Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

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The main problem with Contador is his team and this has always been the case, for one reason or another.

The truth is that the Tour today is won by out-budgeting the competition. The science has become so exact and the 'marginal gains' so critical that only a superstructure with a colossal budget pays dividends.

It isn't just the rider, but the support, staff, market share that wins, a colossal enterprise that mirrors the race itself. And not only is Contador in the twilight of his career, but his team is on the way out with an owner that has burnt bridges with the establishment.

I figure this has as much to do with performance as talent, all things else being equal among the favorites.
 
Re:

rhubroma said:
The main problem with Contador is his team and this has always been the case, for one reason or another.

The truth is that the Tour today is won by out-budgeting the competition. The science has become so exact and the 'marginal gains' so critical that only a superstructure with a colossal budget pays dividends.

It isn't just the rider, but the support, staff, market share that wins, a colossal enterprise that mirrors the race itself. And not only is Contador in the twilight of his career, but his team is on the way out with an owner that has burnt bridges with the establishment.

I figure this has as much to do with performance as talent, all things else being equal among the favorites.
You're describing Sky. Astana was pretty far from dominant in 2014. Evans win in 2011 with pretty little team support. Sky stands and falls with the strength of its leader.
 
Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
rhubroma said:
The main problem with Contador is his team and this has always been the case, for one reason or another.

The truth is that the Tour today is won by out-budgeting the competition. The science has become so exact and the 'marginal gains' so critical that only a superstructure with a colossal budget pays dividends.

It isn't just the rider, but the support, staff, market share that wins, a colossal enterprise that mirrors the race itself. And not only is Contador in the twilight of his career, but his team is on the way out with an owner that has burnt bridges with the establishment.

I figure this has as much to do with performance as talent, all things else being equal among the favorites.
You're describing Sky. Astana was pretty far from dominant in 2014. Evans win in 2011 with pretty little team support. Sky stands and falls with the strength of its leader.
Indeed, but the sport has changed dramatically over the past 6 years. And Sky has been the fulcrum of this change. As far as GTs are concerned Sky has radicalized everything (from preparation to diet, to the psychology of competition), as if it has caused a "genetic mutation" in the sport.

This is why Contador's present situation at Tinkov is pretty abysmal.
 
Mar 9, 2013
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Re: Re:

rhubroma said:
Red Rick said:
rhubroma said:
The main problem with Contador is his team and this has always been the case, for one reason or another.

The truth is that the Tour today is won by out-budgeting the competition. The science has become so exact and the 'marginal gains' so critical that only a superstructure with a colossal budget pays dividends.

It isn't just the rider, but the support, staff, market share that wins, a colossal enterprise that mirrors the race itself. And not only is Contador in the twilight of his career, but his team is on the way out with an owner that has burnt bridges with the establishment.

I figure this has as much to do with performance as talent, all things else being equal among the favorites.
You're describing Sky. Astana was pretty far from dominant in 2014. Evans win in 2011 with pretty little team support. Sky stands and falls with the strength of its leader.
Indeed, but the sport has changed dramatically over the past 6 years. And Sky has been the fulcrum of this change. As far as GTs are concerned Sky has radicalized everything (from preparation to diet, to the psychology of competition), as if it has caused a "genetic mutation" in the sport.

This is why Contador's present situation at Tinkov is pretty abysmal.
I have to disagree. SKY have been crushing LeTour. By strangling the race. With the mountain train. And identifying 1 stage where a big attack by there GC man (Froome) is made. Then they play defense to Paris. The Wiggo tour was different in that Wiggo won a tour virtually built for him (lots of TT Km's).

You are correct in SKY's budget being a factor. In support riders only. That is what allows them to "play defense". I disagree in that. They do not dominate GT's Examples Wiggo Giro, Porte Giro, Landa Giro.

Now back to the AC thread. I hope he wins his National TT title. I'm kinda thinking the RR will be a training ride for him. Also he shows his face there. Which keeps his National Federation Happy ...IMHO
 
I wouldn't call Sky's approach to the tour groundbreaking. They are basically following the US Postal playbook. Deaden the climbers legs in the runup to the final summit. Nothing earth shattering about that, except that they aren't clinic related in their approach (not insinuating that they should be).
 
Aug 28, 2015
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Re: Re:

thehook said:
rhubroma said:
Red Rick said:
rhubroma said:
The main problem with Contador is his team and this has always been the case, for one reason or another.

The truth is that the Tour today is won by out-budgeting the competition. The science has become so exact and the 'marginal gains' so critical that only a superstructure with a colossal budget pays dividends.

It isn't just the rider, but the support, staff, market share that wins, a colossal enterprise that mirrors the race itself. And not only is Contador in the twilight of his career, but his team is on the way out with an owner that has burnt bridges with the establishment.

I figure this has as much to do with performance as talent, all things else being equal among the favorites.
You're describing Sky. Astana was pretty far from dominant in 2014. Evans win in 2011 with pretty little team support. Sky stands and falls with the strength of its leader.
Indeed, but the sport has changed dramatically over the past 6 years. And Sky has been the fulcrum of this change. As far as GTs are concerned Sky has radicalized everything (from preparation to diet, to the psychology of competition), as if it has caused a "genetic mutation" in the sport.

This is why Contador's present situation at Tinkov is pretty abysmal.
I have to disagree. SKY have been crushing LeTour. By strangling the race. With the mountain train. And identifying 1 stage where a big attack by there GC man (Froome) is made. Then they play defense to Paris. The Wiggo tour was different in that Wiggo won a tour virtually built for him (lots of TT Km's).

You are correct in SKY's budget being a factor. In support riders only. That is what allows them to "play defense". I disagree in that. They do not dominate GT's Examples Wiggo Giro, Porte Giro, Landa Giro.

Now back to the AC thread. I hope he wins his National TT title. I'm kinda thinking the RR will be a training ride for him. Also he shows his face there. Which keeps his National Federation Happy ...IMHO
He isn't riding TT though, is he?!
 
Re: Re:

thehook said:
rhubroma said:
Red Rick said:
rhubroma said:
The main problem with Contador is his team and this has always been the case, for one reason or another.

The truth is that the Tour today is won by out-budgeting the competition. The science has become so exact and the 'marginal gains' so critical that only a superstructure with a colossal budget pays dividends.

It isn't just the rider, but the support, staff, market share that wins, a colossal enterprise that mirrors the race itself. And not only is Contador in the twilight of his career, but his team is on the way out with an owner that has burnt bridges with the establishment.

I figure this has as much to do with performance as talent, all things else being equal among the favorites.
You're describing Sky. Astana was pretty far from dominant in 2014. Evans win in 2011 with pretty little team support. Sky stands and falls with the strength of its leader.
Indeed, but the sport has changed dramatically over the past 6 years. And Sky has been the fulcrum of this change. As far as GTs are concerned Sky has radicalized everything (from preparation to diet, to the psychology of competition), as if it has caused a "genetic mutation" in the sport.

This is why Contador's present situation at Tinkov is pretty abysmal.
I have to disagree. SKY have been crushing LeTour. By strangling the race. With the mountain train. And identifying 1 stage where a big attack by there GC man (Froome) is made. Then they play defense to Paris. The Wiggo tour was different in that Wiggo won a tour virtually built for him (lots of TT Km's).

You are correct in SKY's budget being a factor. In support riders only. That is what allows them to "play defense". I disagree in that. They do not dominate GT's Examples Wiggo Giro, Porte Giro, Landa Giro.

Now back to the AC thread. I hope he wins his National TT title. I'm kinda thinking the RR will be a training ride for him. Also he shows his face there. Which keeps his National Federation Happy ...IMHO
To the bolded, though, this is precisely what I was on about. Sky is a more sophisticated version of USPostal and it has changed the sport.

Now they've turned a guy who, yes, had some potential (though nothing that could have otherwise been foreseen in the level thus attained), into a phenomenon that has KOd a great of the sport on more than one occasion.

Such a transformation was unimaginable before Sky, which analysed the data and went about constructing a champion that has upped the bar of human performance at the Tour.

I say that is a huge problem for Contador, who has excellent genetics but lacks the type of enterprise Sky has offered and built around Froome. If he wins the Tour it will be a sensational performance, mostly because of the odds to overcome.
 
Aug 6, 2015
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His body language was terrible in dauphine and he looks uncomfortable against froome. He only spent a week in altitude, this means that his preparation was almost done when he arrived to dauphine. Sorry guys, but i don't expect big things in july.
 
Re:

Homo Helveticus said:
Salary caps for cycling, anyone?
Salary caps means that Froome will cost 2 million a year instead of 5 million, which means Sky can pay for 2 more super doms.

Or ofcourse you think that riders will come to other teams for the same 2 million to ride as a leader. That might be possible, but there are other ways to pay for riders beside salary and rich teams usually know how too.

I'm still pro salary caps, allthough I guess my post doesn't suggest that ;)
 
Re: Re:

Kwibus said:
Homo Helveticus said:
Salary caps for cycling, anyone?
Salary caps means that Froome will cost 2 million a year instead of 5 million, which means Sky can pay for 2 more super doms.

Or ofcourse you think that riders will come to other teams for the same 2 million to ride as a leader. That might be possible, but there are other ways to pay for riders beside salary and rich teams usually know how too.

I'm still pro salary caps, allthough I guess my post doesn't suggest that ;)
Huh?
 
Aug 26, 2014
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Surely rather than a salary cap, you would be better off having a team salary cap - i.e. you can pay for a monster star, but that means your team may well be weaker…or you can pay for a more moderately expensive star, and then have a stronger team….

I'm not really pro anything like this, by the way. Rather get rid of race radios and have a slightly smaller team or something, so emphasis is more on the individual.
 
Re:

portugal11 said:
His body language was terrible in dauphine and he looks uncomfortable against froome. He only spent a week in altitude, this means that his preparation was almost done when he arrived to dauphine. Sorry guys, but i don't expect big things in july.
His body language looked pretty good to me when he was pretend attacking on a training stage and destroying the Sky train. I think you do/hope expect big things in July but obviously not for Contador.
 
Jun 25, 2015
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portugal11.

What can we say, Amen reverend. :rolleyes:
No offense, but since the delfinato you write the same thing in this thread: we understand, that's enough.
 
Re:

Electress said:
Surely rather than a salary cap, you would be better off having a team salary cap - i.e. you can pay for a monster star, but that means your team may well be weaker…or you can pay for a more moderately expensive star, and then have a stronger team….

I'm not really pro anything like this, by the way. Rather get rid of race radios and have a slightly smaller team or something, so emphasis is more on the individual.
Getting rid of race radios and smaller teams is something I like much more indeed!
 
Re: Re:

thehook said:
rhubroma said:
Red Rick said:
rhubroma said:
The main problem with Contador is his team and this has always been the case, for one reason or another.

The truth is that the Tour today is won by out-budgeting the competition. The science has become so exact and the 'marginal gains' so critical that only a superstructure with a colossal budget pays dividends.

It isn't just the rider, but the support, staff, market share that wins, a colossal enterprise that mirrors the race itself. And not only is Contador in the twilight of his career, but his team is on the way out with an owner that has burnt bridges with the establishment.

I figure this has as much to do with performance as talent, all things else being equal among the favorites.
You're describing Sky. Astana was pretty far from dominant in 2014. Evans win in 2011 with pretty little team support. Sky stands and falls with the strength of its leader.
Indeed, but the sport has changed dramatically over the past 6 years. And Sky has been the fulcrum of this change. As far as GTs are concerned Sky has radicalized everything (from preparation to diet, to the psychology of competition), as if it has caused a "genetic mutation" in the sport.

This is why Contador's present situation at Tinkov is pretty abysmal.
I have to disagree. SKY have been crushing LeTour. By strangling the race. With the mountain train. And identifying 1 stage where a big attack by there GC man (Froome) is made. Then they play defense to Paris. The Wiggo tour was different in that Wiggo won a tour virtually built for him (lots of TT Km's).

You are correct in SKY's budget being a factor. In support riders only. That is what allows them to "play defense". I disagree in that. They do not dominate GT's Examples Wiggo Giro, Porte Giro, Landa Giro.

Now back to the AC thread. I hope he wins his National TT title. I'm kinda thinking the RR will be a training ride for him. Also he shows his face there. Which keeps his National Federation Happy ...IMHO
They didn't perform well in the bolded due to the limitations of the riders indicated, not because of their inability to dominate the event. Wiggins self-destructed. Porte had his typical bad day(s) that took him out of contention. Landa we can only speculate as to what happened. Still prior to the Giro he was one of the favorites.
 

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