I still don't see the teeth gritting on the penultimate climb. And I also don't think he would have Majka set such a tempo, if he was uncomfortable. He was clearly feeling good, and then suddenly totally blew up.
Otherwise it wouldn't make sense to have Majka set such a hard pace, and then try to overtake Froome. I can see his explanation about lacking sugar, but I think that's more wishful thinking on his own part than the truth.
I'll still also point out that he have Basso as his season long roomie and friend, who did the last successfull Giro-Tour in 2005. On the first MTF he was dropped over a minute, and from that point on he was the strongest with Armstrong. I think Basso have also told him what he did that year to recover, and not go into the Tour at a high level.
You could also argue that it's a hard Tour this year... back in the days almost up to stage 10, there were no real tests for the GC guys, so you had 8-9 days to find race rhytm. This year you have to be on point from the start, and Contador obvious can't do that.
Otherwise it wouldn't make sense to have Majka set such a hard pace, and then try to overtake Froome. I can see his explanation about lacking sugar, but I think that's more wishful thinking on his own part than the truth.
I'll still also point out that he have Basso as his season long roomie and friend, who did the last successfull Giro-Tour in 2005. On the first MTF he was dropped over a minute, and from that point on he was the strongest with Armstrong. I think Basso have also told him what he did that year to recover, and not go into the Tour at a high level.
You could also argue that it's a hard Tour this year... back in the days almost up to stage 10, there were no real tests for the GC guys, so you had 8-9 days to find race rhytm. This year you have to be on point from the start, and Contador obvious can't do that.
- Aug 12, 2012
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Re:
No Tony Martin, no Domoulin, no Cancellara, no Wiggins, no Froome, no Nibali,...
Maybe today he could have beated Aru on Huy, but this is le Tour and there are stroger rivals.. he anyway did a mistake by following Froome.
Do you really thought Contador tried this year Giro-Tour becouse he feels very strong or something like that??
He knew Quintana and Nibali didnt racen Il Giro and he had the oportunity to save the season by wining the Giro, He was lucky there Porte and Rigo had serious problems. and Aru was more important than Landa for Astana. Other way difficult to win.
In le Tour he can managed to do it well, with an strongb team and his experience, if he is lucky with crashes he can do something like podium and to say he won Giro and podium in le Tour, if he is not lucky with crashes he has already an excuse.
Yesterday was lucky becouse Nibali was stronger than him, but he put 1:30 on him, it is not just luck, is to know how to handle a team as well, but he is better in GC now than others no for strenght. Purito crashed as well, but I admit he can be better than Purito, Pinot and Quintana on the wind. If his luck continue he could be podium, today Uran crashed, more options.. but Froome and Tejay are lucky as well and Quintana looks stronger for the mountains... no easy.
He did a great ITT in the Giro, at the level of Kiriyenka and Luis leon, but it looks more impressive becouse Rigo and Porte werent at his best, if they would have put 2 minutes on him, maybe thta performance looks worse. 1 minute to krujswick is no so impressive.IamIronMan said:
No Tony Martin, no Domoulin, no Cancellara, no Wiggins, no Froome, no Nibali,...
Maybe today he could have beated Aru on Huy, but this is le Tour and there are stroger rivals.. he anyway did a mistake by following Froome.
Do you really thought Contador tried this year Giro-Tour becouse he feels very strong or something like that??
He knew Quintana and Nibali didnt racen Il Giro and he had the oportunity to save the season by wining the Giro, He was lucky there Porte and Rigo had serious problems. and Aru was more important than Landa for Astana. Other way difficult to win.
In le Tour he can managed to do it well, with an strongb team and his experience, if he is lucky with crashes he can do something like podium and to say he won Giro and podium in le Tour, if he is not lucky with crashes he has already an excuse.
Yesterday was lucky becouse Nibali was stronger than him, but he put 1:30 on him, it is not just luck, is to know how to handle a team as well, but he is better in GC now than others no for strenght. Purito crashed as well, but I admit he can be better than Purito, Pinot and Quintana on the wind. If his luck continue he could be podium, today Uran crashed, more options.. but Froome and Tejay are lucky as well and Quintana looks stronger for the mountains... no easy.
- Aug 12, 2012
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He didnt admit ever Landa was the stronger in the climbs till last day when the road talked so clear than was impossible admit other thing.
He didnt talked even about him any day, irt was like if he didnt ride... in mortirolo stage what landadid so impresive, but he just only talk about kruijwick, saying several times to remark he was the stringer of the stage, when to put 34 second in 4 kms of false flat for a rider like landa showed he climbed Mortirolo very easy and he was the stronger. Of course contador recover than 50 seconds and the help of otherriders in Mortirolo is relative, but 34 second in those 4 kms is a big difference againt 2 riders working to say Landa was the stronger.
He was just following that wheel at the end, allowing Aru to get the second place.
Landa didnt attack in the Mortirolo when he was working and Contador was following different riders wheels in the Mortirolo: Antón, Hesjedal, etc...to come banck at his wheel, but he didnt hesitate next day to attack when Landa crashed. What a big champion!
Contador admited he didnt won the Giro just by legs, he was clever and he is able to do it, but a chamipon looks for his oponent and try to beat him mano a mano and if he lose, he admit.
But that actitude with Landa is just a problemto say aupa Contador again, I have said always the same of this rider, especially since I know some things.
Sciocco said:
He didnt admit ever Landa was the stronger in the climbs till last day when the road talked so clear than was impossible admit other thing.
He didnt talked even about him any day, irt was like if he didnt ride... in mortirolo stage what landadid so impresive, but he just only talk about kruijwick, saying several times to remark he was the stringer of the stage, when to put 34 second in 4 kms of false flat for a rider like landa showed he climbed Mortirolo very easy and he was the stronger. Of course contador recover than 50 seconds and the help of otherriders in Mortirolo is relative, but 34 second in those 4 kms is a big difference againt 2 riders working to say Landa was the stronger.
He was just following that wheel at the end, allowing Aru to get the second place.
Landa didnt attack in the Mortirolo when he was working and Contador was following different riders wheels in the Mortirolo: Antón, Hesjedal, etc...to come banck at his wheel, but he didnt hesitate next day to attack when Landa crashed. What a big champion!
Contador admited he didnt won the Giro just by legs, he was clever and he is able to do it, but a chamipon looks for his oponent and try to beat him mano a mano and if he lose, he admit.
But that actitude with Landa is just a problemto say aupa Contador again, I have said always the same of this rider, especially since I know some things.
- Aug 12, 2012
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I dont know how is here, but in Spain lot of Contador fans put ugly nicknames to Froome and say for sure he is a doper.
Here I didnt see very different things, but I admit here contador has fans that just like contador and dont attack other riders, and that is good.
But to say objetives things is not to attack.. if I say he i a lier is eeasy to admit when he said he didnt see any problem with andy and the chaien when he passed just at his side and he attacked just in that point in al the climb.
He needed had to put any ezcuse, he is free to attack when ever, maybe is not the most polite for a true champion ti attack just in that point, but is OK, to lie and dont admit that is not OK for me. and to call him a lier is not to attack, it is just a fact. he used to lie frequenty, I wont ride la Vuelta, I have a broken bone when is no broken,... (I never doped it was the same for aeverybody in the last era and that is not really his fault, but he was in an spainsh BS program that talks about spanish famous people to talk about that...)
When I was acredited in la Vuelta I had to talk always well about Contador, and I did that way and I wrote about his nice victory in Fuente De very well later in my blog, but this is a forum and I am free.
LaFlorecita said:
I dont know how is here, but in Spain lot of Contador fans put ugly nicknames to Froome and say for sure he is a doper.
Here I didnt see very different things, but I admit here contador has fans that just like contador and dont attack other riders, and that is good.
But to say objetives things is not to attack.. if I say he i a lier is eeasy to admit when he said he didnt see any problem with andy and the chaien when he passed just at his side and he attacked just in that point in al the climb.
He needed had to put any ezcuse, he is free to attack when ever, maybe is not the most polite for a true champion ti attack just in that point, but is OK, to lie and dont admit that is not OK for me. and to call him a lier is not to attack, it is just a fact. he used to lie frequenty, I wont ride la Vuelta, I have a broken bone when is no broken,... (I never doped it was the same for aeverybody in the last era and that is not really his fault, but he was in an spainsh BS program that talks about spanish famous people to talk about that...)
When I was acredited in la Vuelta I had to talk always well about Contador, and I did that way and I wrote about his nice victory in Fuente De very well later in my blog, but this is a forum and I am free.
- Aug 30, 2010
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This is not the first time Alberto has not looked good at the beginning of a GT and he almost always improves as time goes on. Granted this is somewhat unchartered territory for him but FFS it is only Stage 3. And Froome looked on the limit today anyway. He had huge grimace on his face coming to the line.
Re:
Taxus ignored! 😀 😀 😀
Hey thanks, I just realized there is such a feature. At least most of Taxus' rubbish will be ignored, except when he's quoted. To liken Contador to Armstrong is probably the stupidest thing I've read on here, including in the clinic.mr. tibbs said:
Taxus ignored! 😀 😀 😀
Re:
He hasn't looked good in the first 3 stages. He better turn it around soon, but I don't see it happening.veganrob said:
Re:
a) Winning the Giro was pretty impressive wasn't it? Or was that not good enough for you?
b) Froome is 30. Is he on the right side of it? And seriously, two years difference in age??? Hey Quintana is 25, he must be much better than Froome right?
Oh yea, who was that guy who stomped all over Froome in the Vuelta? Alberto somebody right?
IamIronMan said:
a) Winning the Giro was pretty impressive wasn't it? Or was that not good enough for you?
b) Froome is 30. Is he on the right side of it? And seriously, two years difference in age??? Hey Quintana is 25, he must be much better than Froome right?
Oh yea, who was that guy who stomped all over Froome in the Vuelta? Alberto somebody right?
Re: Re:
I guess if I were him (ha!, if I were Alberto Contador!) I would have gone all in for one more TdF win, instead of trying an-almost impossible feat. Like it or not, and regardless of what knowledgeable cycling fans think, the Tour is the biggest bike race in the world. He may choose to focus on the Tour in his final season, in which case, it's probably ok that he tried the double in his penultimate season. However, he hasn't shown any of his "old" form this season, and he's not the kind of rider who "magically" turns it around during a big race. He may hold his form while others tire, or he may even steadily improve, but there will be no sudden improvement that allow him to shed Froome. It's pretty clear he's at a level below Froome.
Jspear said:
I guess if I were him (ha!, if I were Alberto Contador!) I would have gone all in for one more TdF win, instead of trying an-almost impossible feat. Like it or not, and regardless of what knowledgeable cycling fans think, the Tour is the biggest bike race in the world. He may choose to focus on the Tour in his final season, in which case, it's probably ok that he tried the double in his penultimate season. However, he hasn't shown any of his "old" form this season, and he's not the kind of rider who "magically" turns it around during a big race. He may hold his form while others tire, or he may even steadily improve, but there will be no sudden improvement that allow him to shed Froome. It's pretty clear he's at a level below Froome.
Re: Re:
a- I already explained that. Did you watch the Giro? What did he do, apart from the ITT that was impressive? Yes, he won the race, but against a field that did not include Nibali, Quintana, Froome, TVG, Talansky, Valverde, Purito, and on and on... Who finished 2nd and 3rd, a second tier guy in Aru and a "nobody" in Landa (who, BTW was better than Contador on all climbing stages). The win was impressive, his form in it was not.
b- Contador has many, many, many years of racing in his legs, and it is showing. Do you honestly believe Contador is showing anything close to what he was when he was in his 20's? Also, this is not the Clinic, but Froome is an entire other subject, I believe in him as much as I do Santa Claus. But anyway, Froome is not the one who is trying to both the Giro and the Tour in the same year.
Last year is last year, and as I said, Froome comes good for one race, just like Armstrong did, and for the same reasons, IMO. So Contador beating him was impressive, but it would have been much more impressive in the Tour, when Froome's "magic" was in full effect. It would be great if he could pull off the double, but adding up everything I've seen this season from him, and how tough this Tour is going to be, I just don't see it happening. Just trying to be honest.
richwagmn said:
a- I already explained that. Did you watch the Giro? What did he do, apart from the ITT that was impressive? Yes, he won the race, but against a field that did not include Nibali, Quintana, Froome, TVG, Talansky, Valverde, Purito, and on and on... Who finished 2nd and 3rd, a second tier guy in Aru and a "nobody" in Landa (who, BTW was better than Contador on all climbing stages). The win was impressive, his form in it was not.
b- Contador has many, many, many years of racing in his legs, and it is showing. Do you honestly believe Contador is showing anything close to what he was when he was in his 20's? Also, this is not the Clinic, but Froome is an entire other subject, I believe in him as much as I do Santa Claus. But anyway, Froome is not the one who is trying to both the Giro and the Tour in the same year.
Last year is last year, and as I said, Froome comes good for one race, just like Armstrong did, and for the same reasons, IMO. So Contador beating him was impressive, but it would have been much more impressive in the Tour, when Froome's "magic" was in full effect. It would be great if he could pull off the double, but adding up everything I've seen this season from him, and how tough this Tour is going to be, I just don't see it happening. Just trying to be honest.
Re: Re:
Winning two GTs in 6 months time is pretty damn impressive. One day does not a GT make. Ever.
I don't believe Contador is showing us his Verbier magic because of reasons I can't discuss here. We honestly aren't seeing performances like that very much any more. Probably for reasons you and I both agree on.
Yes, doing the Giro/TDF is just about impossible. But I've read the same statement from several DSes, that AC is probably the ONLY rider who could pull it off today. So he must not be aging as much as you think (or the people running teams don't know anything).
You seem completely sure that Froome has this in the bag. After three days of racing, I believe that opinion is hugely premature.
And Contador deserves far more respect than you seem willing to give him.
IamIronMan said:
Winning two GTs in 6 months time is pretty damn impressive. One day does not a GT make. Ever.
I don't believe Contador is showing us his Verbier magic because of reasons I can't discuss here. We honestly aren't seeing performances like that very much any more. Probably for reasons you and I both agree on.
Yes, doing the Giro/TDF is just about impossible. But I've read the same statement from several DSes, that AC is probably the ONLY rider who could pull it off today. So he must not be aging as much as you think (or the people running teams don't know anything).
You seem completely sure that Froome has this in the bag. After three days of racing, I believe that opinion is hugely premature.
And Contador deserves far more respect than you seem willing to give him.
- Jan 25, 2010
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So much pessimism over a few "bad" days of Contador.
He is one of the GOATs.Just like Indurain. He almost retires. He'll be missed. Prepare for some boring races after he's gone.
I say he is still in the fight. If at the end he loses, he'll do so like a true champion, he'll go down swinging.
He is one of the GOATs.Just like Indurain. He almost retires. He'll be missed. Prepare for some boring races after he's gone.
I say he is still in the fight. If at the end he loses, he'll do so like a true champion, he'll go down swinging.
- Apr 2, 2009
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Re: Re:
I'm going to argue that that's just not the case, in the sense my "opinion," unfortunately, is physiological fact.
I'm looking at the photo in today's la Gazzetta dello Sport of Froome blasting up the Mur with a distanced Contador behind and the comparative faces tell the whole story.
Even more than before, these days weight makes a huge difference. This is why Sky, for better or for worse, have become so maniacal about it and judging from the photos of Froome and the way he rides, the effects are self-evident.
This is why I can't fathom what Contador has been thinking, with all due respect mind you. Because after 2013 he seemed to have gotten the message, judging by 2014's performances and how he showed up at the Tour then.
Personally, I think it's a matter of mental rigor and the type of soldier like discipline off the bike that he lacks compared to Chris Froome and, unfortunately, his main competition has upped the bar so considerably that he can't get away with his undeniable talent like he did as a younger rider.
I think he was already on the wrong foot at the Giro with his weight and for the Tour, at least on the face of it, I expect him to be getting dropped like a stone in the mountains, which is a huge blow to his career.
Carols said:
I'm going to argue that that's just not the case, in the sense my "opinion," unfortunately, is physiological fact.
I'm looking at the photo in today's la Gazzetta dello Sport of Froome blasting up the Mur with a distanced Contador behind and the comparative faces tell the whole story.
Even more than before, these days weight makes a huge difference. This is why Sky, for better or for worse, have become so maniacal about it and judging from the photos of Froome and the way he rides, the effects are self-evident.
This is why I can't fathom what Contador has been thinking, with all due respect mind you. Because after 2013 he seemed to have gotten the message, judging by 2014's performances and how he showed up at the Tour then.
Personally, I think it's a matter of mental rigor and the type of soldier like discipline off the bike that he lacks compared to Chris Froome and, unfortunately, his main competition has upped the bar so considerably that he can't get away with his undeniable talent like he did as a younger rider.
I think he was already on the wrong foot at the Giro with his weight and for the Tour, at least on the face of it, I expect him to be getting dropped like a stone in the mountains, which is a huge blow to his career.
- May 15, 2011
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Re:
I think, through all the bad grammar and spelling, I've identified the issue, but it's Clinic territory.
I doubt it's just Landa, before the Giro Taxus also posted loads of these illegible hate posts.Kwibus said:
I think, through all the bad grammar and spelling, I've identified the issue, but it's Clinic territory.
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Re:
I think if Contador had simply gotten himself into last year's shape, as we saw at the Vuelta he can follow Froome's accellerations and still have the punch to drop him. Notwithstanding Froome's crash in last year's Dauphine, Contador still showed he can blast away like he used to and I think we would have possibly seen similar feats at the 2014 Tour had they both stayed upright.
The point is that Froome has managed to get himself where he needs to be for the war consistently since 2012 around these parts, but Contador, no, he has been up and down with his form. Though I can't understand how, given last year's example - the result of 2013's lesson - he and DeJonge could have botched it so badly this season.
I agree with you, he has been performing undertone the entire season and, for a while at least, I was waiting for the moment when his form would come up significantly, but that hasn't happened. For this reason I think at this point it's too late and frankly I'm left wondering why one earth they'd have risked another humiliation, the moment when it became evident that Contador would not be up to an acceptable level.
The weird thing is that this seems to be the case with Team Tinkoff in general, with Basso being the most glaring example. I realize this seems far fetched, but it seems that the team hasn't taken seriously enough what it would have cost them to perform up to their highest level, since anything less was never going to cut it.
IamIronMan said:
I think if Contador had simply gotten himself into last year's shape, as we saw at the Vuelta he can follow Froome's accellerations and still have the punch to drop him. Notwithstanding Froome's crash in last year's Dauphine, Contador still showed he can blast away like he used to and I think we would have possibly seen similar feats at the 2014 Tour had they both stayed upright.
The point is that Froome has managed to get himself where he needs to be for the war consistently since 2012 around these parts, but Contador, no, he has been up and down with his form. Though I can't understand how, given last year's example - the result of 2013's lesson - he and DeJonge could have botched it so badly this season.
I agree with you, he has been performing undertone the entire season and, for a while at least, I was waiting for the moment when his form would come up significantly, but that hasn't happened. For this reason I think at this point it's too late and frankly I'm left wondering why one earth they'd have risked another humiliation, the moment when it became evident that Contador would not be up to an acceptable level.
The weird thing is that this seems to be the case with Team Tinkoff in general, with Basso being the most glaring example. I realize this seems far fetched, but it seems that the team hasn't taken seriously enough what it would have cost them to perform up to their highest level, since anything less was never going to cut it.
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