Re: Re:
Angliru said:
He had minimal support in this year's Giro, had a crash that certainly compromised his performance for the rest of the Giro all of which could quite possibly have led to the fatigue in the 3rd week of the Giro and ultimately left him with nothing in the tank for the Tou, this also compounded by his crash in the Tour that likely added to the negative effects that he had to overcome. It likely was a venture that was taken too late in his career for it to draw fruit although it wasn't a complete failure. He has the Giro win in hand.
I don't think you can attribute the difference between 2011 and 2015 to crashes and support.
He used minimal support in the Giro, even if it was available. He used up a huge amount of energy in that Giro. Also, he crashed in the Tour if I remember correctly. That didn't stop him from riding as he did at the Alpe stage.
Now I'm not ruling out that his crash at the Giro reduced his sustained power output, but do you really believe that had he not crashed and sustained a shoulder injury, he would have been much stronger at the Tour weeks later? I can buy that he would have been a little bit stronger, but more than that is a stretch.
Even if, contrary to what I said, crashes and lacking support account for much, what about the fact that his preparation surely must have been a lot better than it was in 2011. Contador has said that much himself. Did crashes and lacking support overcome even this advantage and result in a weaker Contador, or are there other factors at play?
One such factor could be the strength of competition. Perhaps Contador reached a similar, or even higher level in 2015 in both races than in 2011, it just happens to be that the guys he beat and lost to are much better. Maybe. Maybe Froome and Quintana, as well as Aru and Landa, are better than their 2011 counterparts. But it still doesn't explain why other riders at the Giro and the Tour come close to or even surpassed Contado on some stages.
Angliru said:
To say that his talents are severely diminished and using the 2 years (2011 & 2015) as your barometer is faulty. In 2014, as I have stated on this forum multiple times, Contador was able to do what no one else in the peloton has been able to do and that is match Froome in his manic accelerations in the mountains. Regardless of what is one's personal measurement of Froome's form in the 2014Vuelta, in the 3rd week when he should have been reaching his best form, Contador was with him pedal rev for pedal rev. Only Quintana has bettered that and it is Froome's and Sky's claim that he was suffering from an illness of some kind that hindered his performance at that point. Of course who know what is fact and what is fiction.
First, I'm not saying "severely diminished". I'm saying that a comparison of his two double attempts indicates he is diminished. Second, I'm comparing 2011 and 2015 because I'm attempting to compare like with like. In the absence of his 2011 attempt, who can tell what a reasonable performance in the Giro and Tour is? We wouldn't know. We might be thinking that Contador is at his best ever given his 2015 performance.. if he hadn't done better in 2011, with worse preparation.
As for Contador matching Froome on climbs it's been discussed many times now and there's been no convergence in opinions. Let's hope both arrive at the Tour de France in blistering shape next year, with perfect preparations and dominant performances in the one week races. Then they're probably close to their best at the Tour, and then we'll finally see.
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