Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[deValtos]

Re: Re:

If he wasn't burnt, you're saying he WILLINGLY lost 1'13 because why? When Aru momentarily popped, Landa didn't dropped back for him, Kangert did. He was cooked. It happens. He's human, not a robot.

It seemed pretty obvious to me that pushing on would've potentially cost Aru some big time. So Landa just followed wheels, he's not going to wait for Aru himself but he followed anyone else attacking on the climb.

Now even if Landa and his team didn't care at all for Aru and suppose he did push on. He probably ends up on his own stuck in the middle with the last 30kms to himself and wasting a ton of energy. He's said himself it's almost impossible to beat Contador now so what did you think he was going to do ?

He rode smart, but didn't look on the limit at any point. Of course you see what you want to see.

Like I said before hopeully we can see on Friday & Saturday just how strong they both are.

 

[Publicus]

Re: Re:

If he wasn't burnt, you're saying he WILLINGLY lost 1'13 because why? When Aru momentarily popped, Landa didn't dropped back for him, Kangert did. He was cooked. It happens. He's human, not a robot.

It seemed pretty obvious to me that pushing on would've potentially cost Aru some big time. So Landa just followed wheels, he's not going to wait for Aru himself but he followed anyone else attacking on the climb.

Now even if Landa and his team didn't care at all for Aru and suppose he did push on. He probably ends up on his own stuck in the middle with the last 30kms to himself and wasting a ton of energy. He's said himself it's almost impossible to beat Contador now so what did you think he was going to do ?

He rode smart, but didn't look on the limit at any point. Of course you see what you want to see.

Like I said before hopeully we can see on Friday & Saturday just how strong they both are.

Landa pushed on yesterday because Aru couldn't. I don't think he's concerned about Aru since he has better legs and has obviously been given the go ahead to ride his own race. He was burnt when he reached the group and if he could have pushed on, and taking guys with him, would have. I think you're seeing what you WANT to see.

As for tomorrow and Saturday, I think we know how it goes. Contador isn't going to worry about anyone but Landa. He just has to follow wheels. Aru is shot/done and no longer a threat to him so he won't chase. Heck he might even concede time to Landa because it's all over except for the crying

 

[Wallace]

Re: Re:

If he wasn't burnt, you're saying he WILLINGLY lost 1'13 because why? When Aru momentarily popped, Landa didn't dropped back for him, Kangert did. He was cooked. It happens. He's human, not a robot.

It seemed pretty obvious to me that pushing on would've potentially cost Aru some big time. So Landa just followed wheels, he's not going to wait for Aru himself but he followed anyone else attacking on the climb.

Now even if Landa and his team didn't care at all for Aru and suppose he did push on. He probably ends up on his own stuck in the middle with the last 30kms to himself and wasting a ton of energy. He's said himself it's almost impossible to beat Contador now so what did you think he was going to do ?

He rode smart, but didn't look on the limit at any point. Of course you see what you want to see.

Like I said before hopeully we can see on Friday & Saturday just how strong they both are.

Everyone who wants to see a Contador vs Landa battle will get what they want in the next two days. It's clear to everyone that all Aru can hope for at this point is to keep his place on the podium (I think he won't). One of the things that happened today is Astana's chance for having two riders to work over AC in the mountains evaporated. Contador doesn't need to worry about Aru--if Aru can even muster up the strength to make an attack AC can let him go, with a 6+ minute advantage--so the only Astana rider he needs to pay any attention to is Landa. That's a huge tactical advantage for Contador, and one he didn't have yesterday.

 

[deValtos]

Re: Re:

Landa pushed on yesterday because Aru couldn't. I don't think he's concerned about Aru since he has better legs and has obviously been given the go ahead to ride his own race. He was burnt when he reached the group and if he could have pushed on, and taking guys with him, would have. I think you're seeing what you WANT to see.

As for tomorrow and Saturday, I think we know how it goes. Contador isn't going to worry about anyone but Landa. He just has to follow wheels. Aru is shot/done and no longer a threat to him so he won't chase. Heck he might even concede time to Landa because it's all over except for the crying

What day are you talking about ? The Moritrolo one ? Landa didn't push on at all, he just followed wheels not taking a turn then attacked at the end because he had a ton of energy of left. Following team instructions, you know cause Aru was behind. You honestly think he doesn't care at all for team orders and Aru ? They'd love to get an Italian on the podium.

Also thats why I asked anyone to post even a single screen of Landa looking supposedly "burnt" after he reached the group because I didn't see one. Every time they showed him he looked like he was on a sunday ride. Post away please, cause I'll change my mind if I saw him looking in trouble when he reached the Aru group but I didn't see it.

Tactically it made sense to do what Landa did today.

 

[IamIronMan]

Re: Re:

Landa pushed on yesterday because Aru couldn't. I don't think he's concerned about Aru since he has better legs and has obviously been given the go ahead to ride his own race. He was burnt when he reached the group and if he could have pushed on, and taking guys with him, would have. I think you're seeing what you WANT to see.

As for tomorrow and Saturday, I think we know how it goes. Contador isn't going to worry about anyone but Landa. He just has to follow wheels. Aru is shot/done and no longer a threat to him so he won't chase. Heck he might even concede time to Landa because it's all over except for the crying

What day are you talking about ? The Moritrolo one ? Landa didn't push on at all, he just followed wheels not taking a turn then attacked at the end because he had a ton of energy of left. Following team instructions, you know cause Aru was behind. You honestly think he doesn't care at all for team orders and Aru ? They'd love to get an Italian on the podium.

Also thats why I asked anyone to post even a single screen of Landa looking supposedly "burnt" after he reached the group because I didn't see one. Every time they showed him he looked like he was on a sunday ride. Post away please, cause I'll change my mind if I saw him looking in trouble when he reached the Aru group but I didn't see it.

Tactically it made sense to do what Landa did today.

So tactically it makes sense to not chase down the guy in the lead when you are in second place, when-according to you-he was out for a Sunday ride? If that's the case, then Astana clearly have lost their marbles.

Aru was in a big enough group that could have towed him to the line, he wasn't losing any more than 1:13 regardless of what Landa was doing. It makes no sense to me why Landa would turn on the jets just to catch up to the Aru group, and then sit on. If he's that strong, have him chase on, while they were still climbing. Maybe another random guy from that group is strong today, and helps him, ala Ryder/Contador. So, there are two choices, either Landa was tired, or Astana have no idea what they are doing.

 

[deValtos]

Re: Re:

Aru was in a big enough group that could have towed him to the line, he wasn't losing any more than 1:13 regardless of what Landa was doing. It makes no sense to me why Landa would turn on the jets just to catch up to the Aru group, and then sit on. If he's that strong, have him chase on, while they were still climbing. Maybe another random guy from that group is strong today, and helps him, ala Ryder/Contador. So, there are two choices, either Landa was tired, or Astana have no idea what they are doing.

Um Aru wouldn't have been in a "big" group if Landa had pushed the pace on. Hence he'd have lost more time. That's logical no ?

You talk of another guy being strong from the group helping Landa. That other "guy" would've put time into Aru. Aru is one step closer to losing his podium spot. That's logical no ?

Landa said himself he won't beat Contador. He's concerned with 2nd spot. Why would he waste extra energy putting Aru at big risk to close down an extra 30 secs on Contador with 2 big stages left ? That's logical no ?

I don't see anything dumb about it. Kid rode smart. Still yet to see a photo of Landa struggling.

 

[autologous]

Re: Re:

Tactically it made sense to do what Landa did today.

yeah, you've got it exactly right.

reminds me of all those other grand tours where #2 on GC took it easy easy and willingly,intentionally, gave up more than a minute to #1.

Happens all the time. obvious tactics.

 

[Jspear]

Contador is softening up Team Astana for the Tour

Very good post.

 

[deValtos]

Re: Re:

Happens all the time. obvious tactics.

I know you're saying that sarcastically ... but it does actually happen happen all the time.

Think back to the Tour 2014, in the last mountain stages the frenchies and Valverde were more concerned with each other than Nibali riding up the road. They played their own little games on the mountains.

Literally every other cobble classic they ride for 2nd place. Or sometimes 3rd

It's not smart to screw over your own teammate for time thats not going to change the GC. Landa has said in interviews what he's focussing on.

 

[Metabolol]

Re: Re:

Landa pushed on yesterday because Aru couldn't. I don't think he's concerned about Aru since he has better legs and has obviously been given the go ahead to ride his own race. He was burnt when he reached the group and if he could have pushed on, and taking guys with him, would have. I think you're seeing what you WANT to see.

As for tomorrow and Saturday, I think we know how it goes. Contador isn't going to worry about anyone but Landa. He just has to follow wheels. Aru is shot/done and no longer a threat to him so he won't chase. Heck he might even concede time to Landa because it's all over except for the crying

What day are you talking about ? The Moritrolo one ? Landa didn't push on at all, he just followed wheels not taking a turn then attacked at the end because he had a ton of energy of left. Following team instructions, you know cause Aru was behind. You honestly think he doesn't care at all for team orders and Aru ? They'd love to get an Italian on the podium.

Also thats why I asked anyone to post even a single screen of Landa looking supposedly "burnt" after he reached the group because I didn't see one. Every time they showed him he looked like he was on a sunday ride. Post away please, cause I'll change my mind if I saw him looking in trouble when he reached the Aru group but I didn't see it.

Tactically it made sense to do what Landa did today.

If he had the legs he would have tried to minimize time loss to Contador. Bad day for Astana because both Aru and Landa lost time. How on earth can it make perfect sense from a tactial viewpoint?

 

[SeriousSam]

Re:

I don't think Contador has done anything special this Giro. Maybe the time trial.

But, not Mortirolo. Not today. No Maddona.

He's been average and hasn't pushed hard but won by virtue of still being better than everyone else and Astana choosing the wrong guy.

Great Contador was Fuente De. Great Contador was that Tirreno stage (IMO the 2nd best individual win this millenium after Flandis). Great Contador was the 2011 Giro where with a team just as crap he destroyed everyone everywhere. Great Contador were the 3 stages in 2011 of the Tour when he shook up the gc, and especially telegraph Galibier. Great Contador was winning the 2009 Tour despite his team trying to kill him from within.

This Giro has been nothing special. And that's ok because he needs to be good for the Tour.

If he pulls of that one though, this Giro together with the Tour will together be his greatest achievement.

Well said.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re:

I don't think Contador has done anything special this Giro. Maybe the time trial.

But, not Mortirolo. Not today. No Maddona.

He's been average and hasn't pushed hard but won by virtue of still being better than everyone else and Astana choosing the wrong guy.

Great Contador was Fuente De. Great Contador was that Tirreno stage (IMO the 2nd best individual win this millenium after Flandis). Great Contador was the 2011 Giro where with a team just as crap he destroyed everyone everywhere. Great Contador were the 3 stages in 2011 of the Tour when he shook up the gc, and especially telegraph Galibier. Great Contador was winning the 2009 Tour despite his team trying to kill him from within.

This Giro has been nothing special. And that's ok because he needs to be good for the Tour.

If he pulls of that one though, this Giro together with the Tour will together be his greatest achievement.

Pretty much agree with this.
The Contador this giro is not in superb form - he cannot be if he wants to have a shot at the double.

What he did today was amusing, but it's not as if he destroyed the field. Rider Hesjedahl bridged to him - also solo.

 

[Red Rick]

Contador shows that only he can do great things when just being on ok form. Kruijswijk, arguably the 3rd or 4th strongest climber in the race, tried to follow him for 1km and just broke down completely

 

[Up_The_Road]

Re:

I don't think Contador has done anything special this Giro. Maybe the time trial.

But, not Mortirolo. Not today. No Maddona.

He's been average and hasn't pushed hard but won by virtue of still being better than everyone else and Astana choosing the wrong guy.

Great Contador was Fuente De. Great Contador was that Tirreno stage (IMO the 2nd best individual win this millenium after Flandis). Great Contador was the 2011 Giro where with a team just as crap he destroyed everyone everywhere. Great Contador were the 3 stages in 2011 of the Tour when he shook up the gc, and especially telegraph Galibier. Great Contador was winning the 2009 Tour despite his team trying to kill him from within.

This Giro has been nothing special. And that's ok because he needs to be good for the Tour.

If he pulls of that one though, this Giro together with the Tour will together be his greatest achievement.

Contador erased the 50 second deficit on the Mortirolo in a little over 4 km. I'd say that was doing something special.

From the stage highlights, the climb started with 44.6 kms to go to the finish. AC caught Aru and Landa with 40.2 kms to go.

 

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

Re: Re:

That's a huge tactical advantage for Contador, and one he didn't have yesterday.

For the amount of times over the years that Contador has been in a position of needing to make key tactical decisions on the road - much more often than other riders who aren't at the sharp end of the GC stick nearly as much - his strike rate in achieving a positive outcome is remarkably good. Yes, he's had a few blunders that are easy to pick apart with 20/20 hindsight, but on the road in the moment his instincts and effectiveness with tactics have done really well for him in his career. Recall the infamous dig from Armstrong in 2009 about Contador still having a lot to learn, but the tale of time has shown that both in the remainder of that 2009 TdF, and many other GTs and stage races, that Contador is a far superior tactician to Armstrong, whose hubris concerning his own tactical IQ was largely fueled by the physical superiority of his entire team, a benefit which Contador has often not had.

 

[WheelofGear]

Contador's climbers are still useless. If he had a real climbing squad, the last man would have lasted to at least half up the climb.

Trofimov is a Russian, so that's a possibility.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Yes Contador is not in super shape. So perhaps we cannot say "he is great". But he is riding with great panache. That in my opinion is great.

 

[infeXio]

Re:

Contador's climbers are still useless. If he had a real climbing squad, the last man would have lasted to at least half up the climb.

Trofimov is a Russian, so that's a possibility.

So you didn't see Kreuziger dropping everyone bar Contador himself?
I'm not saying his team is great or has been great in this Giro by any means, but today Kreuziger smashed it at the front like Basso did in Ruta del Sol

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Re:

Every day is different. He would have attacked, but no way would have joined Landa. They are on par this Giro, you have to admit that.

But before you are going to scream, Contador is not at his top form yet. Landa is. That's why they are on par in the mountains. But they are on par.

Dude, there's a difference between doing an effort for not even half of the climb and for the whole climb in the case of Contador. Landa looked burnt when he reached the group, rewatch the climb.

And yes I know Contador is not in top form, that's why there's still hope for the Tour because to me he is spending too much effort in this Giro even though it's making him even more of a legend.

But Contador had a smaller gap to bridge on Mortirolo then Landa did on Ologno. Plus Landa had to chase on a Contador who was riding his own tempo, Contador had to chase on a Landa who was waiting for Aru who was struggling.

Never mind. The only thing i say is that you can't say Alberto was stronger then Landa on the climb. I hope we will get a fair duel between the two on Cervinia or Finestre. The only thing we did not had this Giro

I don't think we will ever see it. With their respected position now, each of them is in different interest. AC has 5+ of Landa. Why would he goes mano a mano, when his jersey is safe? to proof what? he is the strongest climber?? I don't know about everyone, but winning the GT is pretty darn good for an achievement . Unless AC wants to stick it to Astana, by pushing Aru off the podium *but that's just a crazy conspiracy *. B/c we would have seen the battle on Mortirolo between those two, if Astana didn't decide to join Katusha to go full gas in the first place (they admitted).

If Landa decides to attack, then Aru might be in danger loosing his podium spot, looking at how he has been struggling in the last few days. Didn't contador say something in the interview yesterday that if Astana was going too aggressive one of them might slip off the podium?

Some say, today Landa looked like doing sunday ride? LOL. If Astana has been touting their horn about how they want to try to win pink jersey, then loosing time today by doing sunday ride was definitely a stupid move, no?. And two, maybe that's how Landa looks like when he was on the limit... golish, what do I know? Fact is Astana got 3 men to chase AC. At the end, AC padded his lead again. Overall, great day at work for AC. ow yeah, even wih his so-so form, so nothing special

 

[ggusta]

Re: Re:

If he wasn't burnt, you're saying he WILLINGLY lost 1'13 because why? When Aru momentarily popped, Landa didn't dropped back for him, Kangert did. He was cooked. It happens. He's human, not a robot.

It seemed pretty obvious to me that pushing on would've potentially cost Aru some big time. So Landa just followed wheels, he's not going to wait for Aru himself but he followed anyone else attacking on the climb.

Now even if Landa and his team didn't care at all for Aru and suppose he did push on. He probably ends up on his own stuck in the middle with the last 30kms to himself and wasting a ton of energy. He's said himself it's almost impossible to beat Contador now so what did you think he was going to do ?

He rode smart, but didn't look on the limit at any point. Of course you see what you want to see.

Like I said before hopeully we can see on Friday & Saturday just how strong they both are.

Landa pushed on yesterday because Aru couldn't. I don't think he's concerned about Aru since he has better legs and has obviously been given the go ahead to ride his own race. He was burnt when he reached the group and if he could have pushed on, and taking guys with him, would have. I think you're seeing what you WANT to see.

As for tomorrow and Saturday, I think we know how it goes. Contador isn't going to worry about anyone but Landa. He just has to follow wheels. Aru is shot/done and no longer a threat to him so he won't chase. Heck he might even concede time to Landa because it's all over except for the crying

Exactly. Who let someone with a brain in here, (??)the last few days it has been like alice in wonderland around here. Not sure, maybe that's a good thing, new fans maybe? AC'll be chillin' he may have a little fun on Sat. but I doubt he will go all out for a stage win. Time to rest up for July. 5 min is a sweet cushion, I think he got out whatever angst he had pent up over Tuesday's stage today. Now it's time for Astana to bang their heads against the wall if they choose to, which they probably aren't going to. Lest they lose their 3rd spot.

 

[No_Balls]

Re: Re:

Bitter french newspaper suggesting AC is involved in a motor on bike conspiracy:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-checks-bikes-of-contador-hesjedal-and-gilbert-for-motors-at-giro-ditalia

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Bitter french newspaper suggesting AC is involved in a motor on bike conspiracy:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-checks-bikes-of-contador-hesjedal-and-gilbert-for-motors-at-giro-ditalia

Moronic. Now even a puncture is suspicious

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Bitter french newspaper suggesting AC is involved in a motor on bike conspiracy:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-checks-bikes-of-contador-hesjedal-and-gilbert-for-motors-at-giro-ditalia

AC said it himself...he has 5 motors in his bike!

 

[LaFlorecita]

The tests came on the day a report in French newspaper L’Equipe questioned Alberto Contador’s wheel change before the Mortirolo climb on Tuesday’s important mountain stage to Aprica.

The race leader stopped to take a wheel from Ivan Basso on the first descent from Aprica, chased back up to rivals Fabio Aru and Mikel Landa thanks to his teammates and then powered up the Mortirolo. He dropped Aru and rode away with Landa and Steven Kruijswijk (LottoNL-Jumbo), with Landa eventually going clear to win the stage.

Strangely, there are no television images of Contador stopping. Tinkoff-Saxo team owner Oleg Tinkov tweeted a photo of the alleged nail that caused Contador’s puncture but L’Equipe described what happened during the stage as a ‘Mystere’ and questioned why race radio did not announce Contador’s puncture.

So I guess they are saying he did not swap wheels but changed his bike... now I may be mistaken but only a rider's first bike has a number on it right? And the bike Berto rode on Mortirolo definitely had a number plate installed.

 

[No_Balls]

Re: Re:

Strangely, there are no television images of Contador stopping. Tinkoff-Saxo team owner Oleg Tinkov tweeted a photo of the alleged nail that caused Contador’s puncture but L’Equipe described what happened during the stage as a ‘Mystere’ and questioned why race radio did not announce Contador’s puncture.

Dont worry guys. L'equipe will reveal the truth tomorrow that Oleg and Alberto are in secret freemasons (have you seen their mystic gestures?) and Race Radio are bought by the illuminati.