced me that he can win the tour.
The only thing I would disagree with is Nibs. He is a unknown.
You must admit he looked impressive in last years tour. He climbed really well and never looked weak on any stage.
But if Bertie don't win then I'm happy for Nibs to win.

Nibali winning the TdF with a healthy CF and AC has more to do with sheer luck than anything else. I expect both Sky and TS to be super-duper vigilant during the cobble stone/wind swept stages, so, unless someone drops the ball big time, I don't see him carrying a 1-2 minute advantage to the mountain stages. And I certainly do not see him trading blows with AC, CF and Quintana in the Alps/Pyrenees.

Vincenzo's biggest weapon in his descending ability so... I really do not understand why he doesn't attack downhill a heck of a lot more often. For example, in the Cauterets stage, he has a monumental opportunity to gain A LOT of time on his opponents. If he gets a teammate or two in a breakaway and he does his thing coming down from the Tourmalet, I see him putting 1-2 minutes on everyone else.

Tourmalet's descent in technical only on the first part.

 

[The_Cheech]

Re: Re:

Spot on. Is it only me and you who saw what happened at the vuelta
Froome fan boys are kidding themselves or in denial.
Bertie did enough for me today that convinced me that he can win the tour.
The only thing I would disagree with is Nibs. He is a unknown.
You must admit he looked impressive in last years tour. He climbed really well and never looked weak on any stage.
But if Bertie don't win then I'm happy for Nibs to win.

Nibali winning the TdF with a healthy CF and AC has more to do with sheer luck than anything else. I expect both Sky and TS to be super-duper vigilant during the cobble stone/wind swept stages, so, unless someone drops the ball big time, I don't see him carrying a 1-2 minute advantage to the mountain stages. And I certainly do not see him trading blows with AC, CF and Quintana in the Alps/Pyrenees.

Vincenzo's biggest weapon in his descending ability so... I really do not understand why he doesn't attack downhill a heck of a lot more often. For example, in the Cauterets stage, he has a monumental opportunity to gain A LOT of time on his opponents. If he gets a teammate or two in a breakaway and he does his thing coming down from the Tourmalet, I see him putting 1-2 minutes on everyone else.

Tourmalet's descent in technical only on the first part.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Spot on. Is it only me and you who saw what happened at the vuelta
Froome fan boys are kidding themselves or in denial.
Bertie did enough for me today that convinced me that he can win the tour.
The only thing I would disagree with is Nibs. He is a unknown.
You must admit he looked impressive in last years tour. He climbed really well and never looked weak on any stage.
But if Bertie don't win then I'm happy for Nibs to win.

Nibali winning the TdF with a healthy CF and AC has more to do with sheer luck than anything else. I expect both Sky and TS to be super-duper vigilant during the cobble stone/wind swept stages, so, unless someone drops the ball big time, I don't see him carrying a 1-2 minute advantage to the mountain stages. And I certainly do not see him trading blows with AC, CF and Quintana in the Alps/Pyrenees.

Vincenzo's biggest weapon in his descending ability so... I really do not understand why he doesn't attack downhill a heck of a lot more often. For example, in the Cauterets stage, he has a monumental opportunity to gain A LOT of time on his opponents. If he gets a teammate or two in a breakaway and he does his thing coming down from the Tourmalet, I see him putting 1-2 minutes on everyone else.

Tourmalet's descent in technical only on the first part.

Isn't Tourmalet the descent where you can reach 100km+ cause it has almost no curves at one point. The Great Kenny van Hummel once rode it just by the GPS in the car behind him, making up 2 minutes on the peloton and saving his Tour at that point


Also, is it legal to put guys at the top of the climb with lead bottles to get some serious extra weight to go downhill?

 

[rm7]

I've noticed that both Contador and Majka looks good fitness wise, very strong in ITT's and hilly stages, but they both seems to be a little bit below their true climbing ability.

Could it be a result of their training camp before the season?