Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[cellardoor]

On a more philosophical level, is this the way life tells you to back off? "error" after error, misfortune after misfortune, continued bad luck in your efforts? Is there no dignified retirement?

He who shall not be named, aka Lance Armstrong, had the only dignified retirement I can remember ... for 4 years. Then, he came back and f*cked everything up.

I see your Armstrong and raise with Bettini.

 

[cellardoor]

Re: Re:

I don't think he cares, saving energy for a go at a stage win tomorrow

He certainly didn't save energy as he was working on the front of his group.

Really? I never saw him until the finish line!

Yeah. His group was picked up 2 or 3 times and he seemed to be taking turns on the front. As far as I could tell he had no teammates and there were no other GC contenders in the group.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

No, he should go on CdF and catch his 2 teammates in the valley. Then try to hang on to his lead at Telegraphe+Galibier.

Which teammates?

Attacking on Croix de Fer would mean a 100k+ marathon (vs 60 attacking on Télégraphe), he doesn't have the endurance.

Mollema, his by far best teammate.
By the way, extremely interesting with Landa. Dream scenario if that happens. Lets see how well Quintana has recovered.

 

[DFA123]

Strange ride by Contador today. Why not just lose 20 minutes and try to get in the break, instead of losing enough time to fall out of the top 10, but not enough to be allowed much rope from the minor GC guys?

 

[Climber123]

Re:

Strange ride by Contador today. Why not just lose 20 minutes and try to get in the break, instead of losing enough time to fall out of the top 10, but not enough to be allowed much rope from the minor GC guys?

As long as Sky and AG2R don't mind it will not be a problem. Who else can bring him back?

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Strange ride by Contador today. Why not just lose 20 minutes and try to get in the break, instead of losing enough time to fall out of the top 10, but not enough to be allowed much rope from the minor GC guys?

As long as Sky and AG2R don't mind it will not be a problem. Who else can bring him back?

I imagine that Orica, UAE and BMC will all look to defend their top 10 positions. Just seems strange to me why he didn't just lose loads of time today; it would save a lot of energy and mean he would be completely unmarked tomorrow to go for a potential stage win.

Instead he's managed to still lose minutes on the GC, while also wasting energy and not losing enough to be unmarked for the next two stages. Not the brightest tactics imo, unless Trek are telling him he has to ride for a top 10.

 

[Red Rick]

How many domestiques are gonna survive if Contador really goes for it on a climb like the Croix de Fer?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Strange ride by Contador today. Why not just lose 20 minutes and try to get in the break, instead of losing enough time to fall out of the top 10, but not enough to be allowed much rope from the minor GC guys?

Do you really think he lost time on purpose?

He'll be back in the top-10 tomorrow - I'm confident he'll pass Quintana, Caruso and Meintjes in the next 2 days. 8th is still a poor position though for as big a champion as Berto, I kinda wish he'd be able to sneak into the top-5, after all that's happened this TDF that'd be a decent result. But he's 5 minutes behind 7th place at the moment so it looks highly unlikely, you never known though, in the TT he could take up to 2 minutes on Martin and Yates.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Of course I would have preferred to be more in the front. But I have to admit that this is a completely different situation than when you are defending the GC.

He doesn't seem too bothered

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Strange ride by Contador today. Why not just lose 20 minutes and try to get in the break, instead of losing enough time to fall out of the top 10, but not enough to be allowed much rope from the minor GC guys?

Do you really think he lost time on purpose?

He'll be back in the top-10 tomorrow - I'm confident he'll pass Quintana, Caruso and Meintjes in the next 2 days. 8th is still a poor position though for as big a champion as Berto, I kinda wish he'd be able to sneak into the top-5, after all that's happened this TDF that'd be a decent result. But he's 5 minutes behind 7th place at the moment so it looks highly unlikely, you never known though, in the TT he could take up to 2 minutes on Martin and Yates.

I just think at this stage in his career, and with the position in the race, a great stage win in the mountains would be much better than just sneaking into the top 10 overall. The latter would be regarded as a resounding failure, even it would represent a reasonable result given the current standings. The former would at least give him and his fans a nice highlights reel moment to remember, as he retires from the Tour.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Strange ride by Contador today. Why not just lose 20 minutes and try to get in the break, instead of losing enough time to fall out of the top 10, but not enough to be allowed much rope from the minor GC guys?

Do you really think he lost time on purpose?

He'll be back in the top-10 tomorrow - I'm confident he'll pass Quintana, Caruso and Meintjes in the next 2 days. 8th is still a poor position though for as big a champion as Berto, I kinda wish he'd be able to sneak into the top-5, after all that's happened this TDF that'd be a decent result. But he's 5 minutes behind 7th place at the moment so it looks highly unlikely, you never known though, in the TT he could take up to 2 minutes on Martin and Yates.

I just think at this stage in his career, and with the position in the race, a great stage win in the mountains would be much better than just sneaking into the top 10 overall. The latter would be regarded as a resounding failure, even it would represent a reasonable result given the current standings. The former would at least give him and his fans a nice highlights reel moment to remember, as he retires from the Tour.

Yes, which is why his goal is to win a stage. However, it's not like him to just lose 30 minutes and be allowed to win because he's no threat, he's too proud for that.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Strange ride by Contador today. Why not just lose 20 minutes and try to get in the break, instead of losing enough time to fall out of the top 10, but not enough to be allowed much rope from the minor GC guys?

Do you really think he lost time on purpose?

He'll be back in the top-10 tomorrow - I'm confident he'll pass Quintana, Caruso and Meintjes in the next 2 days. 8th is still a poor position though for as big a champion as Berto, I kinda wish he'd be able to sneak into the top-5, after all that's happened this TDF that'd be a decent result. But he's 5 minutes behind 7th place at the moment so it looks highly unlikely, you never known though, in the TT he could take up to 2 minutes on Martin and Yates.

I just think at this stage in his career, and with the position in the race, a great stage win in the mountains would be much better than just sneaking into the top 10 overall. The latter would be regarded as a resounding failure, even it would represent a reasonable result given the current standings. The former would at least give him and his fans a nice highlights reel moment to remember, as he retires from the Tour.

Yes, which is why his goal is to win a stage. However, it's not like him to just lose 30 minutes and be allowed to win because he's no threat, he's too proud for that.

That's kind of what I'm getting at; surely he has to put his pride to one side? He's not in the shape to win a stage the day after working hard and while other teams may be motivated to chase him down. He surely should be optimizing his chances to win a stage at this point, even if he loses a bit face. Makes me think that Trek are telling him not to throw away the GC, maybe because they want the points from a top 10 finish.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Well, clearly he believes he has the legs to win a stage despite not being super far back on GC. Anyway, I personally can't see it happening, but let's wait and see.

 

[Red Rick]

If he's really good on the Izoard he should have a decent chance even there cause who's gonna chase him down there?

 

[iGROTROn]

I have one question. Why Zubeldia is in yhe team? He stay all day at the back and did NOTING...

 

[DFA123]

Re:

I have one question. Why Zubeldia is in yhe team? He stay all day at the back and did NOTING...

Trek are every man for themselves now aren't they? Mollema's got a stage win, Degenkolb nearly did today as well. Maybe Zubeldia is planning an attack tomorrow or the day after and so was taking it easy today.

 

[Jelantik]

Not sure why he lost time today. Not enough to be the unmarked, but still on the radar from this minor placing GC team. So far he and Degenkolb are Trek's biggest sign, and both of them came with goose egg so far. Either string of second, third place or none at all. Molema on the other hand has contributed his part. A win on the early season and a stage win at TDF. Maybe minor placing doesn't really matter for Contador, but for the sponsor and his team does matter. I'm so used of expecting him to do something, just to see him getting drop or going nowhere. So for the next two days, if he manages to attack or win the stage great, if not, there's plenty of entertainment to watch between the real contenders. Even if this is Froome's race to loose. It's just such unfortunate when Froome doesn't look like as dominate as he was, Contador wasn't even there to at least fight for it. O well...

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

If he's really good on the Izoard he should have a decent chance even there cause who's gonna chase him down there?

I've thought about that and it is a possibility, but he needs to be really strong, as in, 'would normally lose less than 30s to Froome'-strong. After all, I expect the Sky train to ride a high tempo to keep things together before Froome takes off, and if his legs aren't too great he won't be far enough ahead to take his advantage to the line.
Of course, it's also highly possible he screws himself over by attacking on Col de Vars, or that a breakaway gets too far ahead. So anyway, as I said I'm not very optimistic.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Remember the argument about Degenkolb fluking a stage win? That was damn close. And Mollema is surely proving his worth, he has been very good this Tour and will be at his best in the Alps. He could be heading into his peak next year and scrap for a podium in TdF after going this hard for 2 straight GTs, thats a good base, Valverde-style.

Telegraphe is too late tomorrow, but it all depends on the race situation. I will wait eagerly to watch him go on Croix de Fer (where is Madeleine, have they abandoned that climb?) with Landa, Barguil and hopefully Quintana.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Remember the argument about Degenkolb fluking a stage win? That was damn close. And Mollema is surely proving his worth, he has been very good this Tour and will be at his best in the Alps. He could be heading into his peak next year and scrap for a podium in TdF after going this hard for 2 straight GTs, thats a good base, Valverde-style.

Uphill Mollema has looked nothing short of crap. Yes, super impressive stage win that was, but even on that stage he was only the 4th or 5th best climber out of the break. Proving his worth? He hasn't really done anything for Berto, I think today was the first time I saw him working for him, ok and I suppose he took a few pulls on the last few km of stage 9.

Telegraphe is too late tomorrow, but it all depends on the race situation. I will wait eagerly to watch him go on Croix de Fer (where is Madeleine, have they abandoned that climb?) with Landa, Barguil and hopefully Quintana.

Télégraphe isn't too late, Croix de Fer is way too early. It would be a big mistake to attack there as it would be certain suicide, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's exactly what Alberto is going to do, in fact it's the most likely scenario I'd say.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Thats extremely harsh on Mollema, he has won a stage and been with Contador in a few crucial situations, helping to reduce the gap. Thats a lot more than you can say about just about anyone on that team. If Mollema has been crap uphill, I wonder what that does make Pantani (who hasn't got a Giro in his legs)?...... Guy hasn't been anywhere and was of no use on the Chat-stage, at least Mollema was.

And no, I think Telegraphe is too late. At that point it will be full control from Sky with their best doms. Relatively easy to control.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Thats extremely harsh on Mollema, he has won a stage and been with Contador in a few crucial situations, helping to reduce the gap. Thats a lot more than you can say about just about anyone on that team. If Mollema has been crap uphill, I wonder what that does make Pantani (who hasn't got a Giro in his legs)?...... Guy hasn't been anywhere and was of no use on the Chat-stage, at least Mollema was.

And no, I think Telegraphe is too late. At that point it will be full control from Sky with their best doms. Relatively easy to control.

Yes, Pantano has been really disappointing as well. As I said, Mollema's stage win was impressive but uphill he has been of no help whatsoever.

Télégraphe may be controlled by the Sky train but attacking there is still a better option than attacking on Croix de Fer, which would guarantee he'll be caught before the summit of Galibier and dropped like a stone.

 

[lenric]

Don't forget that he's a crappy descender, so attacking at Croix de Fer, with a long descent ahead, would be a gamble, since he'd likely be caught... moreover if it will likely be raining all day.
Telegraphe seems a better option, as I have already mentioned a couple of days ago: not a too long ascent, nor a too long descent ahead and then the last mountain of the day. It will be a stage almost twice longer than the last one where he attacked, so his endurance will be tested... which is where most of the doubts lay.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Doesn't seem like a man who can't compete to me: http://www.climbing-records.com/2017/07/the-speeds-explode-on-road-to-foix.html?m=1

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Even though I know it doesn't really matter, these minute here, twenty second here losses are brutal to watch as a fan. Rationally, I know he's out of it, but there's the fanboy in me that still hopes for a miracle. I might be crazy, but I think he'd be within a minute or two if he'd never crashed.