Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Tinkov is such a jerk. His arguments are empty, i think he is angry because he didn´t win NEVER THE TOUR. But the only guy that gave him big victorys it was Contador, and maybe he is upset with the good results Contador has this year.

I tottaly disagree when people say he is not doing well. Sure i would prefer he have win all the races, but a guy that make 4 2nd places i think it´s good, it´s very good. It´s not superb, because until now superb just Valverde, but if Contador hasn´t being perform well what should we say about 99.9% of the other riders that made, 3 rd, 4th, 5th, and so on, so on.

Maybe he will not win the Tour, but i think Tinkov Has affraid of that. What should that weasel say if that happens... I would love to see...

He will explode and I want to see it

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Tinkov is such a jerk. His arguments are empty, i think he is angry because he didn´t win NEVER THE TOUR. But the only guy that gave him big victorys it was Contador, and maybe he is upset with the good results Contador has this year.

I tottaly disagree when people say he is not doing well. Sure i would prefer he have win all the races, but a guy that make 4 2nd places i think it´s good, it´s very good. It´s not superb, because until now superb just Valverde, but if Contador hasn´t being perform well what should we say about 99.9% of the other riders that made, 3 rd, 4th, 5th, and so on, so on.

Maybe he will not win the Tour, but i think Tinkov Has affraid of that. What should that weasel say if that happens... I would love to see...

2nd places are good results? For the salary Contador is getting 2nd place mean **** all

He's just angry he wasted so much money on rider past it, someone clearly advised him wrongly what Contador could do :lol:

His salary is probably a lot lower at Trek than it was at Tinkoff. Contador or his manager is clearly better at doing business than Tinkov, very smart to extend his contract right after beating Froome at the Vuelta.
So yeah, Contador's results didn't match his salary. It's not his fault, it happens, you can't really predict how a rider will perform. Tough luck for Tinkov. It's not an excuse for him to violently abuse Contador.

 

[Cookster15]

Re: Re:

Tinkov is such a jerk. His arguments are empty, i think he is angry because he didn´t win NEVER THE TOUR. But the only guy that gave him big victorys it was Contador, and maybe he is upset with the good results Contador has this year.

I tottaly disagree when people say he is not doing well. Sure i would prefer he have win all the races, but a guy that make 4 2nd places i think it´s good, it´s very good. It´s not superb, because until now superb just Valverde, but if Contador hasn´t being perform well what should we say about 99.9% of the other riders that made, 3 rd, 4th, 5th, and so on, so on.

Maybe he will not win the Tour, but i think Tinkov Has affraid of that. What should that weasel say if that happens... I would love to see...

He will explode and I want to see it

While I have great respect for Alberto he isn't one of my favourite riders. But if he makes Tinkov explode by winning the Tour that would make my day.

 

[Escarabajo]

Tinkov is an idiot! regardless of what Contador does this year.

Contador still won some good races for him.

 

[Irondan]

Does anyone think that Tinkov could be using reverse psychology on Alberto?

Tinkov knows that he's going to get under Alberto's skin with what he's saying, maybe he's doing it as an extra motivator? The best way for Alberto to respond to Tinkov is to win the Tour, maybe Tinkov knows that what he's saying will light a fire with Alberto to give him that extra 1% he needs to go from 2nd place finishes to 1st place?

I don't really know if this theory holds water, it was just a thought....

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Does anyone think that Tinkov could be using reverse psychology on Alberto?

Tinkov knows that he's going to get under Alberto's skin with what he's saying, maybe he's doing it as an extra motivator? The best way for Alberto to respond to Tinkov is to win the Tour, maybe Tinkov knows that what he's saying will light a fire with Alberto to give him that extra 1% he needs to go from 2nd place finishes to 1st place?

I don't really know if this theory holds water, it was just a thought....

I was thinking myself that Contador will take the extra motivation but a rider like Contador never needs motivation from others. If he has another Tour off the podium expect Tinkov to be all over Twitter saying I told you so.

 

[Electress]

Tinkov's nastiness is way beyond excusable by a perceived professional disappointment, no matter what the money he invested - if that is, indeed, Tinkov's problem. Tinkov's tweets are utterly disgraceful. I just hope Contador continues to ignore it.

 

[WheelofGear]

Contador should use the Oleg's kindergarten insults as a an extra motivator. Show him who is the boss.

 

[peloton]

Who gives a f what Nuttie thinks or says. I don't, he's thankfully gone from the sport

 

[DFA123]

A lot of personal insults towards Tinkov in the last couple of pages here, looks a bit unedifying and I dont think people should lower themselves to his level of language by responding in kind. Would be much more interesting to find out what is his motivation for all this bile.

Tinkov knows Contador personally better than everyone on this forum I guess, so he's in a better position to make character judgements than any of us - positive or negative. And if you look beyond his ridiculous insults, he's obviously very bitter and angry about something Contador did (or perhaps didn't do) - it seems to me from his tweets that he feels Contador didn't integrate himself in the team and remained a bit aloof. Something that would re-inforce the view that the team split last year when Majka and Kreuziger seemed luke-warm in their support towards him. Hopefully, for Contador, he can do this better at Trek and get the team to really buy into his TdF hopes - because with the likes of Degenkolb, Felline, Mollema and possibly Pantano they have riders who may have half an eye or more on their own goals if Contador doesn't lead them 100% effectively.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I remain amazed by Tinkov's complaining about Contador's results, even now that he no longer races for him. Why would he care what Contador achieves this season? Clearly Tinkov has a deep hatred against Contador probably as the result of Contador not winning the Tour and some stuff to do with alcohol and hookers (seriously, what other reason could there be for Tinkov's obsessive and downright creepy comments that Contador should start "f***ing his wife" - this is I believe the 3rd time he's mentioned something along those lines). He's like an open book. The things that annoyed him about Contador are the same he uses to attack him now: not winning enough, too obsessed with diet, no alcohol etc.
I dearly hope the cycling media will stop giving him attention because he isn't going to shut up anytime soon. If Contador manages to win the Tour he'll only get louder. Hopefully his 15 minutes of fame come to an end soon.

About Kreuziger, I'm not at all surprised he revolted last year. He does not really consider himself less than his leaders (wasn't there some drama in his Liquigas years to do with him not wanting to work for Nibali because he considered himself better?) which makes him hardly a loyal teammate. Add to that the 2013 TDF which obviously planted some seeds of discontent and without Mick Rogers as road captain on and off the road it was a catastrophe waiting to happen.

Right now, many of his teammates seem very loyal (Pantano, Gogl, Cardoso, Bernard, Zubeldia, Irizar and more) so hopefully we'll see Alberto surrounded by a team finally. I'm just worried about Mollema but after racing the Giro I don't think he'll have any illusions about what he could achieve at the Tour. It will be a disadvantage to share the leadership with Degenkolb but fortunately even the men that will likely be assigned to Degenkolb (De Kort, Theuns/Stuyven) seem willing to assist Alberto if necessary.

 

[loge1884]

Re:

I remain amazed by Tinkov's complaining about Contador's results, even now that he no longer races for him. Why would he care what Contador achieves this season? Clearly Tinkov has a deep hatred against Contador probably as the result of Contador not winning the Tour and some stuff to do with alcohol and hookers (seriously, what other reason could there be for Tinkov's obsessive and downright creepy comments that Contador should start "f***ing his wife" (1)- this is I believe the 3rd time he's mentioned something along those lines). He's like an open book. The things that annoyed him about Contador are the same he uses to attack him now: not winning enough, too obsessed with diet, no alcohol etc.
I dearly hope the cycling media will stop giving him attention(2) because he isn't going to shut up anytime soon. If Contador manages to win the Tour he'll only get louder. Hopefully his 15 minutes of fame come to an end soon.

(1) I can't give any kind of weight to a person using such foul-mouthed statements
(2) In a perfect world all media would simply ignore any person obviously having some issues expressing itself in an acceptable manner. In the real world unfortunately profanities are likely to generate clicks ....

 

[DFA123]

Re:

About Kreuziger, I'm not at all surprised he revolted last year. He does not really consider himself less than his leaders (wasn't there some drama in his Liquigas years to do with him not wanting to work for Nibali because he considered himself better?) which makes him hardly a loyal teammate. Add to that the 2013 TDF which obviously planted some seeds of discontent and without Mick Rogers as road captain on and off the road it was a catastrophe waiting to happen.

Right now, many of his teammates seem very loyal (Pantano, Gogl, Cardoso, Bernard, Zubeldia, Irizar and more) so hopefully we'll see Alberto surrounded by a team finally. I'm just worried about Mollema but after racing the Giro I don't think he'll have any illusions about what he could achieve at the Tour. It will be a disadvantage to share the leadership with Degenkolb but fortunately even the men that will likely be assigned to Degenkolb (De Kort, Theuns/Stuyven) seem willing to assist Alberto if necessary.

He's certainly missed Rogers, and hopefully he'll have learnt from his time at Tinkov that he needs to show more leadership himself. It seemed as though the team was split firmly into two camps (Sagan and the other Eastern Europeans like Kreuziger, Majka, Bodnar) and then Contador with this handful of friends who aren't really good enough at the highest level. He can't afford to let this happen again at Trek, and I think needs to show his leadership and integrate well to get the respect from riders like Degenkolb and Mollema - who can both be massively valuable to him at the Tour in various situations. The riders who are 'loyal' to him, are not really good enough apart from Pantano to make a huge difference you would think. The best riders that can help him, are also the ones with the biggest egos (like Kreuziger) and who will need the most convincing and best leadership - I think that is something Contador needs to work on and get a fully committed team at the Tour.

I can understand why Tinkov would be upset having spent so much money on a guy who didn't really integrate into the team, or show the leadership you would expect from a GT champion. But, obviously his way of expressing that frustration is ridiculous and undermines what he is saying. It doesn't mean there's not a grain of truth in it though and lessons that Contador could learn from.

 

[IMA]

Re:

A lot of personal insults towards Tinkov in the last couple of pages here, looks a bit unedifying and I dont think people should lower themselves to his level of language by responding in kind. Would be much more interesting to find out what is his motivation for all this bile.

Tinkov knows Contador personally better than everyone on this forum I guess, so he's in a better position to make character judgements than any of us - positive or negative. And if you look beyond his ridiculous insults, he's obviously very bitter and angry about something Contador did (or perhaps didn't do) - it seems to me from his tweets that he feels Contador didn't integrate himself in the team and remained a bit aloof. Something that would re-inforce the view that the team split last year when Majka and Kreuziger seemed luke-warm in their support towards him. Hopefully, for Contador, he can do this better at Trek and get the team to really buy into his TdF hopes - because with the likes of Degenkolb, Felline, Mollema and possibly Pantano they have riders who may have half an eye or more on their own goals if Contador doesn't lead them 100% effectively.

Oh boy...that´s very kind of you. Trying to understand such a psycho it´s a very nice gesture...The problem is that when it comes to disrespect Contador you always seem very understanding with the other part.

I must be a horrible person cause I think the most generous gesture you can make towards a guy so *** in the head is to ignore him.

I mean if the worst things he can say about Contador it´s that he doesn´t speak a good English (neither does he), that he´s obssesed with his weight and that he doesn´t *** his wife properly...well, i guess the only one with the right to complain here should be Macarena...unless Oleg was jealous because Alberto didn´t take care of his back door.

After the Vuelta ´14 Alberto was the best and all the other riders were just cowards because they didn´t want to tackle the Giro-Tour. And after the Tour ´15 he went to the opposite extreme. That tells me that Olga is just the kind of person who doesn´t take into account any circumstances. He just cares about results. And with someone like that is very difficult to come to an agreement about anything.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

A lot of personal insults towards Tinkov in the last couple of pages here, looks a bit unedifying and I dont think people should lower themselves to his level of language by responding in kind. Would be much more interesting to find out what is his motivation for all this bile.

Tinkov knows Contador personally better than everyone on this forum I guess, so he's in a better position to make character judgements than any of us - positive or negative. And if you look beyond his ridiculous insults, he's obviously very bitter and angry about something Contador did (or perhaps didn't do) - it seems to me from his tweets that he feels Contador didn't integrate himself in the team and remained a bit aloof. Something that would re-inforce the view that the team split last year when Majka and Kreuziger seemed luke-warm in their support towards him. Hopefully, for Contador, he can do this better at Trek and get the team to really buy into his TdF hopes - because with the likes of Degenkolb, Felline, Mollema and possibly Pantano they have riders who may have half an eye or more on their own goals if Contador doesn't lead them 100% effectively.

I must be a horrible person cause I think the most generous gesture you can make towards a guy so **** in the head is to ignore him..

Perhaps you're right; it's probably best not to read too much into what he says either way.

I mean if the worst things he can say about Contador it´s that he doesn´t speak a good English (neither does he), that he´s obssesed with his weight and that he doesn´t **** his wife properly...well, i guess the only one with the right to complain here should be Macarena...unless Oleg was jealous because Alberto didn´t take care of his back door.

After the Vuelta ´14 Alberto was the best and all the other riders were just cowards because they didn´t want to tackle the Giro-Tour. And after the Tour ´15 he went to the opposite extreme. That tells me that Olga is just the kind of person who doesn´t take into account any circumstances. He just cares about results. And with someone like that is very difficult to come to an agreement about anything.

Oh. I see your advice is just meant for others.

In these kind of situations it's not usually one person 100% at fault and the other blameless. I think Contador himself probably accepts that there are valuable lessons he can learn from his time at Tinkov. Tinkov's insults and ridiculous statements don't change that.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I mean if the worst things he can say about Contador it´s that he doesn´t speak a good English (neither does he), that he´s obssesed with his weight and that he doesn´t **** his wife properly...well, i guess the only one with the right to complain here should be Macarena...unless Oleg was jealous because Alberto didn´t take care of his back door.

I'm cackling :lol: :lol: :lol:
This forum needs a like button

 

[filipepc]

Re: Re:

Tinkov is such a jerk. His arguments are empty, i think he is angry because he didn´t win NEVER THE TOUR. But the only guy that gave him big victorys it was Contador, and maybe he is upset with the good results Contador has this year.

I tottaly disagree when people say he is not doing well. Sure i would prefer he have win all the races, but a guy that make 4 2nd places i think it´s good, it´s very good. It´s not superb, because until now superb just Valverde, but if Contador hasn´t being perform well what should we say about 99.9% of the other riders that made, 3 rd, 4th, 5th, and so on, so on.

Maybe he will not win the Tour, but i think Tinkov Has affraid of that. What should that weasel say if that happens... I would love to see...

2nd places are good results? For the salary Contador is getting 2nd place mean **** all

He's just angry he wasted so much money on rider past it, someone clearly advised him wrongly what Contador could do :lol:

I understand your arguments, but 2 nd places aren´t good? Well, it is the best you can achieve if you don´t win. So when you do second even if it is not great is a good result. That´s how i see it. There are plenty of riders that would love to do a 2nd place.

About his salary, well, he is a top rider, he is still a GT contender, a one week races contender it is normal that he receive well. If Tinkov still feels ungry about the money he spent, well, that´s his problem. He in a lunatic, a rich guy that wanted to play with money like a toy, so he payed what he wanted. Contador, i guess dind´t point a gun to his head to be well paid. His a jerk, a weasel, and to me a person without principles, so even if i would love to see Contador win the Tour just because he is my favorite rider, i would love more to see that arrogant guy being shut up by a cyclist that is one of the best GT riders ever, enven if some of you don´t like him.

I am a guy that love cyclism, i don´t just like Contador, i like plenty of riders and i enjoy the most of the races of the all year, and so, i will repeat that it is normal to me if Contador doesn´t win the Tour because Froome, Quintana, and his plenty of falls in almost every races he enter, give me little hopes, but he has a chance, even if it is just 10%. And if he can do it... Tinkov i will wait to read what you have to say.

 

[Pennino]

It's just this: http://www.velonews.com/2013/12/news/tinkov-criticism-of-contador-on-twitter-went-too-far_310925.

Let us just have one real mano a mano with Froome or other contenders in July. Just once...

 

[Valv.Piti]

Tinkov is a jerk, but I listened to a Danish podcast yesterday featuring Brian Vandborg who honestly didn't have that much good things to say about Contador apart from the fact that he obviously respects him and enjoys his riding style. He pointed to the fact that he didn't feel he knew him at all (compared to Ivan Basso and Andy Schleck, especially Basso) and he was very annoyed with the fact that something seemingly always was wrong. He also described that 2011 Tour as the worst he ever experience as a bike rider, Contador crashing many times and isolating himself with the Spaniards, Saxo Bank being booed everywhere, Bjarne Riis being a pain in the ass because everything went wrong etc.

Chris Anker has also hinted a few times now that he really didn't enjoy Contador's personality because he failed to integrate himself with the rest of the squad.

 

[rhubroma]

Russian nouveau riche...all that money, zero class. That Dave Brailsford once said he's "got lots of time for Oleg," demonstrates what types of characters propel this sport. At any rate, Tinkov's falling out with another dubious character, Riis, was the rift that brought his ego in conflict with his star rider. Never a fortuitous occurrence. As far as AC is concerned, his cultural milieu is evidently problematical for the non-Latin riders. I say non-Latin, because he appears to have a strong friendship with Basso.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Well the Tour was the first (and only) race Vandborg ever did with Contador so of course he felt like he didn't know him at all compared to Basso and Schleck, with whom he shared teams for multiple years.
Also it seems unfair to blame the fans booing them and Riis' bad temper on Contador (although he was obviously the main reason for it)
Anyway none of this is a surprise to me because Karsten Kroon said something similar about Contador building a cocoon around himself (although he was way more understanding about it than these two appear to be, at least from the way you're describing it) and Bruyneel told a similar story a while ago (but let's not pretend he wasn't to blame as well) but why is it such a big deal that's what introverts do when they're in a group of people they don't really know at all. It also shows how important it is for Contador to have a team around him with people he knows and trusts.
So even if he isn't the easiest person to work with, none of the above is an excuse for Tinkov's abuse. What if Evans had been his team leader?!

Maybe the best way to judge him is by comparing the people that like him to those that hate him... so if it's people like Scarponi, Roche, Rogers and Basso on one side verse people like Tinkov and Kreuziger on the other... what are we even talking about?

 

[glassmoon]

Re:

Tinkov is an idiot! regardless of what Contador does this year.

Contador still won some good races for him.

wonder why he isn't bashing Sagan and his "6 mil. results" this season so far... i guess he just doesn't like AC much for whatever reason. it's kinda personal imho.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Russian nouveau riche...all that money, zero class. That Dave Brailsford once said he's "got lots of time for Oleg," demonstrates what types of characters propel this sport. At any rate, Tinkov's falling out with another dubious character, Rijs, was the rift that brought his ego in conflict with his star rider. Never a fortuitous occurrence. As far as AC is concerned, his cultural milieu is evidently problematical for the non-Latin riders. I say non-Latin, because he appears to have a strong friendship with Basso.

I'm not sure it's a cultural thing (although it obviously plays a big role) because he seems to have a good relationship with for example Roche (although maybe he is a strange case because he's so French) and of course De Jongh. I'd say it's much more of a personality thing.

Although this reminds me that last year, I worried that the Tour team was lacking South European influence and this would make Alberto less comfortable... people called me paranoid but look what happened

 

[Valv.Piti]

Just laying it out to contribute with meaningful opinions from the actual peloton who has worked for Contador to get a sense of him as a person and why Tinkov is criticising him so much (well a minor part of that).

How Vandborg described the 2011 Tour wasn't to criticise Contador (more just in general how shitty that race was from Saxo), as you say Contador was obviously indirectly the reason for some of that, but that wasn't aimed at him at all apart from the fact he was/is quick to isolate himself. The things about Riis and the booing was just to underline how bad of a race it actually was, how unpleasant it was and how basically everything wen't wrong. Must have been dreadful for anyone involved..

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Tinkov is a jerk, but I listened to a Danish podcast yesterday featuring Brian Vandborg who honestly didn't have that much good things to say about Contador apart from the fact that he obviously respects him and enjoys his riding style. He pointed to the fact that he didn't feel he knew him at all (compared to Ivan Basso and Andy Schleck, especially Basso) and he was very annoyed with the fact that something seemingly always was wrong. He also described that 2011 Tour as the worst he ever experience as a bike rider, Contador crashing many times and isolating himself with the Spaniards, Saxo Bank being booed everywhere, Bjarne Riis being a pain in the *** because everything went wrong etc.

Chris Anker has also hinted a few times now that he really didn't enjoy Contador's personality because he failed to integrate himself with the rest of the squad.

Rodgers obviously isn't Spanish and only seemed to have good things to say about Contador. I never heard Porte or Roche say anything bad about him either. Not everyone needs to know someone socially to like them and respect them. Working with them may not be the same but they seemed to have a good working relationship with him. Some people are introverted and don't need to have a lot of friends. 2011 is probably a bad example because everything did go wrong ! Oddly with all of the problems he had in 2011 he still finished the race in the top five but has struggled to do the same since then. 2013 was probably more about his shape than anything else.