Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Jelantik]

Hm i don't know. It's definitely out of his character. But I won't read it too much on that. He is a racer with heart of a champion. So, he won't show up just to lay down and play dead to Froome. So we probably are the one who has too high of a hope for him, and expecting good means he'll destroy his opponents.

If you take a look Contador preban and post band, the changes that happens on him is interesting. I'm not talking about his strength, but more about him as a person. Before the ban, in my opinion, he was more insecure, more inclusive to his spanish circles, he also projected more about himself, judging from his pistol icon showed up on his team bike. Why is this matter. If i can recall, none of the GT winner or champions has their icon on their team material. Riders usually get a stripe of colors for winning GT, or world champion, but the least they got their "nickname". Anyway, that's why i thought it has some significance on how he branded himself within his team.

Fast forward, post ban, I saw him a lot more mature, a lot more confidence, a lot more relax, a lot more open in my opinion compare to before. From his interview, during the race, he shows more and more about his team mate (maybe before he did too, we just never see it publicly. Thanks to twitter I guess) and more about his team. Last vuelta, if I'm not mistaken, I didn't see any pistol icon on his bike anymore, and so far this year too. I might be wrong, but my point is, to me this is a sign that he is less about branding himself within his team, and he shows more publicly that he is part of the team and it's all about the team. Or maybe Bjarne played role on that, I don't know. (but i can't be 100% about the pistol icon on the bike, we'll see if the icon ends up still on the bike). If it does, then this point is false . But i just thought it's always interesting when a team sport that's supposed to be all about team, has a rider brand himself differently than the rest of the team. Not that it's anything wrong, it just kinda defeat the purpose of 'team' idea, you know… there's no "i" on the 'team'? (Projected outside of the team is fine, but not inside the team.)..okay back to my rumbling opinion..

One thing that's strike the most is from one of his coming back interview (might be in youtube), he mentioned that his perpective about his life in cycling isn't about 'all about cycling anymore'. He said, that cycling is only part of life and there's a lot more other than cycling. This to me, is kind of a glimpse of his look on how he sees his career moving forward and how he wants to take it from now on. Certainly, it sounded more a mature look to me.His trouble has definitely shaped his thinking and his look on his life in cycling and in general. One thing that doesn't change is that he still loves to compete and win. (And we still witness that to this day). Maybe this time around, he won't win it with his sure brute of strength and dominating performance plus his signature's sting attack, but maybe with a combination of strength and more calculated, strategic and smart move. Contador might not be the strongest guy in La Vuelta, but he did won it, because he was smarter and he outwitted his opponent.

So yes, we've seen him this year and our head was full with his replay of his dominating past performance and understandably, we expected that he'll decimate the field like years before. Just to our disappointment, he did none of it. Then we started to say he sucks, he would be beaten by Froome, and endless of thought and doubts start to take center of our discussion whenever we mention about him. But we must not forget, in 6 months of his absence, cycling has changed a lot. The technology changes as well as his opponent. New breed of challenger arises and new approches in science has emerged. Every race we found new revelations. But a great champion always manages to adapt.

So this is a Contador v.2.0. He might not be dominating as in the past. But he is surely be up there to challenge Froome. Every champion always has his nemesis. He might not be winning with his style like in the past, but maybe he'll win it with sheer wit, smart and strategic move combine with his signature attacking style. After all, a great champion always adapts. Winning might not be come as easy as it used to be for him, but we would be surely treated with a great race. He is a real racer, and he 'makes' the race exciting.

And finally, this is just some personal observation from some one who's not even a psychologist

 

[contessador]

Hm i don't know. It's definitely out of his character. But I won't read it too much on that. He is a racer with heart of a champion. So, he won't show up just to lay down and play dead to Froome. So we probably are the one who has too high of a hope for him, and expecting good means he'll destroy his opponents.

If you take a look Contador preban and post band, the changes that happens on him is interesting. I'm not talking about his strength, but more about him as a person. Before the ban, in my opinion, he was more insecure, more inclusive to his spanish circles, he also projected more about himself, judging from his pistol icon showed up on his team bike. Why is this matter. If i can recall, none of the GT winner or champions has their icon on their team material. Riders usually get a stripe of colors for winning GT, or world champion, but the least they got their "nickname". Anyway, that's why i thought it has some significance on how he branded himself within his team.

Fast forward, post ban, I saw him a lot more mature, a lot more confidence, a lot more relax, a lot more open in my opinion compare to before. From his interview, during the race, he shows more and more about his team mate (maybe before he did too, we just never see it publicly. Thanks to twitter I guess) and more about his team. Last vuelta, if I'm not mistaken, I didn't see any pistol icon on his bike anymore, and so far this year too. I might be wrong, but my point is, to me this is a sign that he is less about branding himself within his team, and he shows more publicly that he is part of the team and it's all about the team. Or maybe Bjarne played role on that, I don't know. (but i can't be 100% about the pistol icon on the bike, we'll see if the icon ends up still on the bike). If it does, then this point is false . But i just thought it's always interesting when a team sport that's supposed to be all about team, has a rider brand himself differently than the rest of the team. Not that it's anything wrong, it just kinda defeat the purpose of 'team' idea, you know… there's no "i" on the 'team'? ..okay back to my rumbling opinion..

One thing that's strike the most is from one of his coming back interview (might be in youtube), he mentioned that his perpective about his life in cycling isn't about 'all about cycling anymore'. He said, that cycling is only part of life and there's a lot more other than cycling. This to me, is kind of a glimpse of his look on how he sees his career moving forward and how he wants to take it from now on. Certainly, it sounded more a mature look to me.His trouble has definitely shaped his thinking and his look on his life in cycling and in general. One thing that doesn't change is that he still loves to compete and win. (And we still witness that to this day). Maybe this time around, he won't win it with his sure brute of strength and his signature's sting attack, but maybe with a combination of strength and more calculated, strategic and smart move. Contador might not be a strongest guy in La Vuelta, but he did won it, because he was smarter and he outwitted his opponent.

So yes, we've seen him this year and our head was full with his replay of his dominating past performance and understandably, we expected that he'll decimate the field like years before. Just to our disappointment, he did none of it. Then we started to say he sucks, he would be beaten by Froome, and endless of thought and doubts start to take center of our discussion whenever we mention about him. But we must not forget, in 6 months of his absence, cycling has changed a lot. The technology changes as well as his opponent. New breed of challenger arises and new approches in science has emerged. Every race we found new revelations. But great champion always manages to adapt.

So this is a Contador v.2.0. He might not be dominating as in the past. But he is surely be up there to challenge Froome. Every champion always has his nemesis. He might not be winning with his style like in the past, but maybe he'll win it with sheer wit, smart and a strategic move combine with his signature attacking style. After all, a great champion always adapts. Winning might not be come as easy as it used to be for him, but we would be surely treated .
with a great race. He is a real racer, and he 'makes' the race exciting
And finally, this is just some personal observation from some one who's not even a psychologist

Enjoyed your post very much and I agree whole-heartedly. Not a psychologist either but Contador has morphed into something different. Maybe it began before the actual ban - he lost that 2011 TdF but there was pure heart and soul in his performance in the end. He is out to enjoy every minute and we get to see him!

 

[LaFlorecita]

Hm i don't know. It's definitely out of his character. But I won't read it too much on that. He is a racer with heart of a champion. So, he won't show up just to lay down and play dead to Froome. So we probably are the one who has too high of a hope for him, and expecting good means he'll destroy his opponents.

If you take a look Contador preban and post band, the changes that happens on him is interesting. I'm not talking about his strength, but more about him as a person. Before the ban, in my opinion, he was more insecure, more inclusive to his spanish circles, he also projected more about himself, judging from his pistol icon showed up on his team bike. Why is this matter. If i can recall, none of the GT winner or champions has their icon on their team material. Riders usually get a stripe of colors for winning GT, or world champion, but the least they got their "nickname". Anyway, that's why i thought it has some significance on how he branded himself within his team.

Fast forward, post ban, I saw him a lot more mature, a lot more confidence, a lot more relax, a lot more open in my opinion compare to before. From his interview, during the race, he shows more and more about his team mate (maybe before he did too, we just never see it publicly. Thanks to twitter I guess) and more about his team. Last vuelta, if I'm not mistaken, I didn't see any pistol icon on his bike anymore, and so far this year too. I might be wrong, but my point is, to me this is a sign that he is less about branding himself within his team, and he shows more publicly that he is part of the team and it's all about the team. Or maybe Bjarne played role on that, I don't know. (but i can't be 100% about the pistol icon on the bike, we'll see if the icon ends up still on the bike). If it does, then this point is false . But i just thought it's always interesting when a team sport that's supposed to be all about team, has a rider brand himself differently than the rest of the team. Not that it's anything wrong, it just kinda defeat the purpose of 'team' idea, you know… there's no "i" on the 'team'? ..okay back to my rumbling opinion..

One thing that's strike the most is from one of his coming back interview (might be in youtube), he mentioned that his perpective about his life in cycling isn't about 'all about cycling anymore'. He said, that cycling is only part of life and there's a lot more other than cycling. This to me, is kind of a glimpse of his look on how he sees his career moving forward and how he wants to take it from now on. Certainly, it sounded more a mature look to me.His trouble has definitely shaped his thinking and his look on his life in cycling and in general. One thing that doesn't change is that he still loves to compete and win. (And we still witness that to this day). Maybe this time around, he won't win it with his sure brute of strength and dominating performance plus his signature's sting attack, but maybe with a combination of strength and more calculated, strategic and smart move. Contador might not be a strongest guy in La Vuelta, but he did won it, because he was smarter and he outwitted his opponent.

So yes, we've seen him this year and our head was full with his replay of his dominating past performance and understandably, we expected that he'll decimate the field like years before. Just to our disappointment, he did none of it. Then we started to say he sucks, he would be beaten by Froome, and endless of thought and doubts start to take center of our discussion whenever we mention about him. But we must not forget, in 6 months of his absence, cycling has changed a lot. The technology changes as well as his opponent. New breed of challenger arises and new approches in science has emerged. Every race we found new revelations. But a great champion always manages to adapt.

So this is a Contador v.2.0. He might not be dominating as in the past. But he is surely be up there to challenge Froome. Every champion always has his nemesis. He might not be winning with his style like in the past, but maybe he'll win it with sheer wit, smart and strategic move combine with his signature attacking style. After all, a great champion always adapts. Winning might not be come as easy as it used to be for him, but we would be surely treated with a great race. He is a real racer, and he 'makes' the race exciting.

And finally, this is just some personal observation from some one who's not even a psychologist

Great post. I completely agree but it makes me sad. A little.

 

[Carols]

His legs are not supposed to feel that good...yet Carol.
Have faith in that Riis and AC knows what they doing, so far from what I´ve seen, the team is looking pretty good and prepared, not anything like the early season.
We will see some truth the coming week.

Alas I will be away and won't see Dauphine/Suisse; unless I can find coverage in Finland/Sweden!! See you all in 16 days Hopefully good news is reported on Bertie's form!

 

[Red Rick]

I think it has do with a new approach. He been used to managing his own training, scheduled his entire season as he wanted to, and now it all been laid in Bjarnes hands. Riis have for a long time wanted him to prepare differently than he was used to, and this season he had his will.

I´m pretty sure we will see a fit for fight and confident Alberto in Dauphine, and to me it sounds he has reasons for his confidence. He will remove all doubts in 10 days time, and we will all have something to look forward to the 29th of june.

EDIT: Except air of course.

I think that I read somewhere that Riis was very worried about Contador's shape after FW in 2011, and Contador just said: "give me two weeks, and I'll be ready." A few weeks later, Giro 2011 happened

 

[Nilsson]

I think that I read somewhere that Riis was very worried about Contador's shape after FW in 2011, and Contador just said: "give me two weeks, and I'll be ready." A few weeks later, Giro 2011 happened

No, that's not the correct story. That discussion took place before the start of that season, when they were planning the racing calender. Riis put together a racing schedule for Alberto at the first training camp. Alberto saw it and said "Bjarne, I don't need that many races. Give me two weeks, and I'll be ready."

It's without a doubt that they have different views on how to prepare for races. Contador is always ready, he maintains a pretty high level and only needs a really hard training block on top of that to become in top shape. Riis doesn't quite get that, probably because he's just not used to that level, nor were his former leaders. Bjarne prefers to gradually build towards peak condition. Racing to build form, not to fight for the win every time.

For Contador it always was pretty much the other way around: you train at home and in the races you try to go full gas. Considering the amount of races he is doing now, his slightly below par form and the fact that he's only just now had his first (old school) intense block of training could imply that Bjarne finally got some influence on his schedule and preparation. If it turns out to be a steep curve of peak condition like Andy and Ivan in the past, Contador actually could be flying in July.

 

[gooner]

Don't know what to make of this but Brian Smith just said he has been told Contador is struggling with form. Obviously someone is feeding him this. The training camp mightn't of gone well for him after all if this is to believed. Only today he said the overall for the Dauphhine wasn't a big objective. Maybe he's playing down his chances for this very reason.

Brian Smith ‏@BriSmithy 20m
Lets look forward to the Dauphine....I have been told that Contador is struggling with his form also....interesting times!

 

[Zam_Olyas]

I think that I read somewhere that Riis was very worried about Contador's shape after FW in 2011, and Contador just said: "give me two weeks, and I'll be ready." A few weeks later, Giro 2011 happened

Is this a bait?

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Is this a bait?

It is the gosspel of this particular church, that is for sure

 

[Jelantik]

well, hold your breathe and don't expect contador to win Dauphine.

excerpt from his interview:
"Every time I've raced the Dauphiné," he continued, "it's been for gearing up for the Tour. I've come second [in 2010], third [in 2009] and sixth [in 2007] here before and once again, I'll race without thinking of the overall victory. The Tour is the goal. I'm motivated. I need to resume racing and ride long climbs. Shall there be a day to test myself, I'll give it a go but I'm looking at a bigger picture. The overall classification of the Tour de France is the one I want to win."

 

[Publicus]

Don't know what to make of this but Brian Smith just said he has been told Contador is struggling with form. Obviously someone is feeding him this. The training camp mightn't of gone well for him after all if this is to believed. Only today he said the overall for the Dauphhine wasn't a big objective. Maybe he's playing down his chances for this very reason.

Contador never tries to win the Dauphine and why would someone privy to the training camp tell that he was doing poorly? Other than to sandbag?

 

[xrayvision]

Alas I will be away and won't see Dauphine/Suisse; unless I can find coverage in Finland/Sweden!! See you all in 16 days Hopefully good news is reported on Bertie's form!

I know channel norge 2 will live stream from dauphine, and they can watch norge 2 in Sweden, so maybe you can follow the race from there.
Good luck.

 

[gooner]

Contador never tries to win the Dauphine and why would someone privy to the training camp tell that he was doing poorly? Other than to sandbag?

Contador tried to win in 2010 but had an average TT and couldn't get it back on Alpe d'Huez. His poor TT form was carried on into the Tour and was significantly worse. He went flat out in that Dauphine.

Smith isn't on about his performances in Pais Vasco, LBL and FW as he said "I'm told" his form is bad. We know he had poor form by his standards in these races and the way Smith said it he was implying it was more of a recent thing and outside of what we have seen from Contador in racing this year. It mightn't be told directly to him from the training camp or whatever. It could easily be second hand information for all we know. I don't know but what he said is definitely open to interpretation after he publicly says it.

 

[The Hitch]

Well i recall contador said before Dauphine 2010 that it wasnt really an aim, and he used it to try out his new tt bike, but i agree that Contador fans should be worried with the Smith tweet.

 

[Publicus]

Well i recall contador said before Dauphine 2010 that it wasnt really an aim, and he used it to try out his new tt bike, but i agree that Contador fans should be worried with the Smith tweet.

As a fan, I'm not worried in the least bit. Contador says he's pleased with his preparations and that's enough for me. I don't expect him to win and frankly would be worried if he did.

 

[Cimber]

Well i recall contador said before Dauphine 2010 that it wasnt really an aim, and he used it to try out his new tt bike, but i agree that Contador fans should be worried with the Smith tweet.

Worrying for any one who wants and interesting Tour. Smith is a guy who is usually well-informed. That said Contador is known to be able to get in form fast.

Anyways hé also writes that Stannard will leave Sky (and as already known Uran)

Hé also indicates that Wiggo's knee injury is BS

 

[Siriuscat]

This

to this

That's about 6 kilos, I'm very much in the wait and see category but just looking at the physiological changes between LBL and now is enough to say he's getting there.

Smithy is pretty well informed but I doubt at this stage Riis will allow anything other than sandbagging. As DS Riis is focussed on Contador, Berto has never had that before. Hog was running on past laurels with Berto trying to fund the replacement for HWMNBN.

Lets wait and see, I am confident we'll see something special come July if not this week

 

[airstream]

6 kilos? lol, do you evaluate the reality properly?

 

[Siriuscat]

6 kilos? lol, do you evaluate the reality properly?

Experience of assessing sportsmen looking at body fat proprotions against muscle tissue that sort of thing, i'm probably right +/- 1KG.

 

[LaFlorecita]

That tweet

 

[airstream]

Experience of assessing sportsmen looking at body fat proprotions against muscle tissue that sort of thing, i'm probably right +/- 1KG.

I fear you cannot imagine how redundant 6 kilos would weaken even such an amazing athlete like Contador. It that had been 6 kg, there wouldn't have been any talk about attacks.

 

[Bexon30]

This


to this


That's about 6 kilos, I'm very much in the wait and see category but just looking at the physiological changes between LBL and now is enough to say he's getting there.

Smithy is pretty well informed but I doubt at this stage Riis will allow anything other than sandbagging. As DS Riis is focussed on Contador, Berto has never had that before. Hog was running on past laurels with Berto trying to fund the replacement for HWMNBN.


Lets wait and see, I am confident we'll see something special come July if not this week

I thought the top picture was recent? If so how could he loose 6 kilos? Just asking.

 

[LaFlorecita]

6kg is huge. A skinny athlete can't possibly lose 6 kg.

 

[Siriuscat]

I fear you cannot imagine how redundant 6 kilos would weaken even such an amazing athlete like Contador. It that had been 6 kg, there wouldn't have been any talk about attacks.

"Talk of attacks" ........isn't this your standard BS troll-line that he can't attack any more?

Look at the rolls over his knees, the paunch of his stomach, there is mass on his body you'd never have seen before in the way he was always prepped. He is older so his body is changing and that's also an issue. In addition to body fat you can carry up to ten pounds in excess fluid in your body tissues that is fairly easy to shed (part of the reason diuretics are banned). Burning body fat as opposed to glycogen stores is about working at certain threshold levels which most of us do when on our bikes they are different for all of us.

I'm quite confident in those numbers and 6kg (+/-1kg) is not as debilitating for a supreme athlete as you might think. It would explain why he couldn't attack and sustain attacks they way we'd have expected at St Luis or Pais Vasco or Oman or the Ardennes, but he could still compete just not they way we'd expect. Don't forget it wasn't unusual for the likes of Ullrich to have to lose 10kg before a tour.

Confidence punters confidence; sandbagging and putting the opposition off gurad in the Dauphine and Suisse are part of the Tour prep.

(PS Airstream - for info I was until a year or so ago(when I retired) a IIHF Level 3 hockey coach, part of my preseason job was ensuring my players shed their summer fat in readiness for the new season, fitness and conditioning are the same theories whatever sport you are in)

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

I fear you cannot imagine how redundant 6 kilos would weaken even such an amazing athlete like Contador. It that had been 6 kg, there wouldn't have been any talk about attacks.

This. If AC has lost more than 2,5 -3.5 kg we should be worried about his health, not his chances at the tour