Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[ILovecycling]

Oh cmonnn.I will have hours of discussion with you guys,its not true at all about me and you know that rhubroma.
Point is you both thinks that his improvement from his spring campaign will affect his ability to be signifacantly better at a GT.Which we dont know,we can only speculate but all indications shows that he cant beat AC.

 

[murali]

with all due respect to Porte lovers, the New and Improved Porte belongs to clinic, not here.

In the del Trentino, he made just 32 sec to Cunego. that means he is not in any kind of "magical" form. (you can argue that he might not have put extra effort, but i dont believe any such nonsense.)

I think AC made tactical error earlier in TA. he left too many things too late. (and NIP and thomas charged to finish despite a bad crash)

things are not going to be like that in Giro. everyone will work together to tire out sky train, then do their business.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

with all due respect to Porte lovers, the New and Improved Porte belongs to clinic, not here.

In the del Trentino, he made just 32 sec to Cunego. that means he is not in any kind of "magical" form. (you can argue that he might not have put extra effort, but i dont believe any such nonsense.)

I think AC made tactical error earlier in TA. he left too many things too late. (and NIP and thomas charged to finish despite a bad crash)

things are not going to be like that in Giro. everyone will work together to tire out sky train, then do their business.

Nope stop it.Its not clinic here.We presume it all about racing not anything else here in rr section (also I believe them)


Btw avatar bets thatcporte beats AC are on the table guys,but beware that Im undefeated

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

with all due respect to Porte lovers, the New and Improved Porte belongs to clinic, not here.

In the del Trentino, he made just 32 sec to Cunego. that means he is not in any kind of "magical" form. (you can argue that he might not have put extra effort, but i dont believe any such nonsense.)

I think AC made tactical error earlier in TA. he left too many things too late. (and NIP and thomas charged to finish despite a bad crash)

things are not going to be like that in Giro. everyone will work together to tire out sky train, then do their business.

Nope stop it.Its not clinic here.We presume it all about racing not anything else here in rr section (also I believe them)


Btw avatar bets thatcporte beats AC are on the table guys,but beware that Im undefeated

I'm not taking that bet, because I think AC will win (just that Porte has a chance if Contador tries to ride the Giro at 90%) .

I will offer you an avatar bet though that Porte finishes above either Uran or Aru - despite the fact the latter two have far superior GC records.

 

[murali]

never had an avatar here. not interested as well.(except if cav wears rainbow)


regarding bertie, i am sure he will be peaking in time for winning the Giro.

tactically, sky is still ***. luckily, there is no piti. so they wont do the stupid pulling where sky shud have worked.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

never had an avatar here. not interested as well.(except if cav wears rainbow)


regarding bertie, i am sure he will be peaking in time for winning the Giro.

tactically, sky is still ****. luckily, there is no piti. so they wont do the stupid pulling where sky shud have worked.

Sky aren't that bad tactically at GC's. They are a bit one dimensional, but have had success with it. Obviously, when they try to do the same tactics at a monument it's pretty laughable.

 

[Eagle]

What makes people think Porte is stronger than he was in 2013?

 

[murali]

Re: Re:

I will offer you an avatar bet though that Porte finishes above either Uran or Aru - despite the fact the latter two have far superior GC records.

dont bet on that ;-)

everything depends on how bad is porte's and uran's bad day.
both have consistency issue.

i think Aru may not even participate. we have to wait for final list to be sure.

 

[murali]

sky tactics sucks! sky tactics sucks! sky statics sucks!

the thing is, they dont have a tactics.

 

[DFA123]

What makes people think Porte is stronger than he was in 2013?

Because this year he's regularly winning GC's, individual mountain stages and time trials against the best riders in the world.

In 2013, he won Paris-Nice against a fairly weak field and did well at Pais Vasco, but didn't put in the kind of dominant performances he has this year.

 

[Eagle]

Re: Re:

I will offer you an avatar bet though that Porte finishes above either Uran or Aru - despite the fact the latter two have far superior GC records.

dont bet on that ;-)

everything depends on how bad is porte's and uran's bad day.
both have consistency issue.

i think Aru may not even participate. we have to wait for final list to be sure.

Aru is already back training, of course he will participate

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

rhubroma said:

It's useless they're not interesting in having a rational discussion about the matter. Fact is Porte is team Sky's GC leader at the Giro, which means the team believes in his chances, while he has always been considered a GT potential. Whereas now he seemingly has the numbers and form to be authenticate his potentioal and be considered a legitimate candidate. This being the first time in his career. The past is the past,as he has a new deal right now and, as you and I have said, it is imprudent to write the guy off based on past performances and given his current form.

If Contador "destroys" him then many can look forward to the Tour. However, as Aesop's fable of the Tortoise and the Hare teaches, overconfidence and arrogance while underestimating your competition can lead to a brutal outcome. Certainly Alberto is not doing so, which means some of the desmissive commentary here is in rather poor form.

___________________

EDIT: well I mucked up editing the quotes again
Alberto didn't take Froome seriously enough in 2013. He won't make that mistake again with Porte. I intensely dislike Porte because he was a crappy dom for Alberto but I cannot deny what my eyes are seeing. The man is a lean, mean, fit and ready road warrior on a mission. Hopefully his past history repeats itself and he cracks. But it is foolish IMO to dismiss his chances. It will be tough on Alberto's Tour chances if the Giro doesn't come easy, that is my biggest concern. That he will have to dig much deeper then planned to win and there will not be enough time before the Tour to recover.

 

[Eagle]

What makes people think Porte is stronger than he was in 2013?

Because this year he's regularly winning GC's, individual mountain stages and time trials against the best riders in the world.

In 2013, he won Paris-Nice against a fairly weak field and did well at Pais Vasco, but didn't put in the kind of dominant performances he has this year.

He won Paris-Nice by almost a minute to Talansky in 2013, far more dominant than anything hes done this year

 

[Carols]

What makes people think Porte is stronger than he was in 2013?

Because this year he's regularly winning GC's, individual mountain stages and time trials against the best riders in the world.

In 2013, he won Paris-Nice against a fairly weak field and did well at Pais Vasco, but didn't put in the kind of dominant performances he has this year.

Very Well said.

 

[DFA123]

What makes people think Porte is stronger than he was in 2013?

Because this year he's regularly winning GC's, individual mountain stages and time trials against the best riders in the world.

In 2013, he won Paris-Nice against a fairly weak field and did well at Pais Vasco, but didn't put in the kind of dominant performances he has this year.

He won Paris-Nice by almost a minute to Talansky in 2013, far more dominant than anything hes done this year

On paper, perhaps, but his performances look a different level this year. He's controlled the GC in several races and has put in explosive attacks when required. As I mentioned earlier in the thread; the real standout result for me was right at the start of the season, when he won the Nationals time trial against a really high quality field. To win that, despite having lost weight, suggests that his power-weight ratio has moved on to a whole new level. Similarly to how it did for Froome and Wiggins before their GT victories.

 

[Carols]

What makes people think Porte is stronger than he was in 2013?

Because this year he's regularly winning GC's, individual mountain stages and time trials against the best riders in the world.

In 2013, he won Paris-Nice against a fairly weak field and did well at Pais Vasco, but didn't put in the kind of dominant performances he has this year.

He won Paris-Nice by almost a minute to Talansky in 2013, far more dominant than anything hes done this year

On paper, perhaps, but his performances look a different level this year. He's controlled the GC in several races and has put in explosive attacks when required. As I mentioned earlier in the thread; the real standout result for me was right at the start of the season, when he won the Nationals time trial against a really high quality field. To win that, despite having lost weight, suggests that his power-weight ratio has moved on to a whole new level. Similarly to how it did for Froome and Wiggins before their GT victories.

Re Bolded: Exactly, he is Sky history repeating itself and Alberto better be prepared.

 

[Eagle]

What makes people think Porte is stronger than he was in 2013?

Because this year he's regularly winning GC's, individual mountain stages and time trials against the best riders in the world.

In 2013, he won Paris-Nice against a fairly weak field and did well at Pais Vasco, but didn't put in the kind of dominant performances he has this year.

He won Paris-Nice by almost a minute to Talansky in 2013, far more dominant than anything hes done this year

On paper, perhaps, but his performances look a different level this year. He's controlled the GC in several races and has put in explosive attacks when required. As I mentioned earlier in the thread; the real standout result for me was right at the start of the season, when he won the Nationals time trial against a really high quality field. To win that, despite having lost weight, suggests that his power-weight ratio has moved on to a whole new level. Similarly to how it did for Froome and Wiggins before their GT victories.

Ah, I forgot about the TT, but still think his Paris-Nice performance that year was as impressive as anything hes done this year.

 

[DFA123]

What makes people think Porte is stronger than he was in 2013?

Because this year he's regularly winning GC's, individual mountain stages and time trials against the best riders in the world.

In 2013, he won Paris-Nice against a fairly weak field and did well at Pais Vasco, but didn't put in the kind of dominant performances he has this year.

He won Paris-Nice by almost a minute to Talansky in 2013, far more dominant than anything hes done this year

On paper, perhaps, but his performances look a different level this year. He's controlled the GC in several races and has put in explosive attacks when required. As I mentioned earlier in the thread; the real standout result for me was right at the start of the season, when he won the Nationals time trial against a really high quality field. To win that, despite having lost weight, suggests that his power-weight ratio has moved on to a whole new level. Similarly to how it did for Froome and Wiggins before their GT victories.

Re Bolded: Exactly, he is Sky history repeating itself and Alberto better be prepared.

Indeed, I'd be pretty confident that a top form Contador would still have the edge on the longest and hardest of climbs. If he comes in undercooked or is planning on taking it easily in the 3rd week though, then he'll have a real battle on his hands.

Whether Alberto wins or not, I fear - like you said - that it will take too much out of him to win the Tour as well. Worst case scenario is that he tries to do the Giro at 90%, gives up time to Porte and then has to go flat out in the third week to try to make up time. In that scenario he could lose the Giro and also blow his chances of doing anything at the Tour. Hopefully he is too street wise for that now though, after his experiences with Froome in the last few years.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Since when is a 1 week stage race where his competition or the parcours was underwhelming, indicative of him being able to be a threat for the best GT rider of the last 10 years in a GT? I fail to see the logic.

Unless contador sucks he's no threat, no one of the confirmed riders of the giro is, perhaps if nibali does the giro.

I already know that if contador can't drop Porte in the first MTF people will say that they were right. GT is 3 weeks, 3 weeks.

I guess you were saying the same about Froome's chances against Contador before the 2013 TdF. History repeats itself with Sky - Porte has stepped up a level this year in climbing and time-trialling. Just as Wiggins and Froome did in previous years, before destroying the field.

A top form Contador still has the edge in my opinion, but anything less than that (and I fear he will come into the Giro slightly undercooked), and Porte has a real chance.

Who is to say the Porte will be able to maintain this high level throughout the Giro? He's been riding a wave of excellent form since the TDU. We can only base our opinions on the knowledge we have on these riders and Porte's history in grand tours is that at some point he inevitably loses minutes to all of his rivals for the gc. All that he's shown us thus far this season is that he can hold it together for 1 week in succession.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Since when is a 1 week stage race where his competition or the parcours was underwhelming, indicative of him being able to be a threat for the best GT rider of the last 10 years in a GT? I fail to see the logic.

Unless contador sucks he's no threat, no one of the confirmed riders of the giro is, perhaps if nibali does the giro.

I already know that if contador can't drop Porte in the first MTF people will say that they were right. GT is 3 weeks, 3 weeks.

I guess you were saying the same about Froome's chances against Contador before the 2013 TdF. History repeats itself with Sky - Porte has stepped up a level this year in climbing and time-trialling. Just as Wiggins and Froome did in previous years, before destroying the field.

A top form Contador still has the edge in my opinion, but anything less than that (and I fear he will come into the Giro slightly undercooked), and Porte has a real chance.

Who is to say the Porte will be able to maintain this high level throughout the Giro? He's been riding a wave of excellent form since the TDU. We can only base our opinions on the knowledge we have on these riders and Porte's history in grand tours is that at some point he inevitably loses minutes to all of his rivals for the gc. All that he's shown us thus far this season is that he can hold it together for 1 week in succession.

You are missing the point. His past performances, while acknowledged, given the present state of affairs need to be weighed against the fact that Porte has never been at this level. He is rendering much higher performances, because he is leaner and his power/weight ratio is greater than before.

Consquently there is no guarantee that he will loose dramatic time on a bad day as before. Sky obviously thinks his approach to the Giro is optimal in terms of carrying his form throughout the race. Doesn't mean he will of course, however, if any season offers the possibility he can then it is definitely this one.

The point is that Contador might find a tough nut to crack from a racer who one didn't expect to have so much power up till now. That's just being recognized, since it would be unwise not to do so.

If he has a big drop in performance during the Giro then evidently he really isn't cut out for a GT. My hunch is that he will probably be more consistant and have a higher overall rendition than in the past, which thus makes him a formidable rival to AC. I didn't expect Porte to be so strong, but knowing what his DSs have thought of his potential, makes me think he's gotten everything right so far this season and may be much better in the Giro than one would have thought otherwise. No more, no less.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Alberto and Peto got customized jerseys from sportful, what do you guys think?

Alberto Contador ‏@albertocontador 17m17 minutes ago
Os presento la linea de ropa personalizada que me ha hecho @sportful .A mi me gusta!@FundContador @tinkoff_saxo

pretty cool huh?
Berto's looks a lot like his youth squads' kits I must say

 

[LaFlorecita]

About Porte being leaner - he lost 5 kg compared to last year. Last year, however, he looked quite chubby. Maybe he was just heavier than usual last year.

 

[qwer]

Alberto and Peto got customized jerseys from sportful, what do you guys think?

Alberto Contador ‏@albertocontador 17m17 minutes ago
Os presento la linea de ropa personalizada que me ha hecho @sportful .A mi me gusta!@FundContador @tinkoff_saxo

pretty cool huh?
Berto's looks a lot like his youth squads' kits I must say

contador is thin, with more muscles than march

 

[jens_attacks]

alberto is tremendous, peter is a fatty

 

[rhubroma]

Re:

About Porte being leaner - he lost 5 kg compared to last year. Last year, however, he looked quite chubby. Maybe he was just heavier than usual last year.

He's never been this thin before.