Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

What, because he won a devalued time trial in a devalued Critérium International? My money's on Bertie to beat Pinot in the time trial. In the mountains, I don't know.

No, because he and the rest of FDJ have been TTing very well so far this season

 

[blackmamba]

In Tirreno Adriatico he only lost 12 sec to Tony Martin on a 10k flat as a pancake TT(which suits him terrible compared to the one they gonne ride in Pais Vasco).

He beat Bob jungels, Luke Durbridge and Jack Bauer to name a few. And only 2sec behind sagan aswell for instance so definitely strong TT'ing so far this season by Pinot!

 

[rm7]

Re: Re:

Yes, of course

Back in the day when the gradient of a climb didn't matter. Putting 15 riders on 20 sec in less than 2 km on 6% with a headwind.

Godmode

Sorry if i made you cry right now

And some people argue that he haven't declined at all

Sure he's still one of the best, but there was a time where he was beyond everybody - almost all the time.

I think science play a big part, which makes it a more even.

 

[ray j willings]

Bertie needs to lay it all out there. He is definitely riding tactics. He should stop looking at his computer and just get himself in the hurt zone.
It matters not that he wins or gets dropped now, it matters that come the tour he knows he has reached maximum potential and he must use these races to get stronger and not worry about winning or getting dropped.

 

[johnymax]

Re:

In Tirreno Adriatico he only lost 12 sec to Tony Martin on a 10k flat as a pancake TT(which suits him terrible compared to the one they gonne ride in Pais Vasco).

He beat Bob jungels, Luke Durbridge and Jack Bauer to name a few. And only 2sec behind sagan aswell for instance so definitely strong TT'ing so far this season by Pinot!

But strangely Pinot does better in those flat 10km or less ITTs compared to other GC riders than he does in longer hilly ITTs. That's why I think Contador has the upper hand here.

 

[blackmamba]

Re: Re:

In Tirreno Adriatico he only lost 12 sec to Tony Martin on a 10k flat as a pancake TT(which suits him terrible compared to the one they gonne ride in Pais Vasco).

He beat Bob jungels, Luke Durbridge and Jack Bauer to name a few. And only 2sec behind sagan aswell for instance so definitely strong TT'ing so far this season by Pinot!

But strangely Pinot does better in those flat 10km or less ITTs compared to other GC riders than he does in longer hilly ITTs. That's why I think Contador has the upper hand here.

Im obviously not arguing wether or not Contador should have the upper hand which I totally agree on just posted his recent TT rides which seem to indicate that he has improved in that area

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Think he was fine. It was too steep for him and the real climbers to make a difference without risking to blow up.

To be fair, when he does a sprint like that in the end, it usually means that he's in quite good shape. Otherwise he blow up in the middle of the acceleration and get overtaken by several riders.

He's not in good form. Period. We don't know if he can't be better than this or not, but a top Contador would smoke everyone today.

Yep, don't know why people are talking about steep or not steep or too short or whatever. Just look at PV 2014, 1st stage, not any further.
If he was feeling good, no way he would've let Landa and Kelder go. He was sat on his saddle half the climb spinning it

Agreed.

 

[Taxus4a]

I dont know exactly how to translate today Contador words, but there were like: I was very well but I didnt want to take the responsability like in Catalonia.

If he was so good, maybe 6 second with Henao is too much. Maybe he was too muich afraid of Quintana? the longest climb here is 5 Km... and it is tomorrow...I think there are more rivals than Quintana.

 

[jilbiker]

Re: Re:

In Catalunya it wasn't steep enough. Today was too steep. So, you think Contador is a nicho climber? Such as Apple. Very handsome, very nice way of riding, very expensive, but only suited for 5% of the climbs? Very **** boring excuse.

He's not in good form. Period. We don't know if he can't be better than this or not, but a top Contador would smoke everyone today.

He is superb on gradients between 6-7 and 10% (which is the majority of GT climbs ) Above he is still strong and stronger than several of his rivals, but there will be riders better on this gradient, unless he is in mythical shape.

That is correct. When I saw the finish for today's race days ago, I was baffled that Bertie fans would think he would do well. Are the fans desperate? Clawing at straws? This sort of finish is NOT good for AC, I do not remember anytime when he has done well on a very steep above 10% finish. And he was wise to hold off today, because he just does not have the physio for these kind of finish. When he has ridden hard on such finishes he always goes into the red and he does not have the explosive finish of a purito in his glorious days. The finish parcours of today was not for him, glad the damage was not too great. Friday's finish is more his type of hill. The ITT is chancy because he seems to have worsened on ITT.

He should really cut out this looking back when he rides, shows a lack of focus or confidence. For all the criticism I may have of Froome, I like that when he sets out on a dash, he does not look back to check who is following or not. Supreme confidence.

 

[cellardoor]

Re: Re:

Is not better to stop following him until the Tour?
You will live more serene
u_u

No, but what's annoying is that he's not following what he was doing in 14'. He could win this race if he had put in the efforts, the winter base is not gonna do the whole work for him. He has to build on it, he did that before PN, and he was in brilliant form. He stopped after that, and now it's all going down the pit.

The only hope left are the 2 remaining training camps, the one in Tenerife after PV and then hopefully another one like he did in 14' after Dauphiné in the Dolomites. But he'll start the tenerife one from further behind in form.

But maybe...it's precisely the plan!
He is not longer a youngster so he doesn't want squeeze himself too much. Tour is still far and i doubt he's become idiot who does not know what to do.

ps: i think his actually shape enables him to do a good ITT , i'm confident !

Perhaps last year is playing on his mind and he's willing to sacrifice races like this in order to ensure that he's in top form for the Tour, which means rest as well as training. I think his main aim for the spring was Paris-Nice and he's now coming down off a mini-peak and has decided not to force it by training when his body wants rest. I think most of us are agreed that he has the winter base and he's either similar or ahead in form compared to Quintana, Froome and Aru, which suggests there's enough time between the end of PV and the Tour to find the form he needs. Just because he built-up in a certain way in 2014 doesn't necessarily mean that that's the only way that will work. In 2014 he probably just assumed he'd win a couple more Tours before he retired and didn't feel a need to put all his eggs in one basket. This year it's all for the Tour (and perhaps PN to an extent). Also, he is 2 years older and approaching retirement and perhaps he realised that trying to string out 90% form for half the year is not the right way to do it anymore.

 

[burning]

Re: Re:

Yes, of course

Back in the day when the gradient of a climb didn't matter. Putting 15 riders on 20 sec in less than 2 km on 6% with a headwind.

Godmode

Sorry if i made you cry right now

And some people argue that he haven't declined at all

Sure he's still one of the best, but there was a time where he was beyond everybody - almost all the time.

I think science play a big part, which makes it a more even.

There is a good reason why Contador was drafted as no 4 in fantasy doping draft, even before guys like Riis, Pantani or RoboBasso. He was literally insane during whole 2009.

Beating prime Cancellara is something absolutely special, considering what happened in Mendrisio.

 

[Miburo]

On Contador yesterday btw, i think he prob felt good maybe even really good but on that hill when you go too early you blow up hard (he prob had mur de huy flashbacks and catalunya too). And everybody was on his wheel.

That's why i like froome, he doesn't care, he just goes even if he blows up

And his sprint was pretty good too

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

On Contador yesterday btw, i think he prob felt good maybe even really good but on that hill when you go too early you blow up hard (he prob had mur de huy flashbacks and catalunya too). And everybody was on his wheel.

That's why i like froome, he doesn't care, he just goes even if he blows up

And his sprint was pretty good too

Yeah, I agree. It was very obvious he learned from his mistake in Catalunya, he just didn't want to do all the work. Of course this wasn't an ideal situation either, but at least others didn't benefit from his efforts.

 

[ad9898]

What's the stage profile like today ?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

What's the stage profile like today ?

 

[Matteo.]

I just reviewed the stage ... and I 'm a little bit positively impressed than yesterday.
He had clearly allowed to go Kelderman and Landa, then he has remained attentive and in the only Costa shot, followed him with no problem ... and without grimaces( that's the positive point)

 

[Carols]

There was time Berto could handle any gradient fearlessly, shallow or steep, it didn't really matter. There was a time he didn't worry about blowing up and getting passed late. Those times seem to be in the past. That Doesn't Mean he Can't win races, simply that he has to rely more on tactics and race savvy! It sure would be nice if he had a decent team to support him but that seems unlikely. He can still win this race, but it won't be easy.

 

[LaFlorecita]

On Dutch Eurosport, Michael Boogerd says he spoke to De Jongh and he says that Alberto did a very thorough recon of the TT and that Alberto is relaxed because he feels he can count on the TT for the overall win.
I guess that recon can come in handy on the tricky descent

 

[Matteo.]

I'm not at all surprised. I have a lot of faith in him for that ITT

 

[Carols]

Re:

On Dutch Eurosport, Michael Boogerd says he spoke to De Jongh and he says that Alberto did a very thorough recon of the TT and that Alberto is relaxed because he feels he can count on the TT for the overall win.
I guess that recon can come in handy on the tricky descent

Works for me!

 

[lenric]

A top Contador would smoke every rider no matter how steep the gradient of the climb. A top Contador could smoke any rider in a 4/5% gradient climb.
A top Contador wouldn't need a ITT to gain time on climbers.
Moreover, Contador's fans know this, but they are by all means trying to ignore it.
There was a time when Contador was feared because he could gain time on climbs. Today he's kind of feared because he can win the time he has lost in climbs in ITTs. It's a huge difference and trying to ignore this is just sad.

 

[BlurryVII]

I read Contador not good anymore on steep short gradients and not indicative of his form?...

You're probably talking about Quintana, he's the one who can be average or even bad on those punchy climbs and still be in top form when it comes to longer climbs.

But you can see just about everywhere if Contador is in good form or not. His performance on any type of climb reflects his overall form. In the Tour 15', after Mur de Huy, I knew it was going to be a complicated Tour. In the Tour 2014', on every little climb from Yorkshire to Gerardmer, I could see Contador 100% of the time out of the saddle, almost not breathing. You just know how he's gonna do even before the first MTF. He's so predictable.

Don't fool yourself, if AC doesn't do well on a punchy climb, he's in average form or even bad and that will last long.

That will apply to the Tour 2016, stage 2. Short steep finish on Cherbourg-en-Cotentin, I swear if he's struggling that day, forget about the win. Sounds crazy, but I've watched him long enough to know that for sure.

 

[rune1107]

Re:

I read Contador not good anymore on steep short gradients and not indicative of his form?...

You're probably talking about Quintana, he's the one who can be average or even bad on those punchy climbs and still be in top form when it comes to longer climbs.

But you can see just about everywhere if Contador is in good form or not. His performance on any type of climb reflects his overall form. In the Tour 15', after Mur de Huy, I knew it was going to be a complicated Tour. In the Tour 2014', on every little climb from Yorkshire to Gerardmer, I could see Contador 100% of the time out of the saddle, almost not breathing. You just know how he's gonna do even before the first MTF. He's so predictable.

Don't fool yourself, if AC doesn't do well on a punchy climb, he's in average form or even bad and that will last long.

That will apply to the Tour 2016, stage 2. Short steep finish on Cherbourg-en-Cotentin, I swear if he's struggling that day, forget about the win. Sounds crazy, but I've watched him long enough to know that for sure.

I agree with this a lot! But I have seen crazier things in my days than a rider struggling on a small climb, and afterwards doing well in the MTF stages. So many variables have to be taken into account in a race as TDF. Of course, a bad stage 2 will not increase his chances, but to say "forget about the win" is a bit over the top in my opinion...

 

[LaFlorecita]

I thought Berto looked good today, he was right on Tibopino's wheel when he attacked

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

I agree with this a lot! But I have seen crazier things in my days than a rider struggling on a small climb, and afterwards doing well in the MTF stages. So many variables have to be taken into account in a race as TDF. Of course, a bad stage 2 will not increase his chances, but to say "forget about the win" is a bit over the top in my opinion...

To me a struggling AC on that stage 2, it means him spinning a low gear sat on the saddle, head tilt, trying to follow and grimacing. If that happens, I guarentee you, he'll not come back from it. The time he'd lose that day, if he loses any, will turn into minutes in the mountains.

On the contrary, if we see Contador all in control like he was on the Jenkin road hill (Tour 14'), it's game on.