Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Miburo]

Re:

Contador said before that he was finished with the Giro and i believe him. He has had more success there than in the Tour in recent years so he prefers to look to the Tour and the Vuelta. Next year I expect him to do similar and target the Tour, I don't expect him to win unless something unusual happens but it's obvious that that is the GT he wants to win before he retires. No podium since 2010 so it's unfinished business for him but at this stage I think a podium is the best he will do and maybe a podium will be satisfactory for him considering what has happened or hasn't happened in the last six tears in the Tour.

Maybe you're right yea, i think he values a stage win more than a podium though.

But you never know what happens, if he has some luck he can still win it. I'm still not convinced that Froome was so great this year, i think Contador had a fighthing chance

 

[Red Rick]

I think it is best to wait and see which shape he reaches this Vuelta. He should be making progress. That should reflect his level better even though he's unlikely to win

 

[IMA]

Re: Re:

I'd like to see Contador try a change of approach next season. Ride the Tour as a stage hunter, building toward a super peak for the Vuelta. It's a waste of time him peaking for the Tour and trying to do well in the GC there, because he can't challenge Froome and Quintana there. And it's been a very long time since he even won a stage there, so that would be something good to aim for. Then he can come into the Vuelta with top shape, hopefully win that if Froome and Quintana are on their way down after the Tour. Perhaps he could even hold the peak then to challenge for Milan-Torino or even Lombardia.

If he tries to peak for the Tour again, he won't win anything.

Contador as a stage hunter............Maybe he should just aim for Algarve...

Before doing that he´d do Giro-Vuelta.

But do you really think that Alberto became a champion with a loser mentality? He´s not Virenke nor Basso. He´s a f****** legend ffs.

He hasn't won a Tour de France stage for seven years, and has only won three in his whole career. It would be a decent achievement if he could win a couple more. Certainly better than finishing 5th or 6th in the GC, which would be the alternative. Of course, it's not so easy to win TdF stages, so there is a decent chance he would come away from the Tour with nothing, but he would still have good shape for the Vuelta if he doesn't fight for GC.

It's not a question of having a loser's mentality, it's about being realistic about your ability relative to the rivals. If he goes to the Tour he can't win against Froome and Quintana on top form, and he probably wouldn't do well in the Vuelta after fighting a hard GC battle in the Tour.

Giro would be another good option as long as Nibali doesn't show up. But, instead of padding out his palmares with possible GC podiums against weak fields and taking week long stage races that no-one else is peaking for, I'd prefer him to try to broaden his palmares a bit. Challenge for some one day races or start stage hunting.

I think you´re taking for granted that he´s not going to reach a decent shape anymore, like for example he did in the Giro ´15. And with that shape, he´d probably had beaten Nibali in the last Giro. I wonder what you said in August ´13 about Contador. I bet you thought he would never be competitive again. If he puts a few things in the right place, things won´t look that bad as now. Some people forget that with a team beside him he´d had won Paris-Nice, Volta and Itzulia...and that only happened a few months ago. You cannot do that being a washed up.

I´m not saying that he´ll be at the level he was in 2014, that´s very unlikely tbh. But i wouldn´t be so confident to asseverate that he cannot fight Nibali a GT.

You overrate, as many others, Nibali. All his GT wins were against rivals like Mosquera, Urán, Peraud and Chaves. That doesn´t mean too much to me.

And not even when he was in his prime was good enough to win one day races. His chances now are even lower than then. Would be a waste of time.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I'd like to see Contador try a change of approach next season. Ride the Tour as a stage hunter, building toward a super peak for the Vuelta. It's a waste of time him peaking for the Tour and trying to do well in the GC there, because he can't challenge Froome and Quintana there. And it's been a very long time since he even won a stage there, so that would be something good to aim for. Then he can come into the Vuelta with top shape, hopefully win that if Froome and Quintana are on their way down after the Tour. Perhaps he could even hold the peak then to challenge for Milan-Torino or even Lombardia.

If he tries to peak for the Tour again, he won't win anything.

Contador as a stage hunter............Maybe he should just aim for Algarve...

Before doing that he´d do Giro-Vuelta.

But do you really think that Alberto became a champion with a loser mentality? He´s not Virenke nor Basso. He´s a f****** legend ffs.

He hasn't won a Tour de France stage for seven years, and has only won three in his whole career. It would be a decent achievement if he could win a couple more. Certainly better than finishing 5th or 6th in the GC, which would be the alternative. Of course, it's not so easy to win TdF stages, so there is a decent chance he would come away from the Tour with nothing, but he would still have good shape for the Vuelta if he doesn't fight for GC.

It's not a question of having a loser's mentality, it's about being realistic about your ability relative to the rivals. If he goes to the Tour he can't win against Froome and Quintana on top form, and he probably wouldn't do well in the Vuelta after fighting a hard GC battle in the Tour.

Giro would be another good option as long as Nibali doesn't show up. But, instead of padding out his palmares with possible GC podiums against weak fields and taking week long stage races that no-one else is peaking for, I'd prefer him to try to broaden his palmares a bit. Challenge for some one day races or start stage hunting.

I think you´re taking for granted that he´s not going to reach a decent shape anymore, like for example he did in the Giro ´15. And with that shape, he´d probably had beaten Nibali in the last Giro. I wonder what you said in August ´13 about Contador. I bet you thought he would never be competitive again. If he puts a few things in the right place, things won´t look that bad as now. Some people forget that with a team beside him he´d had won Paris-Nice, Volta and Itzulia...and that only happened a few months ago. You cannot do that being a washed up.

I´m not saying that he´ll be at the level he was in 2014, that´s very unlikely tbh. But i wouldn´t be so confident to asseverate that he cannot fight Nibali a GT.

You overrate, as many others, Nibali. All his GT wins were against rivals like Mosquera, Urán, Peraud and Chaves. That doesn´t mean too much to me.

And not even when he was in his prime was good enough to win one day races. His chances now are even lower than then. Would be a waste of time.

He certainly could challenge Nibali on top form. But, Nibali in Italy is a very difficult proposition. He's got an incredible record in the Giro, stage races and also one day races in Italy. If Contador's looking for an easy win to pad out his palmares, peaking for the Vuelta would be the better bet imo. Contador wouldn't beat Nibali at the Giro if he only has the same shape as he had in 2015.

 

[Matteo.]

What Nibali...one of 2016?!
The contador of last yeat would have beaten this Nibali with one leg. He was back 4.40min Krusiwick that without the crash would win without any problem

 

[filipepc]

Yesterday i couldn´t watch the race, i´ve watched right now...

First congratulations to Quintana, he looks too strong, much better than i would dream...
Valverde, my god, third GT and he will make top 5 almost certain...
Froome is a beat, yes ut´s like a robot riding, but it was magnficent. Having the inteligence to know your limits it´s like a champion must act.

Know my guy... Look, i´m sad, but i´m happy too... He attacked, he tryed to make the diference, he simple didn´t stay quite wainting for the others... He looked well, he just cracked almost on the top... Than he lost much time yes, but he made a good climb...

I just hope he keeps fighting and try to make a good vuelta. Winning? Well, like he said, he´s almost impossible, but there aren´t impossibles... If Quintana don´t crack, he will not be able to do it, and maybe the better he gets it´s a 3 or 4 th place.

I don´t think he is in a top shape like some of you are saying, but he isn´t too so bad like other want to us to believe... The diference is Quintana in this moment... Chapeau.

 

[fungusbear]

Read an interesting article on skysports that brought up the point that one of the reasons Contador has been so "unlucky" with crashes is down to his team. He is often quite isolated in finishes, whereas riders like Froome and Quintana always are sheltered by their team mates and will have a team mate riding directly behind to avoid a rider touching wheels with them. I dunno how credible it is, but it would I think explain a lot (and not just that his bike handling has deteriorated dramatically)

 

[fungusbear]

Also would love to see an all or nothing attack for the win from Contador at some point this vuelta regardless if it succeeds or fails.

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

Also would love to see an all or nothing attack for the win from Contador at some point this vuelta regardless if it succeeds or fails.

The stage to Formigal is the best bet for one of those I reckon. Aubisque is too hard to go for a long range attack on the previous climb, as Bertie would probably be chased down on it, being tired from the attack. Otoh it may be the best one to hurt Movistar on, as it has more than one hard climb.

SKY have the best chance of doing that, though. König so high up on GC could prove very useful in rider two stages.

I say Formigal mainly because the stage kinda resembles Fuente De of 2012.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Read an interesting article on skysports that brought up the point that one of the reasons Contador has been so "unlucky" with crashes is down to his team. He is often quite isolated in finishes, whereas riders like Froome and Quintana always are sheltered by their team mates and will have a team mate riding directly behind to avoid a rider touching wheels with them. I dunno how credible it is, but it would I think explain a lot (and not just that his bike handling has deteriorated dramatically)

Sounds like nonsense. Sagan is on the same team, is similarly isolated most of the time, is involved in a lot more risky, sharp end sprints. And he never crashes.

His crash in this Vuelta happened because he chose to leave his team-mates wheel and drift slowly backwards through a bunch of riders who were trying to sprint for the stage win. He unnecessarily put himself in a dangerous position; should have either maintained the speed of the bunch or dropped to the back before the sprint started. His crash in the Tour was just poor bike handling; either his wheels slid out from under him, or he took slight contact on his rear wheel which happens all the time in the peloton and shouldn't be anywhere near enough to send him down.

 

[lenric]

Re:

Read an interesting article on skysports that brought up the point that one of the reasons Contador has been so "unlucky" with crashes is down to his team. He is often quite isolated in finishes, whereas riders like Froome and Quintana always are sheltered by their team mates and will have a team mate riding directly behind to avoid a rider touching wheels with them. I dunno how credible it is, but it would I think explain a lot (and not just that his bike handling has deteriorated dramatically)

I call it ***. In 2009 he didn't have a team and he didn't fall.
He's simply being reckless.

In 2013 Froome "twittered" Contador almost tackled him while descending.

 

[boasson]

Re: Re:

I'd like to see Contador try a change of approach next season. Ride the Tour as a stage hunter, building toward a super peak for the Vuelta. It's a waste of time him peaking for the Tour and trying to do well in the GC there, because he can't challenge Froome and Quintana there. And it's been a very long time since he even won a stage there, so that would be something good to aim for. Then he can come into the Vuelta with top shape, hopefully win that if Froome and Quintana are on their way down after the Tour. Perhaps he could even hold the peak then to challenge for Milan-Torino or even Lombardia.

If he tries to peak for the Tour again, he won't win anything.

Contador as a stage hunter............Maybe he should just aim for Algarve...

Before doing that he´d do Giro-Vuelta.

But do you really think that Alberto became a champion with a loser mentality? He´s not Virenke nor Basso. He´s a f****** legend ffs.

He hasn't won a Tour de France stage for seven years, and has only won three in his whole career. It would be a decent achievement if he could win a couple more. Certainly better than finishing 5th or 6th in the GC, which would be the alternative. Of course, it's not so easy to win TdF stages, so there is a decent chance he would come away from the Tour with nothing, but he would still have good shape for the Vuelta if he doesn't fight for GC.

It's not a question of having a loser's mentality, it's about being realistic about your ability relative to the rivals. If he goes to the Tour he can't win against Froome and Quintana on top form, and he probably wouldn't do well in the Vuelta after fighting a hard GC battle in the Tour.

Giro would be another good option as long as Nibali doesn't show up. But, instead of padding out his palmares with possible GC podiums against weak fields and taking week long stage races that no-one else is peaking for, I'd prefer him to try to broaden his palmares a bit. Challenge for some one day races or start stage hunting.

I think you´re taking for granted that he´s not going to reach a decent shape anymore, like for example he did in the Giro ´15. And with that shape, he´d probably had beaten Nibali in the last Giro. I wonder what you said in August ´13 about Contador. I bet you thought he would never be competitive again. If he puts a few things in the right place, things won´t look that bad as now. Some people forget that with a team beside him he´d had won Paris-Nice, Volta and Itzulia...and that only happened a few months ago. You cannot do that being a washed up.

I´m not saying that he´ll be at the level he was in 2014, that´s very unlikely tbh. But i wouldn´t be so confident to asseverate that he cannot fight Nibali a GT.

You overrate, as many others, Nibali. All his GT wins were against rivals like Mosquera, Urán, Peraud and Chaves. That doesn´t mean too much to me.

And not even when he was in his prime was good enough to win one day races. His chances now are even lower than then. Would be a waste of time.

Well, if you want to argue like this:

TDF win 2007 because Rasmussen as best rider was suspended
Giro win 2008 podium: Bruseghin and Pelizzoti (after Ricco DQ)
Vuelta win 2008 podium: Leipheimer as teammate and Sastre with TDF win in his legs
TDF win 2009 podium: Andy Schleck and a Garmin Bradley Wiggins
Vuelta win 2012 podium: Valverde with the TDF in his legs and Purito
Vuelta win 2014 podium: injured TDF Froome and Valverde with TDF in his legs
Giro win 2015 podium: Aru and Landa

Well, i think the Benchmark to win GTs in the years after Lance until Froome and Quintana were the lowest in the last 50 years of cycling. If you were pretty at the same level as Andy Schleck or Evans you were able to win 3 or 4 TDFs from the Pereiro to Wiggins time. And when you went fresh to the vuelta there wasn't be a problem to beat a Valverde with TDF legs as main opponent.

Without a Froome and Quintana in the bunch he likely had won the TDF 2013, maybe the TDF 2015 and the Vuelta 2016. With a Froome and Quintana in the years from 2007-2013 he likely would have won 3-4 GT less. So of course its important which rivals you face. But its not only for Nibali.

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

I'd like to see Contador try a change of approach next season. Ride the Tour as a stage hunter, building toward a super peak for the Vuelta. It's a waste of time him peaking for the Tour and trying to do well in the GC there, because he can't challenge Froome and Quintana there. And it's been a very long time since he even won a stage there, so that would be something good to aim for. Then he can come into the Vuelta with top shape, hopefully win that if Froome and Quintana are on their way down after the Tour. Perhaps he could even hold the peak then to challenge for Milan-Torino or even Lombardia.

If he tries to peak for the Tour again, he won't win anything.

Contador as a stage hunter............Maybe he should just aim for Algarve...

Before doing that he´d do Giro-Vuelta.

But do you really think that Alberto became a champion with a loser mentality? He´s not Virenke nor Basso. He´s a f****** legend ffs.

He hasn't won a Tour de France stage for seven years, and has only won three in his whole career. It would be a decent achievement if he could win a couple more. Certainly better than finishing 5th or 6th in the GC, which would be the alternative. Of course, it's not so easy to win TdF stages, so there is a decent chance he would come away from the Tour with nothing, but he would still have good shape for the Vuelta if he doesn't fight for GC.

It's not a question of having a loser's mentality, it's about being realistic about your ability relative to the rivals. If he goes to the Tour he can't win against Froome and Quintana on top form, and he probably wouldn't do well in the Vuelta after fighting a hard GC battle in the Tour.

Giro would be another good option as long as Nibali doesn't show up. But, instead of padding out his palmares with possible GC podiums against weak fields and taking week long stage races that no-one else is peaking for, I'd prefer him to try to broaden his palmares a bit. Challenge for some one day races or start stage hunting.

I think you´re taking for granted that he´s not going to reach a decent shape anymore, like for example he did in the Giro ´15. And with that shape, he´d probably had beaten Nibali in the last Giro. I wonder what you said in August ´13 about Contador. I bet you thought he would never be competitive again. If he puts a few things in the right place, things won´t look that bad as now. Some people forget that with a team beside him he´d had won Paris-Nice, Volta and Itzulia...and that only happened a few months ago. You cannot do that being a washed up.

I´m not saying that he´ll be at the level he was in 2014, that´s very unlikely tbh. But i wouldn´t be so confident to asseverate that he cannot fight Nibali a GT.

You overrate, as many others, Nibali. All his GT wins were against rivals like Mosquera, Urán, Peraud and Chaves. That doesn´t mean too much to me.

And not even when he was in his prime was good enough to win one day races. His chances now are even lower than then. Would be a waste of time.

Well, if you want to argue like this:

TDF win 2007 because Rasmussen as best rider was suspended
Giro win 2008 podium: Bruseghin and Pelizzoti (after Ricco DQ)
Vuelta win 2008 podium: Leipheimer as teammate and Sastre with TDF win in his legs
TDF win 2009 podium: Andy Schleck and a Garmin Bradley Wiggins
Vuelta win 2012 podium: Valverde with the TDF in his legs and Purito
Vuelta win 2014 podium: injured TDF Froome and Valverde with TDF in his legs
Giro win 2015 podium: Aru and Landa

Well, i think the Benchmark to win GTs in the years after Lance until Froome and Quintana were the lowest in the last 50 years of cycling. If you were pretty at the same level as Andy Schleck or Evans you were able to win 3 or 4 TDFs from the Pereiro to Wiggins time. And when you went fresh to the vuelta there wasn't be a problem to beat a Valverde with TDF legs as main opponent.

Without a Froome and Quintana in the bunch he likely had won the TDF 2013, maybe the TDF 2015 and the Vuelta 2016. With a Froome and Quintana in the years from 2007-2013 he likely would have won 3-4 GT less. So of course its important which rivals you face. But its not only for Nibali.

(Gonna get the popcorns by the way)

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I'd like to see Contador try a change of approach next season. Ride the Tour as a stage hunter, building toward a super peak for the Vuelta. It's a waste of time him peaking for the Tour and trying to do well in the GC there, because he can't challenge Froome and Quintana there. And it's been a very long time since he even won a stage there, so that would be something good to aim for. Then he can come into the Vuelta with top shape, hopefully win that if Froome and Quintana are on their way down after the Tour. Perhaps he could even hold the peak then to challenge for Milan-Torino or even Lombardia.

If he tries to peak for the Tour again, he won't win anything.

Contador as a stage hunter............Maybe he should just aim for Algarve...

Before doing that he´d do Giro-Vuelta.

But do you really think that Alberto became a champion with a loser mentality? He´s not Virenke nor Basso. He´s a f****** legend ffs.

He hasn't won a Tour de France stage for seven years, and has only won three in his whole career. It would be a decent achievement if he could win a couple more. Certainly better than finishing 5th or 6th in the GC, which would be the alternative. Of course, it's not so easy to win TdF stages, so there is a decent chance he would come away from the Tour with nothing, but he would still have good shape for the Vuelta if he doesn't fight for GC.

It's not a question of having a loser's mentality, it's about being realistic about your ability relative to the rivals. If he goes to the Tour he can't win against Froome and Quintana on top form, and he probably wouldn't do well in the Vuelta after fighting a hard GC battle in the Tour.

Giro would be another good option as long as Nibali doesn't show up. But, instead of padding out his palmares with possible GC podiums against weak fields and taking week long stage races that no-one else is peaking for, I'd prefer him to try to broaden his palmares a bit. Challenge for some one day races or start stage hunting.

I think you´re taking for granted that he´s not going to reach a decent shape anymore, like for example he did in the Giro ´15. And with that shape, he´d probably had beaten Nibali in the last Giro. I wonder what you said in August ´13 about Contador. I bet you thought he would never be competitive again. If he puts a few things in the right place, things won´t look that bad as now. Some people forget that with a team beside him he´d had won Paris-Nice, Volta and Itzulia...and that only happened a few months ago. You cannot do that being a washed up.

I´m not saying that he´ll be at the level he was in 2014, that´s very unlikely tbh. But i wouldn´t be so confident to asseverate that he cannot fight Nibali a GT.

You overrate, as many others, Nibali. All his GT wins were against rivals like Mosquera, Urán, Peraud and Chaves. That doesn´t mean too much to me.

And not even when he was in his prime was good enough to win one day races. His chances now are even lower than then. Would be a waste of time.

Well, if you want to argue like this:

TDF win 2007 because Rasmussen as best rider was suspended
Giro win 2008 podium: Bruseghin and Pelizzoti (after Ricco DQ)
Vuelta win 2008 podium: Leipheimer as teammate and Sastre with TDF win in his legs
TDF win 2009 podium: Andy Schleck and a Garmin Bradley Wiggins
Vuelta win 2012 podium: Valverde with the TDF in his legs and Purito
Vuelta win 2014 podium: injured TDF Froome and Valverde with TDF in his legs
Giro win 2015 podium: Aru and Landa

Well, i think the Benchmark to win GTs in the years after Lance until Froome and Quintana were the lowest in the last 50 years of cycling. If you were pretty at the same level as Andy Schleck or Evans you were able to win 3 or 4 TDFs from the Pereiro to Wiggins time. And when you went fresh to the vuelta there wasn't be a problem to beat a Valverde with TDF legs as main opponent.

Without a Froome and Quintana in the bunch he likely had won the TDF 2013, maybe the TDF 2015 and the Vuelta 2016. With a Froome and Quintana in the years from 2007-2013 he likely would have won 3-4 GT less. So of course its important which rivals you face. But its not only for Nibali.

Spot on. Since Nibali became a GC contender in 2010, he has a far stronger GT record than Contador. Winning all three tours, plus three more podiums. Contador's palmares is certainly padded out by the low quality of opposition pre-2010. Since the comeback from his ban, his wins have been less impressive than Nibali's. Just picking up results against riders tired from the Tour or against 2nd/3rd rate GC rivals.

It's quite possible that Contador is at the same level now as in 2009, just that isn't good enough to beat the best riders now. It's clear that both Froome and Quintana are much better GT riders than Evans and Schleck.

 

[Brullnux]

4 more podiums: 2010 Giro, 2011 Giro, 2012 Tour and 2013 Vuelta.

 

[Ataraxus]

Re: Re:

I'd like to see Contador try a change of approach next season. Ride the Tour as a stage hunter, building toward a super peak for the Vuelta. It's a waste of time him peaking for the Tour and trying to do well in the GC there, because he can't challenge Froome and Quintana there. And it's been a very long time since he even won a stage there, so that would be something good to aim for. Then he can come into the Vuelta with top shape, hopefully win that if Froome and Quintana are on their way down after the Tour. Perhaps he could even hold the peak then to challenge for Milan-Torino or even Lombardia.

If he tries to peak for the Tour again, he won't win anything.

Contador as a stage hunter............Maybe he should just aim for Algarve...

Before doing that he´d do Giro-Vuelta.

But do you really think that Alberto became a champion with a loser mentality? He´s not Virenke nor Basso. He´s a f****** legend ffs.

He hasn't won a Tour de France stage for seven years, and has only won three in his whole career. It would be a decent achievement if he could win a couple more. Certainly better than finishing 5th or 6th in the GC, which would be the alternative. Of course, it's not so easy to win TdF stages, so there is a decent chance he would come away from the Tour with nothing, but he would still have good shape for the Vuelta if he doesn't fight for GC.

It's not a question of having a loser's mentality, it's about being realistic about your ability relative to the rivals. If he goes to the Tour he can't win against Froome and Quintana on top form, and he probably wouldn't do well in the Vuelta after fighting a hard GC battle in the Tour.

Giro would be another good option as long as Nibali doesn't show up. But, instead of padding out his palmares with possible GC podiums against weak fields and taking week long stage races that no-one else is peaking for, I'd prefer him to try to broaden his palmares a bit. Challenge for some one day races or start stage hunting.

I think you´re taking for granted that he´s not going to reach a decent shape anymore, like for example he did in the Giro ´15. And with that shape, he´d probably had beaten Nibali in the last Giro. I wonder what you said in August ´13 about Contador. I bet you thought he would never be competitive again. If he puts a few things in the right place, things won´t look that bad as now. Some people forget that with a team beside him he´d had won Paris-Nice, Volta and Itzulia...and that only happened a few months ago. You cannot do that being a washed up.

I´m not saying that he´ll be at the level he was in 2014, that´s very unlikely tbh. But i wouldn´t be so confident to asseverate that he cannot fight Nibali a GT.

You overrate, as many others, Nibali. All his GT wins were against rivals like Mosquera, Urán, Peraud and Chaves. That doesn´t mean too much to me.

And not even when he was in his prime was good enough to win one day races. His chances now are even lower than then. Would be a waste of time.

Well, if you want to argue like this:

TDF win 2007 because Rasmussen as best rider was suspended
Giro win 2008 podium: Bruseghin and Pelizzoti (after Ricco DQ)
Vuelta win 2008 podium: Leipheimer as teammate and Sastre with TDF win in his legs
TDF win 2009 podium: Andy Schleck and a Garmin Bradley Wiggins
Vuelta win 2012 podium: Valverde with the TDF in his legs and Purito
Vuelta win 2014 podium: injured TDF Froome and Valverde with TDF in his legs
Giro win 2015 podium: Aru and Landa

Well, i think the Benchmark to win GTs in the years after Lance until Froome and Quintana were the lowest in the last 50 years of cycling. If you were pretty at the same level as Andy Schleck or Evans you were able to win 3 or 4 TDFs from the Pereiro to Wiggins time. And when you went fresh to the vuelta there wasn't be a problem to beat a Valverde with TDF legs as main opponent.

Without a Froome and Quintana in the bunch he likely had won the TDF 2013, maybe the TDF 2015 and the Vuelta 2016. With a Froome and Quintana in the years from 2007-2013 he likely would have won 3-4 GT less. So of course its important which rivals you face. But its not only for Nibali.[/quote]
Spot on. Since Nibali became a GC contender in 2010, he has a far stronger GT record than Contador. Winning all three tours, plus three more podiums. Contador's palmares is certainly padded out by the low quality of opposition pre-2010. Since the comeback from his ban, his wins have been less impressive than Nibali's. Just picking up results against riders tired from the Tour or against 2nd/3rd rate GC rivals.

It's quite possible that Contador is at the same level now as in 2009, just that isn't good enough to beat the best riders now. It's clear that both Froome and Quintana are much better GT riders than Evans and Schleck.[/quote]

In 2014, these exact words in this thread were considered a blasphemy and immediately sent you to the burning stake.
Either the fanboys have learnt the ignore option or they have started to accept and line up with the reality.

 

[luckyboy]

Re: Re:

There's no way Contador is the same level now as he was 7 years ago. The same year as Verbier? ....

Contador was the dominant top-tier GT racer for several years and now that place is taken by Froome and Quintana. These are the guys who win GTs whoever is in the field. Contador has not been that guy for a few years, but he was. Nibali has never beaten Froome, Quintana, Contador so he is a level below.

The point is you shouldn't be comparing Froome & Quintana to Evans & Schleck. They are now what Contador was in comparison to Evans & Schleck.
Contador is not the same now as he was back then - he hasn't stayed the same and now there are just better riders to challenge him. It's just that Froome & Quintana are this generation's Contador.

 

[Red Rick]

Not this *** again.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Read an interesting article on skysports that brought up the point that one of the reasons Contador has been so "unlucky" with crashes is down to his team. He is often quite isolated in finishes, whereas riders like Froome and Quintana always are sheltered by their team mates and will have a team mate riding directly behind to avoid a rider touching wheels with them. I dunno how credible it is, but it would I think explain a lot (and not just that his bike handling has deteriorated dramatically)

You can fall anywhere. Quintana fell yesterday even though it was not near the finish. One thing I have noticed though is that Movistar and Sky seem to have no trouble holding their formation while Tinkoff even in the Tour was all over the place. Even a good road captain like Mick Rogers could not stop Contador from falling. Sometimes it's just bad luck but Contador has been at fault in some of his recent crashes and he is probably more to blame than anyone else re the Tour and Vuelta crashes. Normally he is a good bike handler but his run of crashes in the Tour would give anyone nightmares.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

There's no way Contador is the same level now as he was 7 years ago. The same year as Verbier? ....

Contador was the dominant top-tier GT racer for several years and now that place is taken by Froome and Quintana. These are the guys who win GTs whoever is in the field. Contador has not been that guy for a few years, but he was. Nibali has never beaten Froome, Quintana, Contador so he is a level below.

The point is you shouldn't be comparing Froome & Quintana to Evans & Schleck. They are now what Contador was in comparison to Evans & Schleck.
Contador is not the same now as he was back then - he hasn't stayed the same and now there are just better riders to challenge him. It's just that Froome & Quintana are this generation's Contador.

If his level is no longer the same, the question then is why, post 2011, did Contador's performances drop off? He should have been reaching his peak in 2012/2013. Potential clinic issues aside, I think it was just a higher quality of opposition meant that a performance that previously would have seen him win, now wasn't good enough. Particularly with Sky riding to watts and with such controlled team performances, his showman attacks lost their potency and effectiveness.

I guess he was lucky that a decent chunk of his career fell in between the Armstrong era and the Froome era, allowing him to dominate for a time.

 

[IMA]

DFA:

"The low quality opposition pre-2010"....what the....Nibali has never won a GT against rivals with the level of Andy Schleck (2009-2011), Riccó (Giro 2008), the best Purito ever (Vuelta a los muritos 2012), or Froome (Vuelta 2014). Do you really think Mosquera, Urán, Peraud (wtf!) or Chaves were at that level?!

"Just picking up results against riders tired from the Tour or against 2nd/3rd rate GC rivals".
You are talking about Nibali here, right? Honestly....tell me so.

You´re a little bit biased if you think that Nibali has ever reached Contador´s best level. And if you think Contador is currently as strong as he was in 2009...this conversation is definitely a waste of time.

 

[LaFlorecita]

For god's sake the ignorant haters are out to play again. Just go away.

Alberto responds to the people who say he should retire:

"Sinceramente, si acabara mi carrera con un abandono en el Tour y una mala posición Vuelta no me gustaría para nada. Por eso, también pienso en 2017"
"Honestly, if I would end my career with an abandon at the Tour and a bad position at the Vuelta I wouldn't like it at all. Because of this, I also think about 2017.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

There's no way Contador is the same level now as he was 7 years ago. The same year as Verbier? ....

Contador was the dominant top-tier GT racer for several years and now that place is taken by Froome and Quintana. These are the guys who win GTs whoever is in the field. Contador has not been that guy for a few years, but he was. Nibali has never beaten Froome, Quintana, Contador so he is a level below.

The point is you shouldn't be comparing Froome & Quintana to Evans & Schleck. They are now what Contador was in comparison to Evans & Schleck.
Contador is not the same now as he was back then - he hasn't stayed the same and now there are just better riders to challenge him. It's just that Froome & Quintana are this generation's Contador.

I think you are underestimating Evans and Andy. If Contador was that much better back then, Andy and Evans still made Contador work for his wins and some were narrow wins. Quintana has won one GT so he is hardly at the same level as Froome or the younger Contador. And who did he beat ? Uran who has not done much since. Yes Contador is not the rider he was but neither was Froome who improved a lot. I think the constant crashes and injuries have taken a toll on Contador more than the age. You can't get any momentum in a grand tour when you are always playing catch up and getting injured. His run of problems in the Tour has been hard to believe.

 

[DFA123]

DFA:

"The low quality opposition pre-2010"....what the....Nibali has never won a GT against rivals with the level of Andy Schleck (2009-2011), Riccó (Giro 2008), the best Purito ever (Vuelta a los muritos 2012), or Froome (Vuelta 2014). Do you really think Mosquera, Urán, Peraud (wtf!) or Chaves were at that level?!

"Just picking up results against riders tired from the Tour or against 2nd/3rd rate GC rivals".
You are talking about Nibali here, right? Honestly....tell me so.

You´re a little bit biased if you think that Nibali has ever reached Contador´s best level. And if you think Contador is currently as strong as he was in 2009...this conversation is definitely a waste of time.

Well, I don't really want to dwell on an extended comparison between the two, this isn't really the thread for that. I just feel that, post 2011, Contador has padded out his palmares by beating sub par or tired opposition in the Giro and Vuelta, while generally failing at the Tour against the top riders. Which is basically what Nibali has done as well in the same time period, only more successfully.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

For god's sake the ignorant haters are out to play again. Just go away.

Alberto responds to the people who say he should retire:

"Sinceramente, si acabara mi carrera con un abandono en el Tour y una mala posición Vuelta no me gustaría para nada. Por eso, también pienso en 2017"
"Honestly, if I would end my career with an abandon at the Tour and a bad position at the Vuelta I wouldn't like it at all. Because of this, I also think about 2017.

From that it sounds like he has given up on this Vuelta already. He should at least respect his current team and fight for a podium.