Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

He shouldn't have targeted the double.

What if he hadn't? Would he have had more motivation?

God thing he targeted the double. At least that way he won the Giro. He would still not have beaten Froome had he focused on the Tour alone.

Eh i wouldnt say that immediately, froome for sure has the edge. But Contador's 2014 season was really strong, and he could hold on to froome in the dauphine.

 

[rhubroma]

It isn't about what he's achieved in the past. It's about how much Froome has dominated him in the only race that counts in terms of who is the strongest. The winner of the Giro and the Vuelta isn't the strongest, no matter how many times when he gets clobbered at the Tour. And Froome isn't just barely winning. He assassinated the Tour today! Just like he did in 2013 against Contador, Quintana et all. Contador has faced him in the Tour twice and been beaten with a club. Not good for the legacy.

If Contador wasn't up for the fight, he should have stayed away or focused differently for it. This is not the 80's.

 

[Metabolol]

This tour is over for him. He needs to go for one more monster peak at next year's TDF and then do the Vuelta after that. He is starting to fade though so the question is if he can do it even if he prepares for it.

As for the discussion about his legacy I think his legacy will be just fine. It doesn't really interest me but people will remember him for his wins just like they do with all other sporting champions.

 

[arvc40]

Re: Re:

He shouldn't have targeted the double.

What if he hadn't? Would he have had more motivation?

God thing he targeted the double. At least that way he won the Giro. He would still not have beaten Froome had he focused on the Tour alone.

That's a fantasy opinion

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Re: Re:

Not that I think he will be able to match Froomey this July, but surely this must have been an off day. Loosing to Gallopin says it all. The numbers before the tour must have been better, or else I can't see why he even started the race. Same goes for Nibali

He just isn't in good shape. Or was Mur de Huy also an off-day? And what about Mur de Bretagne for Nibali?

That is what I am trying to understand. The Astana camp has been full of sickness, so that might be an explanation for why Nibali has detoriated to such an extent, but AC MUST hav known what would happen to him this tour if his numbers weren't better than hat he has shown so far.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

But Indurain won 5 Tours in a row! Then Riis was a one shot canon! Come on Froome has made Contador look silly and that is not in keeping with what he has achieved. It's as if he realized that he could not maintain the rythym so deflect attention away from that by going for the double. Ok going for the double is admirable, yes, but how can he have shown up in the Tour like this. It is pathetic given all the "big plans."

Didn't Contador win something like 6 GTs in a row?

The Tour is another level though. Look I'm not saying this to be annoying, but the Tour is what matters. At this rate, besides, Froome will go on to win several others and in ways that defy logic. Alberto had his 2009, but this is a whole different match.

Ok, but you have to take into account that Contador was prevented from riding the Tour in two of his best years. Indurain had a 5 year period at the top and then he was done. A 5 year period would take Contador to 2011, roughly when Froome emerged on the scene. Contador was an early developer who has potentially seen his best days (whether due to age or motivation), whereas Froome is a late developer who's in his peak years.

Of course, all true and correct. But Froome is just on whole different level and frankly Contador is way too big to be humiliated like this. Honestly as soon as I saw him at the start, I knew it was going to be a massacre. And that's what it has become.

Contador has been so out classed that one is left to wonder (really) what the f is going on.

 

[yaco]

Posted earlier that the Giro/TDF is a hard task - Especially seeing that the Giro is a tougher race than the TDF - You could possibly do both if the order was changed. And the 2015 Giro was a tough race - A very tough race.

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

He shouldn't have targeted the double.

What if he hadn't? Would he have had more motivation?

Who knows?
He obviously pressurized himself too much. Or was it Olga?
What Riis says?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Rhubroma - none of us is happy to see him humiliated, however it is all part of the sport. Even the very best get beaten at times, and in every rider's career there's a point they start to decline.

 

[sunnyIce]

What a whiny bunch of wankers on this forum? Give up?! I hope the real AC doesn't come remotely close to considering suggestions similar to those from this forums; from his team, his staff, his family, from fans, from wherever.

Go mano and finish the Tour. Fight for the podium and take on Quintana. Anything can happen. Heck! Tony Martin crashed on a flat section with nobody around him ffs!!! Not that he should win the tour that way (for sure not), but you gotto race till the end man. Thats how it goes.

 

[Jelantik]

Contador was having a really bad day. He said he wasn't good at all day. I guess, the Giro finally took toll on him as everyone expected. But this is about mental as well, how good he can overcome it. Judging from Sean Yates comment, looks like they can forget the first place. Maybe stage win would be nice or some consolation of podium (even though contador doesn't care) But it looks good for visual in front of the fans eyes. Froome and sky were superb. Period. As much as I wasn't the fan, but they did smash everyone to the pieces today. Even Tejay who thinks he can match froome after dauphene and has been training to sustain froome's accelartion? smashed to piece like a cheap china porcelain by froome. Just like he smashed of the rest of the struggling 4 What a performance. The next stages will be about who will the best in bouncing back? I hope AC will bounce back. Tour isn't over yet.

As far as Nibali, wow.. i was not expecting he was dispatched in some 10+km. He either getting sick (rumour that Astana is plagued by sickness).. dunno. But in hindsight, we will see Nibali racing again next year all year long.. yeah. (like what he did in the last 2 years.. meh). And the GIRO!!!..

 

[rhubroma]

Re:

Rhubroma - none of us is happy to see him humiliated, however it is all part of the sport. Even the very best get beaten at times, and in every rider's career there's a point they start to decline.

I understand that, but he's only 32 and had an excellent year last year.

Look I don't really care in the greater scheme of things, however, what does bother me is that he actually thought he could win both against this Froome and show up for the war like this. This he could have spared us.

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Re:

But Indurain won 5 Tours in a row! Then Riis was a one shot canon! Come on Froome has made Contador look silly and that is not in keeping with what he has achieved. It's as if he realized that he could not maintain the rythym so deflect attention away from that by going for the double. Ok going for the double is admirable, yes, but how can he have shown up in the Tour like this. It is pathetic given all the "big plans."

Didn't Contador win something like 6 GTs in a row?

The Tour is another level though. Look I'm not saying this to be annoying, but the Tour is what matters. At this rate, besides, Froome will go on to win several others and in ways that defy logic. Alberto had his 2009, but this is a whole different match.

Ok, but you have to take into account that Contador was prevented from riding the Tour in two of his best years. Indurain had a 5 year period at the top and then he was done. A 5 year period would take Contador to 2011, roughly when Froome emerged on the scene. Contador was an early developer who has potentially seen his best days (whether due to age or motivation), whereas Froome is a late developer who's in his peak years.

Of course, all true and correct. But Froome is just on whole different level and frankly Contador is way too big to be humiliated like this. Honestly as soon as I saw him at the start, I knew it was going to be a massacre. And that's what it has become.

Contador has been so out classed that one is left to wonder (really) what the f is going on.

maybe we should also see it as.. a great champion can also be humiliated. The bigger Contador is, the bigger the humiliation. The way I see it that's just part of being a champion. You win big, you loose big. Today, I wasn't expecting that AC will be massacred today by Froome. But even with the defeating feeling and humiliation as a fan, I still think that AC can still entertain us in the race. Who know if TS chase the stage win, with majka, kreuziger and him.. in breakaway? 2011 - he made andy chase him all the way even though he got no shoot to win the tour. 2nd and 3rd isn't fixed yet either.

 

[BlurryVII]

Seriously, Contador KNOWS the wattage he has to develop to beat Froome, I read last year, De jongh and Contador knew the numbers it took to beat Froome, Contador was most likely above it when he came to the Tour 2014.

And here, he shows up in this Tour being a minute behind 3rd - 4rd tier climbers? The thing is, he hyped the Tour and the double, he was counting the days on twitter and instagram those hashtags all over the place exactly when he was in la Sierra Nevada. I seriously thought everything was going well, to plan.

Turns out De Jongh and Alberto don't know what they're doing, they must've realised he didn't have it, that's for sure. So did they hope for a miracle, or did they suddenly forget Froome's value?

I understand the plan was probably peaking for the 3rd week but for that you have to be GOOD at a bare minimum right now. Now he is just SO far off his peak, it's just impossible to get anything from this Tour, he ain't gaining 20 % power in performance in just a few days or else he goes down Lance route.

If I was his coach, I'd tell him to leave this Tour right away, rest, go on a SERIOUS altitude training camp, and win the Vuelta. Instead, he'll keep up and get dropped day after day just to say he didn't give up.

 

[cellardoor]

Re: Re:

Rhubroma - none of us is happy to see him humiliated, however it is all part of the sport. Even the very best get beaten at times, and in every rider's career there's a point they start to decline.

I understand that, but he's only 32 and had an excellent year last year.

Look I don't really care in the greater scheme of things, however, what does bother me is that he actually thought he could win both against this Froome and show up for the war like this. This he could have spared us.

I just think you're setting a narrow set of parameters for "legacy" that isn't what people normally understand by it, if you're saying that past results don't count. Lemond is another example of someone who was humiliated in his final years, but he still won what he won. I personally would never have put Contador in the Hainault/Merckx league because he doesn't have the 5 Tours and the classics etc - he's a notch below that. But I feel his legacy is exactly the same as it was two weeks ago.

 

[damian13ster]

Re: Re:

He can't abandon.
It would be disgraceful.

It wouldn't be, no shame in admitting you're not up to it. But he won't.

Would be disrespectful not to ride the distance.
He can ride for the podium, stage... Team!

Podium is nothing for him.
Majka and Roman must be left off the leash. Alberto should finish in gruppetto tomorrow and get it over with. The team can ride for Sagan, and Majka, Roman and Alberto can go for mountain stage wins (though as I said I somehow doubt Froome would let Contador win a stage)

Was saying that since mid-Giro. It was painfully obvious that Contador is weak this season. Unfortunately Tinkoff already wasted half of the Tour because they couldn't accept the truth even if it punched them in the face.
Hopefully TS boys are able to salvage this Tour and get couple of stage wins + green. Majka is also far enough in GC to try and win couple MTFs and maybe go for Polka dot (although I think Froome will get that one as well as yellow if he doesn't crash, and I was dissapointed to see Rafal drop quite early today).

Btw, thanks for laughing at me when I said that Tour will be over by stage 11 (barring crashes).....

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Was saying that since mid-Giro. It was painfully obvious that Contador is weak this season. Unfortunately Tinkoff already wasted half of the Tour because they couldn't accept the truth even if it punched them in the face.
Hopefully TS boys are able to salvage this Tour and get couple of stage wins + green. Majka is also far enough in GC to try and win couple MTFs and maybe go for Polka dot (although I think Froome will get that one as well as yellow if he doesn't crash, and I was dissapointed to see Rafal drop quite early today).

Btw, thanks for laughing at me when I said that Tour will be over by stage 11 (barring crashes).....

Seriously, why do you hate Contador so much? Is it because he is in the way of Majka's success?

 

[Miburo]

Damian we were wrong but you too. You said majka could possibly do something in the GC, he's clearly not good enough to. But you ignored that, fine i never felt you're an honest person anyways.

Who laughed at you? I want the names? Many in this forum knew the tour could be over after today so give me the quotes and the people who said it.

 

[cellardoor]

Re:

Seriously, Contador KNOWS the wattage he has to develop to beat Froome, I read last year, De jongh and Contador knew the numbers it took to beat Froome, Contador was most likely above it when he came to the Tour 2014.

And here, he shows up in this Tour being a minute behind 3rd - 4rd tier climbers? The thing is, he hyped the Tour and the double, he was counting the days on twitter and instagram those hashtags all over the place exactly when he was in la Sierra Nevada. I seriously thought everything was going well, to plan.

Turns out De Jongh and Alberto don't know what they're doing, they must've realised he didn't have it, that's for sure. So did they hope for a miracle, or did they suddenly forget Froome's value?

I understand the plan was probably peaking for the 3rd week but for that you have to be GOOD at a bare minimum right now. Now he is just SO far off his peak, it's just impossible to get anything from this Tour, he ain't gaining 20 % power in performance in just a few days or else he goes down Lance route.

If I was his coach, I'd tell him to leave this Tour right away, rest, go on a SERIOUS altitude training camp, and win the Vuelta. Instead, he'll keep up and get dropped day after day just to say he didn't give up.

Well, I feel quite strongly that this is the essence of sport. I expect when many of us go and do our next race we'll finish in a 100th odd position or something, but do we give up? I really dislike it when people pull out simply because they're not going to win, especially when it smacks of wanting to not give the opposition to satisfaction of beating you (thereby claiming you were not truly beaten).

 

[Fight.The.Power]

Alberto Contador ‏@albertocontador · 37s37 seconds ago
Bad day in the Tour,now it's time to rest,to analize everything in cold and think on what is coming. @tinkoff_saxo

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Seriously, Contador KNOWS the wattage he has to develop to beat Froome, I read last year, De jongh and Contador knew the numbers it took to beat Froome, Contador was most likely above it when he came to the Tour 2014.

And here, he shows up in this Tour being a minute behind 3rd - 4rd tier climbers? The thing is, he hyped the Tour and the double, he was counting the days on twitter and instagram those hashtags all over the place exactly when he was in la Sierra Nevada. I seriously thought everything was going well, to plan.

Turns out De Jongh and Alberto don't know what they're doing, they must've realised he didn't have it, that's for sure. So did they hope for a miracle, or did they suddenly forget Froome's value?

I understand the plan was probably peaking for the 3rd week but for that you have to be GOOD at a bare minimum right now. Now he is just SO far off his peak, it's just impossible to get anything from this Tour, he ain't gaining 20 % power in performance in just a few days or else he goes down Lance route.

If I was his coach, I'd tell him to leave this Tour right away, rest, go on a SERIOUS altitude training camp, and win the Vuelta. Instead, he'll keep up and get dropped day after day just to say he didn't give up.

Yeah, I'm a bit confused too, I guess he was just too proud not to start the Tour.
I feel sorry for him, I really do, he must feel terrible, but it's his own fault.. as you said he must have seen it coming.
I hope he quits, but he won't, as you said. He won't be allowed to go in a break by Sky, and there's no way he's going to win a stage on strength alone. His Tour is basically over. Call it a day and rest for next season (remember, Indurain said that even a year after his Giro-Tour double he still felt the fatigue)

Next year... he should do the Giro-Vuelta double and match Merckx's record, or at the very least reach double digits. I don't think he'll be able to beat Froome and a stronger Nairo in the Tour, unless he has a perfect preparation and reaches absolute top shape, but I cannot see that happening because he is getting older and is not motivated anymore.

 

[Squirbos_19]

I know it's only been 1 mountain stage but I think he's still got a good shot at getting on the podium which will still be a massive achievement after riding the Giro. He's only 1 and 2 seconds behind Thonas and Valverde and 1.12 to Van Garderen.
Valverde: hasn't podiums the Tour ever and I seriously doubt he will this year as well, he'll crack somewhere or haw some bad luck, or he might have to actually ride for Quintana.
Thomas: hasn't ridden for GC before, I know he was very strong today but I doubt he can keep it up all Tour, even Porte had a shocking day on 2013.
Van Garderen: in great form but hasn't podiumed yet, not sure he can hang on with so many mountain stages, he'll probably crack somewhere.

For me the podium is between Froome, Quintana, Contador and Gesink who might get in Contadors way of the podium.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

I know it's only been 1 mountain stage but I think he's still got a good shot at getting on the podium which will still be a massive achievement after riding the Giro. He's only 1 and 2 seconds behind Thonas and Valverde and 1.12 to Van Garderen.
Valverde: hasn't podiums the Tour ever and I seriously doubt he will this year as well, he'll crack somewhere or haw some bad luck, or he might have to actually ride for Quintana.
Thomas: hasn't ridden for GC before, I know he was very strong today but I doubt he can keep it up all Tour, even Porte had a shocking day on 2013.
Van Garderen: in great form but hasn't podiumed yet, not sure he can hang on with so many mountain stages, he'll probably crack somewhere.

For me the podium is between Froome, Quintana, Contador and Gesink who might get in Contadors way of the podium.

A podium is not something for him to aim for, it would actually be quite humiliating.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Well, I feel quite strongly that this is the essence of sport. I expect when many of us go and do our next race we'll finish in a 100th odd position or something, but do we give up? I really dislike it when people pull out simply because they're not going to win, especially when it smacks of wanting to not give the opposition to satisfaction of beating you (thereby claiming you were not truly beaten).

No, no, this is not about leaving because he won't win. It's leaving because he can't even fight for it, or put in any attack whatsoever.

He is in that kind of form (2013) when he can't even accelerate, would only try some rubbish stuff in a descent or two and get reeled in before getting dropped again.

He is in the kind of form when he can't even win a stage nor have any impact on the race whatsoever.

Do you know what he said today? " I was feeling so bad, that it cost me to be out of the saddle" That's when you know you have to pull out of the freaking race

 

[Metabolol]

Re:

Seriously, Contador KNOWS the wattage he has to develop to beat Froome, I read last year, De jongh and Contador knew the numbers it took to beat Froome, Contador was most likely above it when he came to the Tour 2014.

And here, he shows up in this Tour being a minute behind 3rd - 4rd tier climbers? The thing is, he hyped the Tour and the double, he was counting the days on twitter and instagram those hashtags all over the place exactly when he was in la Sierra Nevada. I seriously thought everything was going well, to plan.

Turns out De Jongh and Alberto don't know what they're doing, they must've realised he didn't have it, that's for sure. So did they hope for a miracle, or did they suddenly forget Froome's value?

I understand the plan was probably peaking for the 3rd week but for that you have to be GOOD at a bare minimum right now. Now he is just SO far off his peak, it's just impossible to get anything from this Tour, he ain't gaining 20 % power in performance in just a few days or else he goes down Lance route.

If I was his coach, I'd tell him to leave this Tour right away, rest, go on a SERIOUS altitude training camp, and win the Vuelta. Instead, he'll keep up and get dropped day after day just to say he didn't give up.

I agree about dropping out of the Tour but going to the Vuelta would be a big mistake. He will get humiliated there too.