Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[LaFlorecita]

I doubt anyone will want to try anyway, with PdB the day after. Unless there's a group ahead to bridge to.

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

Is it? The strongest rider almost always wins the Grand Tour. Especially the Tour. On the rare occasions he doesn't, the weaker rider is only marginally weaker.

Wow really? That's some mindblowing stuff man

But if the stronger rider is not so strong on a particular day than the weaker rider and yet on that day the stronger rider still wins then that means the weaker rider has won and the stronger rider has lost even though he his the weaker rider throughout the rest of the tour.
Do you think teams who could manipulate time and space would be regarded as cheats.

 

[cellardoor]

If anyone, like me, has been getting a bit depressed reading this thread - the antidote is to read the Nibali thread

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

What we show at the Vuelta was that Contador got a very good preparation as he rode 8 days in le Tour, rest 2 weeks and train for one month previous la Vuelta.

What we saw in la Vuelta is that he lied about his participation and his injuries and his shape, with the help of the media.

What we saw in la Vuelta is that Froome said he was there just thinking in this Tour, becouse he needed a complete GT in his legs in 2015.

He was trying to win last years Vuelta. If he hadn't been trying, he wouldn't have been 2nd.

What we saw in la Vuelta is that Froome did a mistake in the ITT and he started too strong, exploded, losed time an later he did better in the last Km that Contador. Uran was better than Contador and clearly better than Froome (in time) so it was not a super performance from Contador, but not the normal one by Froome.

Knowing how to time your effort in a itt is part of racing. It doesn't change the fact that Contador beat Froome. Just except that. Also losing to Uran isn't something to be ashamed of. His itt was pretty good in 2014.

Whay we show in la Vuelta is that he needed to attack and put time, and Contador was in a similar strengh, and he has a better aceleration, so difficult to drop Contador.

What we saw is that, that way Froome dopred Contador just in the steppest climbs, as Camperona, where to follow wheels is no so important.

IMO SKY didnt ride well the 2 harder mountains stages. When you are similarto Contador in strenth becouse he had a better preparation you cant just put an strong pace, even in a hard climb as Ancares, Contador need to have a previous big effort, not just final climb.

What point are you trying to make here? What we saw is that Contador (for the most part) was stronger than Froome. Froome can be beaten you know.

What we saw is that Contador was in aa great shape, but Valverde came from le Tour, to win San Sebastian, and he was close even when in the first days he was just working for Quintana and doing stupid attacks like in Cordoba and didnt take any bonus...

What are you trying to say here? Do you think Valverde could have beaten AC if he had tried harder?

It has his merit to start training in Lugano and with that determination to go to the Vuelta to win after to have a fissure in his bone, and he was at a hiogh level, he won, congrats, but if you want to believe all that stuff that Froome prepare la Vuelta at the same level that contador did, you can do it, but consider that there is another point of view of all that story...

Do you have some sort of special insight into this "story?" Why don't you share it with links to prove your point....Froome had more time to prepare for the Vuelta. He has no one but himself to blame if he didn't use that time wisely.

The story is not that Contador did the amazing thing to win la Vuelta to froome after to have an important injury just training hard a week... and for that he believe he can get the double..and he failed is becouse it very difficult.

What Contador did was pretty impressive whether you admit it or not. He came back from a pretty bad leg injury to win the Vuelta beating Froome. Sorry, I don't fully understand your wording....are you saying AC failed the double? Has the Tour finished yet?

I respect you think like that, but I like this sport, and I am going to answer to that world of lies that Contador create about his acts. He is like a wizard that know how to put people at his side...(with all the respect is what I think, and well based)

If you are the best, go to the Tour and show you are the best. if he do, he will have my congrats and all my consideration. To be close to Froome after to win il Giro could even be enough for me. But close is not 5 minutes at the end of the Tour, close is maybe not a question of time, but of performance. He wanst close to Froome (or that is not close for me) in Huy, but the Tour is long.

Yes he has duped all these people into liking him with his magic wand. Get real dude. Do you really believe that Froome is a more honest chap?

AC has done the Tour and proved that he is the best. He is at the point in his career where winning just another Tour won't do it for him. His palmares are so impressive (compared to someone like Froome for example) that he wants to go for the Giro-Tour double to motivate himself.

I dont know how to quote your way.

Thanks to argue.

Of course Froome wanted to win, the same when Contador go to basque country or Tirreno, but are races thinking in le Tour as well an objetive, but the big objetive is not to win that races. Both of them are very competitive and that is good for cycling. Both of them try to shine whatever they go, and that is something that talk well about them and his talent. Maybe Andy (some people know me as a fan of hi, but it is not true) wasnt so good and needed an especify preparation.

I dont put in doubt Contador beat Froome in la Vuelta.

But Spain is the country of Contador, and Contador has a big oportunity to show he can beat Froome. He had his doubtsnormal,, and it is meritory he did, but IMO he was the best motivated (Olé for him) and prepared. Froome didnt race any race before, from Dauphine to la Vuelta, just 3 days in le Tour, it is not the same that Contador, 8 days, includidng a medium mountain stage.

Valverde came form le Tour, maybe tired, or maybe no, but it is not the best preparation,...Purito peak for the Giro, crashed, rode le Tour in soft mode, but all the Tour and getting some results in the mountains, and for that was difficult to see him at his best... Quintana crashed, Urán again sick, but as I said, he was better in the ITT and close in Valdelinares. it was a good victory for Contador but we didnt see at his rivals at his best. That doesnt change the fact Contador won, and beat Froome. For me they were similar in strenght, but Contador won, I just talking about what that means, and IMO it is not that Contador is better than Froome.
if you consider that Contador losing time some days with Froome and sucking his whels in Ancares and Farrapona is that he was superior is your opinion, for me no. But O admit, Froome wanst stronger, and he wanst in a bad shape and he was trying to win from the begining and he had the oportunity to get ready better than Contador by racing some race before and training as hard as Contador did in Lugano when always said those days, he woudnt race la Vuelta. merit that Contador, YES, but does that showed contador at his best his better in a GT that Froome at his best? NO.

What I tried to say with Valverde is that in a race with hot and racing properly, his level globaly, considering bonus and all stages is similar to Contador, or at least is that Valverde showed, so the level os contadormaybe was not different to now, but some of his rivals maybe now are better.

The injury of Froome and the injury of Contador Imo were similar in term of disturbing to get ready for a race.. Froome got first his injury, so he has more time to heal and start forst training. but froome needed a race before la Vuelta, just 3 days in le Tour is nothing, for contador 8 is OK... merit of Contador... all that showed ambition and capacity from contador, yes, but Imo as well the desire to beat Froomein the only GT he thought was possible and use that as escuse he is better.. and if now Froome beat him, he has the escuse of il Giro. Acording the palmares contador did in the past era, some people will think contador is better than froome, and others froome is, he put argument to think he is better... so, he is clever.

IMO, as I said, he is just 32, not 35 as Valverde or 41 as his team mate Tossato, he can be tired to compete in cycling, but phisically at his best and with a good experience... if he is the best, go to the best race with the best preparation you consider, as you did last year, and try to beat Froome, Quintana, etc...As I said, if he is close to them after to win the Giro, I will aplause with all. But close is not to be like in 2013, even finishing 4th. I will aplause if he use his capacity to read the race and think...but i will aplause if he has a similar level to the best.

He said he doesnt have the spark of the Giro, I can admit that is normal, but he think he can be regular all the Giro and to be at a good level.

Intxausti said he wanted to be in the podium of Dauphiné this year with the spark of the Giro, and he almost did.. In dauohine that spark last till the last 2 days, is always like that in all the riders, but I admit that for the Tour you lose that spark. you won maybe some advantage respect opther riders that dont have a GT in his legs, but lose that spark...

Anyway when he almost won in Muur de Bretagne in 2011, he rode and won the Giro, and he had that spark... and when he droped Andy in Gap (same climb this year will climb, I think, a second categorized) he had that spark...but when he losed 4 minutes in Galibier what not a question of spark, he hadnt that level and regularity he thinks now he can have after Giro. (I dont Know why Alberto say this is a new experience for him )

Cheers!

 

[LaFlorecita]

IMO, as I said, he is just 32, not 35 as Valverde or 41 as his team mate Tossato, he can be tired to compete in cycling, but phisically at his best and with a good experience... if he is the best, go to the best race with the best preparation you consider, as you did last year, and try to beat Froome, Quintana, etc...

See Taxus, this is the issue... YOU think, if Contador is the best, he should only focus on the biggest race and win that race. But that doesn't mean CONTADOR feels the same way about it. You argue that Contador knows he is not good enough to win the Tour, and that's why he went to the Giro, but that is NOT correct because that is solely based on YOUR assumption that if you are the best, you only focus on the Tour. That is NOT how Contador feels. So you CANNOT say he rode the Giro to have an excuse when he gets beaten.

Is that finally clear?

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Flo, all I said was what Ive always said. Don't count your chickens before they hatch. One can't expect Contador to have a guaranteed minute on the downhill because that's not how cycling works. ANd Froome does look like he will have the advantage, which is what every single person who saw the first week thinks.

Don't get where the accusation of bitterness comes from. What the hell is bitter about saying that.

The other post I made was criticising the team for not doing their job because if you go for a Giro Tour double you need to be squeezing every second out of every opportunity. This is common sense really, and I think everyone has said it at some point.

Don't see what you find so upsetting.

Do you think the team decided not to take any time on Froome?

It's only failure if you "decide" to lose?

The team has had one job for the entire season. Do everything to aid contador in the giro tour double. They've been given a large budget, top riders, allegedly top staff. In the giro they didn't do their job. But that's ok, conta still won the giro, even without them. But now he needs them for the tour. And still nothing. Sky are doing their job. Saxo aren't doing theirs. Just not good enough so far.

Whether they lost the 30 seconds deliberately or not is irrelevant. All that matters is that they lost it.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Hitch, you're doing my head in.

In a single post, you manage to say that 1, time gain is never guaranteed, and 2, Tinkoff Saxo is not doing their job because they should have gained time on Froome.
What in the world are you smoking?
And the bitterness continues...

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

Flo, all I said was what Ive always said. Don't count your chickens before they hatch. One can't expect Contador to have a guaranteed minute on the downhill because that's not how cycling works. ANd Froome does look like he will have the advantage, which is what every single person who saw the first week thinks.

Don't get where the accusation of bitterness comes from. What the hell is bitter about saying that.

The other post I made was criticising the team for not doing their job because if you go for a Giro Tour double you need to be squeezing every second out of every opportunity. This is common sense really, and I think everyone has said it at some point.

Don't see what you find so upsetting.

Do you think the team decided not to take any time on Froome?

It's only failure if you "decide" to lose?

The team has had one job for the entire season. Do everything to aid contador in the giro tour double. They've been given a large budget, top riders, allegedly top staff. In the giro they didn't do their job. But that's ok, conta still won the giro, even without them. But now he needs them for the tour. And still nothing. Sky are doing their job. Saxo aren't doing theirs. Just not good enough so far.

Whether they lost the 30 seconds deliberately or not is irrelevant. All that matters is that they lost it.

Yeah, I was surprised when I heard Basso say that the first time he rode the TTT route was on the day

They certainly had the team for a better time, but they didn't pace it correctly nor were they well-drilled enough. Disappointing, but at least the team did good to distance Nairo and Nibali on stage 2 so that they will have to attack as well.

 

[Publicus]

Re: Re:

Flo, all I said was what Ive always said. Don't count your chickens before they hatch. One can't expect Contador to have a guaranteed minute on the downhill because that's not how cycling works. ANd Froome does look like he will have the advantage, which is what every single person who saw the first week thinks.

Don't get where the accusation of bitterness comes from. What the hell is bitter about saying that.

The other post I made was criticising the team for not doing their job because if you go for a Giro Tour double you need to be squeezing every second out of every opportunity. This is common sense really, and I think everyone has said it at some point.

Don't see what you find so upsetting.

Do you think the team decided not to take any time on Froome?

It's only failure if you "decide" to lose?

The team has had one job for the entire season. Do everything to aid contador in the giro tour double. They've been given a large budget, top riders, allegedly top staff. In the giro they didn't do their job. But that's ok, conta still won the giro, even without them. But now he needs them for the tour. And still nothing. Sky are doing their job. Saxo aren't doing theirs. Just not good enough so far.

Whether they lost the 30 seconds deliberately or not is irrelevant. All that matters is that they lost it.

Yeah, I was surprised when I heard Basso say that the first time he rode the TTT route was on the day

They certainly had the team for a better time, but they didn't pace it correctly nor were they well-drilled enough. Disappointing, but at least the team did good to distance Nairo and Nibali on stage 2 so that they will have to attack as well.

i hadn't heard that. That's a major fail by Tinkoff Saxo's management, given the importance of the stage.

 

[rm7]

They asked Riis about it in danish Tv2 studio... "we've heard that SKY meet at this TTT start place one month ago and rode it at full gas several times, but Ivan Basso just told us today that he only saw the route this morning.. is that good enough management from Tinkoff-Saxo?"

Riis had a wtf face haha, he laughed and was like "ahh that's a little inapproriate quetion" since he left the management position, and that would be his responsibility normally. He gave a very diplomatic answer, but it was clear for everybody to see that he meant "of course they should have ridden the route several times before, and if I was in change they would have done that". He didn't look impressed at all.

It is bad management from the Tinkoff Saxo team, that they haven't done a TTT together at the specifik route before.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

Flo, all I said was what Ive always said. Don't count your chickens before they hatch. One can't expect Contador to have a guaranteed minute on the downhill because that's not how cycling works. ANd Froome does look like he will have the advantage, which is what every single person who saw the first week thinks.

Don't get where the accusation of bitterness comes from. What the hell is bitter about saying that.

The other post I made was criticising the team for not doing their job because if you go for a Giro Tour double you need to be squeezing every second out of every opportunity. This is common sense really, and I think everyone has said it at some point.

Don't see what you find so upsetting.

Do you think the team decided not to take any time on Froome?

It's only failure if you "decide" to lose?

The team has had one job for the entire season. Do everything to aid contador in the giro tour double. They've been given a large budget, top riders, allegedly top staff. In the giro they didn't do their job. But that's ok, conta still won the giro, even without them. But now he needs them for the tour. And still nothing. Sky are doing their job. Saxo aren't doing theirs. Just not good enough so far.

Whether they lost the 30 seconds deliberately or not is irrelevant. All that matters is that they lost it.

Yeah, I was surprised when I heard Basso say that the first time he rode the TTT route was on the day

They certainly had the team for a better time, but they didn't pace it correctly nor were they well-drilled enough. Disappointing, but at least the team did good to distance Nairo and Nibali on stage 2 so that they will have to attack as well.

uhhhh well

 

[casati]

This maybe on another thread but Basso has been diagnosed with testicular cancer, maybe that explains a little of his lack of form. Sad to see this.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

How do you ***edited by mod*** think when you were making fun of Ivan he had cancer?

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

How do you ***edited by mod*** think when you were making fun of Ivan he had cancer?

Ridiculous post. Nobody knew what was wrong with him. We cannot criticise anyone anymore as they may or may not get diagnosed with a life threatening disease then?

 

[Eshnar]

Drop it Zam... 99% of the peloton gets made fun of.

 

[moi123]

Saw the press conference and at one moment Alberto was in tears. Says a lot about him. Very emotional.

I hope Ivan Basso makes a full recovery he always struck me as a gentlemen.

 

[Carols]

Saw the press conference and at one moment Alberto was in tears. Says a lot about him. Very emotional.

I hope Ivan Basso makes a full recovery he always struck me as a gentlemen.

They are both Gentleman! Recover well Ivan and be strong.

Alberto is a class act. He knows what it is like to be dreadfully ill and obviously has a depth of warmth and caring for others.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Re:

Drop it Zam... 99% of the peloton gets made fun of.

Ivan The Great should not be made fun of.

 

[Pantani Attacks]

Re:

Apparently Contador was crying in the press conference. Touching.

His Tour more than less done with that too.

 

[Singer01]

i have no idea how this affects a team or contador in particular. but if he rides into form, this little bit of extra motivation might make all the difference. we saw how casartelli inspired lance.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Apparently Contador was crying in the press conference. Touching.

His Tour more than less done with that too.

Nah... Basso would not have added too much. If you were counting on Basso to bring Contador the victory, well...

 

[Pantani Attacks]

Saw the press conference and at one moment Alberto was in tears. Says a lot about him. Very emotional.

I hope Ivan Basso makes a full recovery he always struck me as a gentlemen.

Have you a link?

 

[Captain_Obvious]

Re: Re:

Apparently Contador was crying in the press conference. Touching.

His Tour more than less done with that too.

No.

...


I wish Basso a speedy recovery. It sounds like that they discovered the cancer at an early stage. Let us hope. I too wonder how much of his energy was secretly being wasted in order to combat the tumor.

 

[Pantani Attacks]

Very nice picture. They must be very close lately considering they are both legends of cycling, both known for their climbing and the fact they have rode a GT plus a week or so of another together recently.

 

[perico]

Re:

Very nice picture. They must be very close lately considering they are both legends of cycling, both known for their climbing and the fact they have rode a GT plus a week or so of another together recently.

They've had a bromance going on all year. It was refreshing to see a rider of Basso's stature and palmares completely dedicate everything to his team this year. I never questioned his selection for the tour team this year because he seemed to be as much a leader mentally as he is on the road.