Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Ataraxus]

Re: Re:

There's 3 riders with a better GC palmares than Quintana since 2013. It's really not even remotely close.

And there is at least 11 riders(Aru, Contador, Horner, Rodrigues, Froome, Valverde,Peraud,Nibali,Quintana, Uran and possibly Krujswijk, Chaves and Majka) with a better GC palmares than Landa from 2013 onwards.
What's your point?

Because recent GC palmares is an indicator of current level. If you'd do it for Landa, it would be from 2015 onwards obviously, and then it would only be 6 at the most. It doesn't tell the whole story, but I think at least shows consistency at the highest level.

Another thing you could look at is power estimates, but that is where a lot of variables come in, the importance of which is up for interpretation, and as such a lot of subjectivity comes in.

The Giro hasn't finished yet but in a weeks time most probably Kruijswijk will blow your thesis apart.

 

[Red Rick]

So yeah the number changes, the point doesn't.

 

[lenric]

Re:

Only a fool will dispute Alberto's greatness in terms of GC-racing, but we aren't comparing palmarés, rather discussing who will be better in 2016. If it was a contest of who has the better palmarés, they wouldn't even bother racing in 2016 - Alberto would've won already.

I don't think anyone is jealous. I think there are a couple of posters who would wish we could have a more nuanced debate in this thread since its actually is a discussion thread, not a love or an admiration-thread which someone mistakenly could be led to think it was considering every discussion quickly gets shut down by the Contador-horde led by you, LF, blackmamba and Blurry.

Quoted for truth. However, it's boring to discuss with them, since they always spit the same tape, as in, "we can only compare Contador's performance with other riders performance whenever Contador is in top form, whether or not his rivals are too."
It's really like socialism. Whenever *** goes bad, it's always somebody else's mistake.

 

[blackmamba]

Some people are so upset about Contador beeing the greatest without anyone even beeing in the contention its sad, get over it already jesus christ.

Yes Contadors best years are behind him no doubt, but STILL noone has beaten him in a straight up GC battle (dont count the giro - tour double cause only a fool would do that) 2014 he beat Froome in Vuelta, 2015 he won easy in Giro if anyone besides Contador wins Tour 2016 if he didnt crash or anything like that then sure someone has managed to finally beat him straight up and we can admit it no problem but untill it happens stop beeing so obsessed about fiction!

To the guys who for some reason dislike the greatest rider of our generation it should say a thing or two that even tho his best years are behind he still beats everyone these days aswell, shouldnt that tell you are thing or two im just wondering cause from a logical standpoint it explains alot

Note: As mentioned already, dont bring up the Tour last year cause its to stupid to even reply to everyone with a little knowledge about cycling surely will know why. I know you bring it up cause its nothing else to bring up, that alone should make you think aswell....

 

[infeXio]

Yawn, this again... pointless.

 

[Electress]

Re: Re:

Duplicate. Apologies

 

[Electress]

Re: Re:

Only a fool will dispute Alberto's greatness in terms of GC-racing, but we aren't comparing palmarés, rather discussing who will be better in 2016. If it was a contest of who has the better palmarés, they wouldn't even bother racing in 2016 - Alberto would've won already.

I don't think anyone is jealous. I think there are a couple of posters who would wish we could have a more nuanced debate in this thread since its actually is a discussion thread, not a love or an admiration-thread which someone mistakenly could be led to think it was considering every discussion quickly gets shut down by the Contador-horde led by you, LF, blackmamba and Blurry.

Quoted for truth. However, it's boring to discuss with them, since they always spit the same tape, as in, "we can only compare Contador's performance with other riders performance whenever Contador is in top form, whether or not his rivals are too."
It's really like socialism. Whenever **** goes bad, it's always somebody else's mistake.

Perhaps one should add that those in favour of nuanced debate come from both sides of the discussion, and not merely one or the other"?

As someone who avoids this thread like the plague when the repeated round-and-round debate starts, it is pretty clear that posters from both sides are equally bad at understanding the difference between fact and opinion, cherry picking facts to suit one side of the argument or assuming we all have the same notion of what 'best' is. Agree a terms of reference if you want nuanced debate, but for the love of God, please start another thread, because I wholeheartedly concur with this statement:

Yawn, this again... pointless.

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

Only a fool will dispute Alberto's greatness in terms of GC-racing, but we aren't comparing palmarés, rather discussing who will be better in 2016. If it was a contest of who has the better palmarés, they wouldn't even bother racing in 2016 - Alberto would've won already.

I don't think anyone is jealous. I think there are a couple of posters who would wish we could have a more nuanced debate in this thread since its actually is a discussion thread, not a love or an admiration-thread which someone mistakenly could be led to think it was considering every discussion quickly gets shut down by the Contador-horde led by you, LF, blackmamba and Blurry.

Quoted for truth. However, it's boring to discuss with them, since they always spit the same tape, as in, "we can only compare Contador's performance with other riders performance whenever Contador is in top form, whether or not his rivals are too."
It's really like socialism. Whenever **** goes bad, it's always somebody else's mistake.

Perhaps one should add that those in favour of nuanced debate come from both sides of the discussion, and not merely one or the other"?

As someone who avoids this thread like the plague when the repeated round-and-round debate starts, it is pretty clear that posters from both sides are equally bad at understanding the difference between fact and opinion, cherry picking facts to suit one side of the argument or assuming we all have the same notion of what 'best' is. Agree a terms of reference if you want nuanced debate, but for the love of God, please start another thread, because I wholeheartedly concur with this statement:

Yawn, this again... pointless.

I agree 150% with you, mainly because Alberto Contador is my favorite rider by far since 2009.
However, it doesn't matter how many rationality you try to introduce here (or in any other thread about a famous rider), since this clearly is an emotional topic, hence subjective (like infeXio said). But it's fun, so take it with a light heart and a wink

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

How is this even a discussion, Contador is 33 years old, 9 GTs, still beating all his rivals everytime he is on equal ground / same race schedule lol, bar the Tour 2013.

Enough said.

I think this tour will be the one that makes it clear that Quintana and not contador is now the second best gt rider in the world behind froome.

Oh, alright then, quoted for July.
We're gonna have a laugh.

ac, froome and quintana have pretty even chances to win the big one, however you've being warning anyone for а few months about what a laugh you'll have in July. LOL. Blurry, my proposal is still on, how about $100 bet bertie vs froome for the tour?

 

[Miburo]

Jens attacks his twitter

Gazzetta dello Sport: "Alberto Contador helped by Ivan Basso, is close to ride for his own team. News before Le Tour."

 

[LaFlorecita]

Oh yes please!! although I would also love Lampre

 

[Miburo]

Re:

Oh yes please!! although I would also love Lampre

Fleur 12 more days before we see him in yellow again

 

[LaFlorecita]

He hasn't won the stage yet but I am very confident as well

 

[Miburo]

Re:

He hasn't won the stage yet but I am very confident as well

We'll definitely overreact and declare the tour lost if he doesn't

What is his team gonna be like (tour and dauphine)? Kiserlovsky and a trofimov in giro 2015 shape will be big assets.

 

[Matteo.]

I hope he'll have a decent team this year to control the race

 

[BlurryVII]

Trek is one of the offers now

 

[Miburo]

Re:

I hope he'll have a decent team this year to control the race

Actually you don't want that. The best Contador always had a *** team.

In 2009 he had no team. In the giro of 2011 and the vuelta of 2014 his team was terrible

 

[May0maniac]

Re: Re:

I hope he'll have a decent team this year to control the race

Actually you don't want that. The best Contador always had a **** team.

In 2009 he had no team. In the giro of 2011 and the vuelta of 2014 his team was terrible

But in 2014 Jesús Hernández suddenly became a really strong climbing domestique on the 2 hardest mountain stages (he finished 17th on Lagos de Somiedo and 13th on Puerto de Ancares), that was rather surprising.

 

[Matteo.]

Re: Re:

I hope he'll have a decent team this year to control the race

Actually you don't want that. The best Contador always had a **** team.

In 2009 he had no team. In the giro of 2011 and the vuelta of 2014 his team was terrible

I was wrong not to specify: i spoke of dauphine , we hope to not repeat the 2014 where he was alone.The tour is too far anyway ,

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

I hope he'll have a decent team this year to control the race

Actually you don't want that. The best Contador always had a **** team.

In 2009 he had no team. In the giro of 2011 and the vuelta of 2014 his team was terrible

But in 2014 Jesús Hernández suddenly became a really strong climbing domestique on the 2 hardest mountain stages (he finished 17th on Lagos de Somiedo and 13th on Puerto de Ancares), that was rather surprising.

Hernandez was 9th in Semnoz in TDF 2013.

 

[May0maniac]

Re: Re:

I hope he'll have a decent team this year to control the race

Actually you don't want that. The best Contador always had a **** team.

In 2009 he had no team. In the giro of 2011 and the vuelta of 2014 his team was terrible

But in 2014 Jesús Hernández suddenly became a really strong climbing domestique on the 2 hardest mountain stages (he finished 17th on Lagos de Somiedo and 13th on Puerto de Ancares), that was rather surprising.

Hernandez was 9th in Semnoz in TDF 2013.

Yeah, I kinda forgot about that.
That stage was all about Purito getting a podium spot.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

I hope he'll have a decent team this year to control the race

Actually you don't want that. The best Contador always had a **** team.

In 2009 he had no team. In the giro of 2011 and the vuelta of 2014 his team was terrible

Tour 2014 he had one hell of a team. Majka, Rogers at their peak, Roche etc.

 

[Miburo]

And he crashed out, see my point mate

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Trek is one of the offers now

Crap team. He'd be better off in Etixx or Astana

 

[Red Rick]

He'd have Bauke Mollema with him, always at his eternal 8th place in the bunch