Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Ahh, well it would be unwise to dismiss the Tasman based on his past record. He has failed at being a Grand Tour champion, yes, though that doesn't mean that he has no chance of becoming one.

His form is undeniably better this year and when the form is excellent, recovery usually improves, which thus lessens the possibility of a bad day and consequently he is not to be written off as you and others seem to be doing.

Contador and camp certainly are not. Then I seem to recall a certain other Sky dude that was a rather mediocre GT rider and then became a dominating beast, if not completely out of the blue, well, the metamorphosis was rather sensational nonetheless.

Porte may indeed crack at the Giro, but until he does and based on his season thus far, some of the derogatory comments about him here are rather brazen and, for this reason, imprudent. The Tasman in an interview in today's la Gazzetta dello Sport said over the winter he cut down on the beers and wine and, without making excessive sacrifices, cutting back here and there at the table, got his weight down to the obviously optimal state in which he currently races. This, while maintaining his power, has come with all the success witnessed so far. He stated: "I'd rather win another race, than have a beer with friends."

At any rate, Contador is definitely keeping watch and hopefully will consequently be in his 2014 mode come 9 June. He will need it, as he wasn't quite there in the spring.

I'm with you here. Porte is now a massive threat for the Giro. The big red flag that made me take notice was his time trial win at the Australian Nationals. It was a slightly rolling course, but the hills were mostly false flats (1-2%) with average speed 47km/h, and yet he beat the likes of Dennis, Bobridge and Durbridge. Along with sweeping up all the early season races, this is basically following what Wiggins and Froome did in their most successful year.

So he has improved his time trialling while also losing weight. That makes him a much greater threat than in previous years and will certainly help to improve his endurance over three weeks - with the greater strength he now has, he won't have to go into the red so often in the first two weeks.

If Contador doesn't start close to top form, I think Porte will win. If he gives Porte any advantage and then counts on him fading in the third week when the really tough stages begin, I think he'll be in trouble.

 

[Miburo]

Since when is a 1 week stage race where his competition or the parcours was underwhelming, indicative of him being able to be a threat for the best GT rider of the last 10 years in a GT? I fail to see the logic.

Unless contador sucks he's no threat, no one of the confirmed riders of the giro is, perhaps if nibali does the giro.

I already know that if contador can't drop Porte in the first MTF people will say that they were right. GT is 3 weeks, 3 weeks.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Since when is a 1 week stage race where his competition or the parcours was underwhelming, indicative of him being able to be a threat for the best GT rider of the last 10 years in a GT? I fail to see the logic.

Unless contador sucks he's no threat, no one of the confirmed riders of the giro is, perhaps if nibali does the giro.

I already know that if contador can't drop Porte in the first MTF people will say that they were right. GT is 3 weeks, 3 weeks.

I guess you were saying the same about Froome's chances against Contador before the 2013 TdF. History repeats itself with Sky - Porte has stepped up a level this year in climbing and time-trialling. Just as Wiggins and Froome did in previous years, before destroying the field.

A top form Contador still has the edge in my opinion, but anything less than that (and I fear he will come into the Giro slightly undercooked), and Porte has a real chance.

 

[May0maniac]

Re: Re:

Since when is a 1 week stage race where his competition or the parcours was underwhelming, indicative of him being able to be a threat for the best GT rider of the last 10 years in a GT? I fail to see the logic.

Unless contador sucks he's no threat, no one of the confirmed riders of the giro is, perhaps if nibali does the giro.

I already know that if contador can't drop Porte in the first MTF people will say that they were right. GT is 3 weeks, 3 weeks.

I guess you were saying the same about Froome's chances against Contador before the 2013 TdF. History repeats itself with Sky - Porte has stepped up a level this year in climbing and time-trialling. Just as Wiggins and Froome did in previous years, before destroying the field.

A top form Contador still has the edge in my opinion, but anything less than that (and I fear he will come into the Giro slightly undercooked), and Porte has a real chance.

Froome had ben 2nd in the Vuelta and in the TdF before that, he was proven as a legit GC rider, unlike Richie.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Since when is a 1 week stage race where his competition or the parcours was underwhelming, indicative of him being able to be a threat for the best GT rider of the last 10 years in a GT? I fail to see the logic.

Unless contador sucks he's no threat, no one of the confirmed riders of the giro is, perhaps if nibali does the giro.

I already know that if contador can't drop Porte in the first MTF people will say that they were right. GT is 3 weeks, 3 weeks.

I guess you were saying the same about Froome's chances against Contador before the 2013 TdF. History repeats itself with Sky - Porte has stepped up a level this year in climbing and time-trialling. Just as Wiggins and Froome did in previous years, before destroying the field.

A top form Contador still has the edge in my opinion, but anything less than that (and I fear he will come into the Giro slightly undercooked), and Porte has a real chance.

Froome had ben 2nd in the Vuelta and in the TdF before that, he was proven as a legit GC rider, unlike Richie.

Yes, but the same arguments were being made. That Froome was racing against nobodies, that he couldn't even beat Cobo in the Vuelta. And that the 2012 TdF only suited him because of so much time trialling and poor competition. People were saying that Contador would put him in place in the 2013 TdF.

Also, I don't think Porte has ever started a Grand Tour before as a leader, so it's difficult to say what he is capable of when he is specifically preparing and peaking to lead a race.

 

[clippittee]

It would be interesting to see what happens at Giro.

 

[rhubroma]

Woo, get a grip there Miburo/Mayomaniac. Porte finished 7th in his first Giro (if I'm not mistaken his first GT). Certainly that indicates something from such a young rider. That doesn't happen by chance, usually. Riss, at the time, thought of him as a potential star someday. He was considered a huge potential, and certainly more than Froome, in his early years. What followed were ups and downs, but the potential has always been acknowledged.

All I'm saying is that Porte finally seems to be living up to his potential. He's leaner, more powerful, more confident than ever before. His TT is solid, his climbing is as good as anybody's so far (with only Quintana at TA as good, or perhaps slighly better on Terminillo, but that's not a given).

The point is that he has always been regarded as a potential GT winner, though has just been overshadowed by Froome and had a poor year last year. It is too early to tell, but it seems as if at Sky a switch of fortune is taking place and possibly roles (though the Giro makes that unlikely if the programs don't change). Yet the Tasman is definitely superior to his captain at the moment.

The point is that his past is irrelevant when judging what he is capable of or not doing at this year's Giro, because I doubt he even knows, although he has never been this strong before.

Contador in top shape is a guarantee, however, since we haven't seen that yet this year and since the Tasman is on fire, it is legitimate to consider Porte a serious candidate for the Giro overall and certainly a major rival to the Spaniard.

 

[LaFlorecita]

IIRC Froome entered that Tour as the big fave

 

[LaFlorecita]

Rhubroma, why do you always write as if you're writing an article? "The Spaniard" "The Tasman"

 

[LaFlorecita]

PS I think Porte will be strong. But will lack some climbing power vs Contador. Remember Catalunya? Berto rode away and Porte could only reel him back in because it was a windy climb and he had Kiryienka with him. And Alberto was miles off top shape there.

 

[rhubroma]

Re:

Rhubroma, why do you always write as if you're writing an article? "The Spaniard" "The Tasman"

I detest monotony.

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

Woo, get a grip there Miburo/Mayomaniac. Porte finished 7th in his first Giro (if I'm not mistaken his first GT). Certainly that indicates something from such a young rider. That doesn't happen by chance, usually. Riss, at the time, thought of him as a potential star someday. He was considered a huge potential, and certainly more than Froome, in his early years. What followed were ups and downs, but the potential has always been acknowledged.

All I'm saying is that Porte finally seems to be living up to his potential. He's leaner, more powerful, more confident than ever before. His TT is solid, his climbing is as good as anybody's so far (with only Quintana at TA as good, or perhaps slighly better on Terminillo, but that's not a given).

The point is that he has always been regarded as a potential GT winner, though has just been overshadowed by Froome and had a poor year last year. It is too early to tell, but it seems as if at Sky a switch of fortune is taking place and possibly roles (though the Giro makes that unlikely if the programs don't change). Yet the Tasman is definitely superior to his captain at the moment.

The point is that his past is irrelevant when judging what he is capable or not doing at this year's Giro, because I doubt he even knows, although he has never been this strong before.

Contador in top shape is a guarantee, however, since we haven't seen that yet this year and since the Tasman is on fire, it is legitimate to consider Porte a serious candidate for the Giro overall and certainly a major rival to the Spaniard.

It was very good for his first GT, but he gained over 12 minutes over nearly every GC contender not named Arroyo in the awesome L'Aquila stage, that puts things in perspective. Still it was a good performance in his first GT, I'll give you that. He didn't have a bad day in that Giro, but he lost a few minutes to most other GC riders in every single mountain stage.

 

[rhubroma]

Re:

PS I think Porte will be strong. But will lack some climbing power vs Contador. Remember Catalunya? Berto rode away and Porte could only reel him back in because it was a windy climb and he had Kiryienka with him. And Alberto was miles off top shape there.

The Spaniard ran out of gas, while the Tasman got back on terms and then droped him.

While it isn't if his trainer isn't betting on Porte getting stronger before the Giro, which the Skyman confirmed.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

PS I think Porte will be strong. But will lack some climbing power vs Contador. Remember Catalunya? Berto rode away and Porte could only reel him back in because it was a windy climb and he had Kiryienka with him. And Alberto was miles off top shape there.

The Spaniard ran out of gas, while the Tasman got back on terms and then droped him.

While it isn't if his trainer isn't betting on Porte getting stronger before the Giro, which the Skyman confirmed.

Yes, Berto ran out of gas, because he had to face the wind on his own while Porte could save energy and follow Kiryienka. It won't happen at the Giro. Once Berto is gone he's gone.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

PS I think Porte will be strong. But will lack some climbing power vs Contador. Remember Catalunya? Berto rode away and Porte could only reel him back in because it was a windy climb and he had Kiryienka with him. And Alberto was miles off top shape there.

The Spaniard ran out of gas, while the Tasman got back on terms and then droped him.

While it isn't if his trainer isn't betting on Porte getting stronger before the Giro, which the Skyman confirmed.

Yes, Berto ran out of gas, because he had to face the wind on his own while Porte could save energy and follow Kiryienka. It won't happen at the Giro. Once Berto is gone he's gone.

I look forward to it.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

Since when is a 1 week stage race where his competition or the parcours was underwhelming, indicative of him being able to be a threat for the best GT rider of the last 10 years in a GT? I fail to see the logic.

Unless contador sucks he's no threat, no one of the confirmed riders of the giro is, perhaps if nibali does the giro.

I already know that if contador can't drop Porte in the first MTF people will say that they were right. GT is 3 weeks, 3 weeks.

I guess you were saying the same about Froome's chances against Contador before the 2013 TdF. History repeats itself with Sky - Porte has stepped up a level this year in climbing and time-trialling. Just as Wiggins and Froome did in previous years, before destroying the field.

A top form Contador still has the edge in my opinion, but anything less than that (and I fear he will come into the Giro slightly undercooked), and Porte has a real chance.

Froome had ben 2nd in the Vuelta and in the TdF before that, he was proven as a legit GC rider, unlike Richie.

Yes, but the same arguments were being made. That Froome was racing against nobodies, that he couldn't even beat Cobo in the Vuelta. And that the 2012 TdF only suited him because of so much time trialling and poor competition. People were saying that Contador would put him in place in the 2013 TdF.

Also, I don't think Porte has ever started a Grand Tour before as a leader, so it's difficult to say what he is capable of when he is specifically preparing and peaking to lead a race.

You really dont understand what is a GT, do you?

 

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

Since when is a 1 week stage race where his competition or the parcours was underwhelming, indicative of him being able to be a threat for the best GT rider of the last 10 years in a GT? I fail to see the logic.

Unless contador sucks he's no threat, no one of the confirmed riders of the giro is, perhaps if nibali does the giro.

I already know that if contador can't drop Porte in the first MTF people will say that they were right. GT is 3 weeks, 3 weeks.

I guess you were saying the same about Froome's chances against Contador before the 2013 TdF. History repeats itself with Sky - Porte has stepped up a level this year in climbing and time-trialling. Just as Wiggins and Froome did in previous years, before destroying the field.

A top form Contador still has the edge in my opinion, but anything less than that (and I fear he will come into the Giro slightly undercooked), and Porte has a real chance.

I never said anything of the sort with froome besides that's irrelevant since contador was terrible that year.

And i'm not certain if the best contador can beat the best froome.

Porte has never done anything remotely close to Froome on a GT level. Froome did already before tour 2013. You fail to make a point, but believe in fairy tales, don't follow logic, good for you.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Yes, but the same arguments were being made. That Froome was racing against nobodies, that he couldn't even beat Cobo in the Vuelta. And that the 2012 TdF only suited him because of so much time trialling and poor competition. People were saying that Contador would put him in place in the 2013 TdF.

Also, I don't think Porte has ever started a Grand Tour before as a leader, so it's difficult to say what he is capable of when he is specifically preparing and peaking to lead a race.

You really dont understand what is a GT, do you?

That's a strange post, not sure where you got that from based on anything I have posted. Which GT do you think Porte has started before as leader?

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Since when is a 1 week stage race where his competition or the parcours was underwhelming, indicative of him being able to be a threat for the best GT rider of the last 10 years in a GT? I fail to see the logic.

Unless contador sucks he's no threat, no one of the confirmed riders of the giro is, perhaps if nibali does the giro.

I already know that if contador can't drop Porte in the first MTF people will say that they were right. GT is 3 weeks, 3 weeks.

I guess you were saying the same about Froome's chances against Contador before the 2013 TdF. History repeats itself with Sky - Porte has stepped up a level this year in climbing and time-trialling. Just as Wiggins and Froome did in previous years, before destroying the field.

A top form Contador still has the edge in my opinion, but anything less than that (and I fear he will come into the Giro slightly undercooked), and Porte has a real chance.

I never said anything of the sort with froome besides that's irrelevant since contador was terrible that year.

And i'm not certain if the best contador can beat the best froome.

Porte has never done anything remotely close to Froome on a GT level. Froome did already before tour 2013. You fail to make a point, but believe in fairy tales, don't follow logic, good for you.

Wow, you appear to be losing it a bit. Fairy tales??! Porte is the number one rider in the world this year - I don't want him to win and don't particularly want Sky to do well, but he is clearly the number one threat to Contador in the Giro. Past form doesn't tell the whole story; he is climbing better than ever and time trialling better than ever and this will be his first GT as a leader. Only a fool would not be concerned, given the previous form that Sky have had with riders making massive improvements.

 

[Miburo]

The giro 2010, oh yea where he got 15 minutes cause of a break didn't he? And where he was completely destryoed in the last week right?

Hmmm i wonder why that was, maybe cause it's a GT?

Anyway 2 more weeks for contador, prob one final week of training and then rest. One of the last time we might see him in his prime or at least close to it

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

Yes, but the same arguments were being made. That Froome was racing against nobodies, that he couldn't even beat Cobo in the Vuelta. And that the 2012 TdF only suited him because of so much time trialling and poor competition. People were saying that Contador would put him in place in the 2013 TdF.

Also, I don't think Porte has ever started a Grand Tour before as a leader, so it's difficult to say what he is capable of when he is specifically preparing and peaking to lead a race.

You really dont understand what is a GT, do you?

That's a strange post, not sure where you got that from based on anything I have posted. Which GT do you think Porte has started before as leader?

He wasnt a leader but thats even better! You dont have any pressure and he had free role at 2 TdF - he didnt prove anything even without pressure.

My point is that you dont understand that you cant compare any other race with a GT.And at multiple GT's he was rubbish,thats why its highly unlikely he will be a threat to Contador.I dont say he won't be a factor, but he is not a danger for AC if he won't be in rubbish (2013) form.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Yes, but the same arguments were being made. That Froome was racing against nobodies, that he couldn't even beat Cobo in the Vuelta. And that the 2012 TdF only suited him because of so much time trialling and poor competition. People were saying that Contador would put him in place in the 2013 TdF.

Also, I don't think Porte has ever started a Grand Tour before as a leader, so it's difficult to say what he is capable of when he is specifically preparing and peaking to lead a race.

You really dont understand what is a GT, do you?

That's a strange post, not sure where you got that from based on anything I have posted. Which GT do you think Porte has started before as leader?

He wasnt a leader but thats even better! You dont have any pressure and he had free role at 2 TdF - he didnt prove anything even without pressure.

My point is that you dont understand that you cant compare any other race with a GT.And at multiple GT's he was rubbish,thats why its highly unlikely he will be a threat to Contador.I dont say he won't be a factor, but he is not a danger for AC if he won't be in rubbish (2013) form.

The reason he has done relatively poorly at GT's though is because he hasn't had a high enough level before. He has never been one of the very top climbers or time triallists, and so he always had to go more into the red in the first two weeks to try to stay near the best or to work for his leader, and then he faded badly in the final week or on a tough stage.

On the form this season, I think he is one of the best climbers in the world, and so he won't have to dig so deep in the first two weeks to stay with or close to the best riders. Then he should have more left for the third week.

Porte has lost weight, while improving both his climbing and time-trialling. You can't dismiss this simply by claiming that he will fade, because he has always faded in Grand Tours. He has a new level this year and that will mean that his normalized power in the tougher stages of the first two weeks will be lower than before; so he won't fatigue in the same way.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Since when is a 1 week stage race where his competition or the parcours was underwhelming, indicative of him being able to be a threat for the best GT rider of the last 10 years in a GT? I fail to see the logic.

Unless contador sucks he's no threat, no one of the confirmed riders of the giro is, perhaps if nibali does the giro.

I already know that if contador can't drop Porte in the first MTF people will say that they were right. GT is 3 weeks, 3 weeks.

I guess you were saying the same about Froome's chances against Contador before the 2013 TdF. History repeats itself with Sky - Porte has stepped up a level this year in climbing and time-trialling. Just as Wiggins and Froome did in previous years, before destroying the field.

A top form Contador still has the edge in my opinion, but anything less than that (and I fear he will come into the Giro slightly undercooked), and Porte has a real chance.

I never said anything of the sort with froome besides that's irrelevant since contador was terrible that year.

And i'm not certain if the best contador can beat the best froome.

Porte has never done anything remotely close to Froome on a GT level. Froome did already before tour 2013. You fail to make a point, but believe in fairy tales, don't follow logic, good for you.

Wow, you appear to be losing it a bit. Fairy tales??! Porte is the number one rider in the world this year - I don't want him to win and don't particularly want Sky to do well, but he is clearly the number one threat to Contador in the Giro. Past form doesn't tell the whole story; he is climbing better than ever and time trialling better than ever and this will be his first GT as a leader. Only a fool would not be concerned, given the previous form that Sky have had with riders making massive improvements.

Regarding the bold: Bala will fix that on Sunday

I agree Porte has reached a new level, like Wiggins and Froome before him. The magic of Sky has finally touched him and he will make quite a formidable opponent. The designated Sky boy can carry great form for Months (Wiggins 2012, Froome 2013) so I expect Porte will carry his form very nicely into the Giro. His past history says he will have a bad day but this is the New and Improved Porte, skinnier yet producing more power and bursting with confidence. I'm sure Alberto is NOT taking him lightly and neither should we!

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Yes, but the same arguments were being made. That Froome was racing against nobodies, that he couldn't even beat Cobo in the Vuelta. And that the 2012 TdF only suited him because of so much time trialling and poor competition. People were saying that Contador would put him in place in the 2013 TdF.

Also, I don't think Porte has ever started a Grand Tour before as a leader, so it's difficult to say what he is capable of when he is specifically preparing and peaking to lead a race.

You really dont understand what is a GT, do you?

That's a strange post, not sure where you got that from based on anything I have posted. Which GT do you think Porte has started before as leader?

He wasnt a leader but thats even better! You dont have any pressure and he had free role at 2 TdF - he didnt prove anything even without pressure.

My point is that you dont understand that you cant compare any other race with a GT.And at multiple GT's he was rubbish,thats why its highly unlikely he will be a threat to Contador.I dont say he won't be a factor, but he is not a danger for AC if he won't be in rubbish (2013) form.

The reason he has done relatively poorly at GT's though is because he hasn't had a high enough level before. He has never been one of the very top climbers or time triallists, and so he always had to go more into the red in the first two weeks to try to stay near the best or to work for his leader, and then he faded badly in the final week or on a tough stage.

On the form this season, I think he is one of the best climbers in the world, and so he won't have to dig so deep in the first two weeks to stay with or close to the best riders. Then he should have more left for the third week.

Porte has lost weight, while improving both his climbing and time-trialling. You can't dismiss this simply by claiming that he will fade, because he has always faded in Grand Tours. He has a new level this year and that will mean that his normalized power in the tougher stages of the first two weeks will be lower than before; so he won't fatigue in the same way.

It's useless they're not interesting in having a rational discussion about the matter. Fact is Porte is team Sky's GC leader at the Giro, which means the team believes in his chances, while he has always been considered a GT potential. Whereas now he seemingly has the numbers and form to be authenticate his potentioal and be considered a legitimate candidate. This being the first time in his career. The past is the past,as he has a new deal right now and, as you and I have said, it is imprudent to write the guy off based on past performances and given his current form.

If Contador "destroys" him then many can look forward to the Tour. However, as Aesop's fable of the Tortoise and the Hare teaches, overconfidence and arrogance while underestimating your competition can lead to a brutal outcome. Certainly Alberto is not doing so, which means some of the desmissive commentary here is in rather poor form.

 

[SeriousSam]

Another strong showing from the Australian. Will Contador be able to hang on when Richie attacks, or will the Spaniard be left in the dust whilst Froome's right hand cruises to victory? Come the Giro, Alberto will have to be ready and alert to counter the World Tour Leader's attacks. Another unknown at this point is whether the Vuelta 2014 champion can time trial as well as the Tasmanian Col d'Eze legend