Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Metabolol]

Re: Re:

That's a huge tactical advantage for Contador, and one he didn't have yesterday.

For the amount of times over the years that Contador has been in a position of needing to make key tactical decisions on the road - much more often than other riders who aren't at the sharp end of the GC stick nearly as much - his strike rate in achieving a positive outcome is remarkably good. Yes, he's had a few blunders that are easy to pick apart with 20/20 hindsight, but on the road in the moment his instincts and effectiveness with tactics have done really well for him in his career. Recall the infamous dig from Armstrong in 2009 about Contador still having a lot to learn, but the tale of time has shown that both in the remainder of that 2009 TdF, and many other GTs and stage races, that Contador is a far superior tactician to Armstrong, whose hubris concerning his own tactical IQ was largely fueled by the physical superiority of his entire team, a benefit which Contador has often not had.

Lance was just being manipulative as usual. I'm sure many believed Armstrong's bs but Contador knew exactly what he was doing. Lance wanted the jersey to force Alberto on the defensive. But I'm sure Alberto would have attacked Lance in yellow. He didn't give a **** about Lance or his toadies.

 

[Electress]

Re:

Best pos eva.

And regarding l'Equipe, I sort of remember seeing Ivan Basso putting back on a wheel on the TV…
Gees, talk about deluded.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

I don't think Contador has done anything special this Giro. Maybe the time trial.

But, not Mortirolo. Not today. No Maddona.

He's been average and hasn't pushed hard but won by virtue of still being better than everyone else and Astana choosing the wrong guy.

Great Contador was Fuente De. Great Contador was that Tirreno stage (IMO the 2nd best individual win this millenium after Flandis). Great Contador was the 2011 Giro where with a team just as crap he destroyed everyone everywhere. Great Contador were the 3 stages in 2011 of the Tour when he shook up the gc, and especially telegraph Galibier. Great Contador was winning the 2009 Tour despite his team trying to kill him from within.

This Giro has been nothing special. And that's ok because he needs to be good for the Tour.

If he pulls of that one though, this Giro together with the Tour will together be his greatest achievement.

You (un)hyped this post like you usually do.I agree with you, his form is nothing special.He will won because competition is crap, but I think you underestimate Mortirolo and his overall Giro performace.His team is as *** as 2011 (ok,not really but still very bad and lot worse than Astana) so he spent more energy than he had to and that Mortitolo perfromance was amazing, its up there with etna and fuente de.Maybe its not so legendary as those cuz there was no stage win, but its certainly up there.

Also you (not only you Hitch) overestimate his ability to be lot better at Tour than at the Giro, I cant see that coming,tbh its sounds like sci-fi to me.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

I don't think Contador has done anything special this Giro. Maybe the time trial.

But, not Mortirolo. Not today. No Maddona.

He's been average and hasn't pushed hard but won by virtue of still being better than everyone else and Astana choosing the wrong guy.

Great Contador was Fuente De. Great Contador was that Tirreno stage (IMO the 2nd best individual win this millenium after Flandis). Great Contador was the 2011 Giro where with a team just as crap he destroyed everyone everywhere. Great Contador were the 3 stages in 2011 of the Tour when he shook up the gc, and especially telegraph Galibier. Great Contador was winning the 2009 Tour despite his team trying to kill him from within.

This Giro has been nothing special. And that's ok because he needs to be good for the Tour.

If he pulls of that one though, this Giro together with the Tour will together be his greatest achievement.

Contador erased the 50 second deficit on the Mortirolo in a little over 4 km. I'd say that was doing something special.

From the stage highlights, the climb started with 44.6 kms to go to the finish. AC caught Aru and Landa with 40.2 kms to go.

That's 4km of Mortirolo. That's the equivalent of about 20k on the flat.

I've seen people including Contador put in far more time in far less distance on far easier climbs. Against better climbers than 2015 Giro Aru who was holding everyone else back allowing Contador to come back.

If Contador had won the stage I might have considered it great. That's what great Contador would do. He would fly past them immediately after catching them. That's what great Bertie would do.

 

[ray j willings]

Bertie looks like he is riding below his best. He looks great and he is doing what he needs to do to win. He could be holding something back. He is certainly not going to show his full hand with the double in mind. He needs to keep the other teams on the back-foot
He will need more to win the Tour. If he can be like his early form last year then he can win the Tour.
Bertie has been there and done that. I think he will be stronger at the tour and be a real threat.

 

[Electress]

Re:

Yes Contador is not in super shape. So perhaps we cannot say "he is great". But he is riding with great panache. That in my opinion is great.

I suppose it's a compliment that everyone sets such as massively high standard for Contador that, having crashed twice, dislocated his shoulder, punctured at a very inopportune time and had two teams working together to distance him, he's still leading the Giro by over 5 minutes from his nearest rivals. Gees, what does the poor sod have to do?

I guess that's why he's trying for the double.

 

[jilbiker]

Re:

Bertie looks like he is riding below his best. He looks great and he is doing what he needs to do to win. He could be holding something back. He is certainly not going to show his full hand with the double in mind. He needs to keep the other teams on the back-foot
He will need more to win the Tour. If he can be like his early form last year then he can win the Tour.
Bertie has been there and done that. I think he will be stronger at the tour and be a real threat.

Bertie had better have more up his belt. The tour is against Nibs, Froome and Quintana! He needs his Giro performance and 50% more. But the one plus I say about Bertie is that is he has the best race brains of the lot.
He is 62kg now, his peak weight is 60kg. I wonder if he comes into the Tour at 61kg, is he reserving 1kg for the Vuelta?

I wonder if TinkoS are really that bad or was this part of a strategic plan? play it down so they have reserves for the Tour because if they have all the big guns here and it seems they do, I wonder who will be in the Tour?? Majek alone?

 

[BlurryVII]

Luckily AC is smarter than some people posting on here, and knows it'd be stupid to be in thermonuclear form right now. He is in good form, the TT he did last week was one of the best of his career, probably on par with the one he did around Annecy 09' and he is showing great panache, everytime he wins a GT in a different way, and I love this one. He is winning by 5 minutes despite crashes, injury and pretty much alone against a strong Astana.

But no, apparently it's not enough for some blood thirsty fans who wanna see him leave Landa for dead on Mortirolo starting one minute behind and shattering the record from 1999 . And today, put 3 minutes into the peloton on Ologno, solo, catch the breakaway who was 9 minutes ahead, drop them and win the stage.
For god's sake.

 

[boringboy]

I agree, he is a smart guy who knows how to win, you cant expect him to win every stage, by himself, and attack on every mountain putting 4-5 min into the other contenders on every mountain. However even if he did that, I am sure people would just say it is weak competitions and/or he has motors in bike.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

I don't think Contador has done anything special this Giro. Maybe the time trial.

But, not Mortirolo. Not today. No Maddona.

He's been average and hasn't pushed hard but won by virtue of still being better than everyone else and Astana choosing the wrong guy.

Great Contador was Fuente De. Great Contador was that Tirreno stage (IMO the 2nd best individual win this millenium after Flandis). Great Contador was the 2011 Giro where with a team just as crap he destroyed everyone everywhere. Great Contador were the 3 stages in 2011 of the Tour when he shook up the gc, and especially telegraph Galibier. Great Contador was winning the 2009 Tour despite his team trying to kill him from within.

This Giro has been nothing special. And that's ok because he needs to be good for the Tour.

If he pulls of that one though, this Giro together with the Tour will together be his greatest achievement.

You (un)hyped this post like you usually do.I agree with you, his form is nothing special.He will won because competition is crap, but I think you underestimate Mortirolo and his overall Giro performace.His team is as **** as 2011 (ok,not really but still very bad and lot worse than Astana) so he spent more energy than he had to and that Mortitolo perfromance was amazing, its up there with etna and fuente de.Maybe its not so legendary as those cuz there was no stage win, but its certainly up there.

Also you (not only you Hitch) overestimate his ability to be lot better at Tour than at the Giro, I cant see that coming,tbh its sounds like sci-fi to me.

The form he has now would probably be enough to beat both Quintana and Nibali. I don't know about Froome, but if his form gets better for the Tour, then it's bonus.

At least with this kind of form, he gives a fight and is really hard to drop. That's how high Contador's standards are, he doesn't need to be in top form to be winning a GT. Now if he happens to peak for the Tour, it's game over.

 

[lenric]

I don't understand why the fuzz about this version of Contador.

Clearly he doesn't go thermonuclear as fast as he once did (hey, he's 32), clearly he hasn't the acceleration power he had in the past, but he's still one of the best.

It's obvious that he's spending more energy than he thought he'd do in this Giro, but he's also not at his peak.

He's not better than Landa today and he'd have a hard time if Landa was the chosen one for the GC by Astana, but he's leading and that's what matters, no matter if he's the strongest on the mountains, or whatever.

Clearly Contador played his cards right when preparing this Giro, because his known main rival is way weaker than him, thing is, nobody was expecting Landa to be so good, and that's exactly what will *** Contador's chances of winning le Tour.
But that's life. You can't control everything.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re:

I don't understand why the fuzz about this version of Contador.

Clearly he doesn't go thermonuclear as fast as he once did (hey, he's 32), clearly he hasn't the acceleration power he had in the past, but he's still one of the best.

It's obvious that he's spending more energy than he thought he'd do in this Giro, but he's also not at his peak.

He's not better than Landa today and he'd have a hard time if Landa was the chosen one for the GC by Astana, but he's leading and that's what matters, no matter if he's the strongest on the mountains, or whatever.

Clearly Contador played his cards right when preparing this Giro, because his known main rival is way weaker than him, thing is, nobody was expecting Landa to be so good, and that's exactly what will **** Contador's chances of winning le Tour.
But that's life. You can't control everything.

Landa chosen as leader at the start of the Giro wouldn't have changed anything, Contador would still be leading by at least 4.30 min. It could be even worse since Contador would actually focus on his a s s .

 

[Jelantik]

i rewatched the stage again. One thing for sure, Aru is hanging by the thread right now. If tomorrow Truvimov, Konig and Amador have their team mate to hit Aru, he will most likely lost his podium. If Landa needs to protect him, that means he will be held back if some other GC wants to attack Aru.

Also I didn't see Landa riding like in sunday ride either. He definitely put a huge effort to catch Aru's group. tomorrow it will be interesting who still have left in the tank tomorrow. Everyone spent the same amount of energy as Contador. Aru was vulnerable today. He was yo-yoing at the back. Today he was lucky because theres a decent.

I hope Contador has something left for to next 2 days. Contador can ride defensively. But who are we to make prediction? everyone is worry about him saving his energy for the tour, just to see him attack in some 40+km on the mountain by himself in the last 2 mountain stage. I leave in the present. Contador isn't going to be in the shape of 2011. He is older now. So this is his form. I don't know what you call, when he got 4 minutes ahead, but he still attacked and rode solo in the mountain knowing that the next hard mountain stage are about to come. If it's not that special for some of you, then maybe today Contador looked like his doing his typical sunday ride. For a sunday ride, it's not too shabby.

 

[The Hitch]

I called it during the stage !!!! (Am having a great Giro prediction wise)

Conta just changing to the bike with the motor. No biggie.

 

[movingtarget]

i rewatched the stage again. One thing for sure, Aru is hanging by the thread right now. If tomorrow Truvimov, Konig and Amador have their team mate to hit Aru, he will most likely lost his podium. If Landa needs to protect him, that means he will be held back if some other GC wants to attack Aru.

Also I didn't see Landa riding like in sunday ride either. He definitely put a huge effort to catch Aru's group. tomorrow it will be interesting who still have left in the tank tomorrow. Everyone spent the same amount of energy as Contador. Aru was vulnerable today. He was yo-yoing at the back. Today he was lucky because theres a decent.

I hope Contador has something left for to next 2 days. Contador can ride defensively. But who are we to make prediction? everyone is worry about him saving his energy for the tour, just to see him attack in some 40+km on the mountain by himself in the last 2 mountain stage. I leave in the present. Contador isn't going to be in the shape of 2011. He is older now. So this is his form. I don't know what you call, when he got 4 minutes ahead, but he still attacked and rode solo in the mountain knowing that the next hard mountain stage are about to come. If it's not that special for some of you, then maybe today Contador looked like his doing his typical sunday ride. For a sunday ride, it's not too shabby.

Yes I think Amador has a good shot at a podium place. Aru seems to have reached his limit. Fatigue seems to have got the better of him.

 

[contador977]

Does Contador have the form right now to win the Tour? I dont think he does. Id guess he is 90% climbing legs. I dont think he has the same punch as the Vuelta right now..tough call. I wonder if his plan is to lose 1-2 kg before the Tour.

Anyway. If he wraps this Giro up and can win the Tour...thats 3 Grand Tours in a row...incredible.

 

[contador977]

Re: Re:

That's a huge tactical advantage for Contador, and one he didn't have yesterday.

For the amount of times over the years that Contador has been in a position of needing to make key tactical decisions on the road - much more often than other riders who aren't at the sharp end of the GC stick nearly as much - his strike rate in achieving a positive outcome is remarkably good. Yes, he's had a few blunders that are easy to pick apart with 20/20 hindsight, but on the road in the moment his instincts and effectiveness with tactics have done really well for him in his career. Recall the infamous dig from Armstrong in 2009 about Contador still having a lot to learn, but the tale of time has shown that both in the remainder of that 2009 TdF, and many other GTs and stage races, that Contador is a far superior tactician to Armstrong, whose hubris concerning his own tactical IQ was largely fueled by the physical superiority of his entire team, a benefit which Contador has often not had.

Armstrong was trying hard to manipulate Contador...the crosswinds jab,the attempt to use superior TT wheels which Contador requested also but was denied and in the end sent his brother out to get them in France and used the same ones as Armstrong in the TT. Its pretty admirable that Contador stood up to that whole scenario and attacked with fire on Verbier.

 

[Iker_Baqueiro]

Re:

I don't think Contador has done anything special this Giro. Maybe the time trial.

But, not Mortirolo. Not today. No Maddona.

He's been average and hasn't pushed hard but won by virtue of still being better than everyone else and Astana choosing the wrong guy.

Great Contador was Fuente De. Great Contador was that Tirreno stage (IMO the 2nd best individual win this millenium after Flandis). Great Contador was the 2011 Giro where with a team just as crap he destroyed everyone everywhere. Great Contador were the 3 stages in 2011 of the Tour when he shook up the gc, and especially telegraph Galibier. Great Contador was winning the 2009 Tour despite his team trying to kill him from within.

This Giro has been nothing special. And that's ok because he needs to be good for the Tour.

If he pulls of that one though, this Giro together with the Tour will together be his greatest achievement.

I don't agree on one item. Contador was not in great form at Fuente De (Vuelta 2012). He won that Vuelta just because of his tremendously high IQ, audacity and guts. He said so himself in an interview. Purito was killing him on every stage finish. Valverde too. Contador said: "there was a day where I was very vulnerable, but, I'm not going to say which". He hid it from his rivals.

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Re:

I don't understand why the fuzz about this version of Contador.

Clearly he doesn't go thermonuclear as fast as he once did (hey, he's 32), clearly he hasn't the acceleration power he had in the past, but he's still one of the best.

It's obvious that he's spending more energy than he thought he'd do in this Giro, but he's also not at his peak.

He's not better than Landa today and he'd have a hard time if Landa was the chosen one for the GC by Astana, but he's leading and that's what matters, no matter if he's the strongest on the mountains, or whatever.

Clearly Contador played his cards right when preparing this Giro, because his known main rival is way weaker than him, thing is, nobody was expecting Landa to be so good, and that's exactly what will **** Contador's chances of winning le Tour.
But that's life. You can't control everything.

Landa chosen as leader at the start of the Giro wouldn't have changed anything, Contador would still be leading by at least 4.30 min. It could be even worse since Contador would actually focus on his a s s .

agreed. Landa lost a lot of time in ITT anyway. What might be changing is probably he will be far ahead from Amador and the rest of the GC guys.

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

I don't understand why the fuzz about this version of Contador.

Clearly he doesn't go thermonuclear as fast as he once did (hey, he's 32), clearly he hasn't the acceleration power he had in the past, but he's still one of the best.

It's obvious that he's spending more energy than he thought he'd do in this Giro, but he's also not at his peak.

He's not better than Landa today and he'd have a hard time if Landa was the chosen one for the GC by Astana, but he's leading and that's what matters, no matter if he's the strongest on the mountains, or whatever.

Clearly Contador played his cards right when preparing this Giro, because his known main rival is way weaker than him, thing is, nobody was expecting Landa to be so good, and that's exactly what will **** Contador's chances of winning le Tour.
But that's life. You can't control everything.

Landa chosen as leader at the start of the Giro wouldn't have changed anything, Contador would still be leading by at least 4.30 min. It could be even worse since Contador would actually focus on his a s s .

You're using a fallacious argument. I don't doubt that Contador would be superior to Landa in the ITT, however, I believe that Landa would be superior to him in the mountains. Contador would follow Landa's attacks, but wouldn't be able to always keep the pace.

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Re:

I don't understand why the fuzz about this version of Contador.

Clearly he doesn't go thermonuclear as fast as he once did (hey, he's 32), clearly he hasn't the acceleration power he had in the past, but he's still one of the best.

It's obvious that he's spending more energy than he thought he'd do in this Giro, but he's also not at his peak.

He's not better than Landa today and he'd have a hard time if Landa was the chosen one for the GC by Astana, but he's leading and that's what matters, no matter if he's the strongest on the mountains, or whatever.

Clearly Contador played his cards right when preparing this Giro, because his known main rival is way weaker than him, thing is, nobody was expecting Landa to be so good, and that's exactly what will **** Contador's chances of winning le Tour.
But that's life. You can't control everything.

Landa chosen as leader at the start of the Giro wouldn't have changed anything, Contador would still be leading by at least 4.30 min. It could be even worse since Contador would actually focus on his a s s .

You're using a fallacious argument. I don't doubt that Contador would be superior to Landa in the ITT, however, I believe that Landa would be superior to him in the mountains. Contador would follow Landa's attacks, but wouldn't be able to always keep the pace.

well this argument is the same as woulda shoulda coulda.. don't you think? There's no proof that contador can't follow Landa's pace since these two haven't been mano a mano with both are starting on equal ground so far. At least that's what I saw on the race. (unless you were watching different race ). Maybe we got lucky tomorrow or saturday.

 

[murali]

when Contador decides to attack long-range with no guarantee of success, still makes 1:15 on rivals despite having a mechanical and waiting for Ryder to join him, the only thing that can be said:
__/\__

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

I don't think Contador has done anything special this Giro. Maybe the time trial.

But, not Mortirolo. Not today. No Maddona.

He's been average and hasn't pushed hard but won by virtue of still being better than everyone else and Astana choosing the wrong guy.

Great Contador was Fuente De. Great Contador was that Tirreno stage (IMO the 2nd best individual win this millenium after Flandis). Great Contador was the 2011 Giro where with a team just as crap he destroyed everyone everywhere. Great Contador were the 3 stages in 2011 of the Tour when he shook up the gc, and especially telegraph Galibier. Great Contador was winning the 2009 Tour despite his team trying to kill him from within.

This Giro has been nothing special. And that's ok because he needs to be good for the Tour.

If he pulls of that one though, this Giro together with the Tour will together be his greatest achievement.

I don't agree on one item. Contador was not in great form at Fuente De (Vuelta 2012). He won that Vuelta just because of his tremendously high IQ, audacity and guts. He said so himself in an interview. Purito was killing him on every stage finish. Valverde too. Contador said: "there was a day where I was very vulnerable, but, I'm not going to say which". He hid it from his rivals.

He wasnt in great form in 2011 tour or 2012 vuelta but he showed greatness by attacking nonetheless and cracking stronger riders.

Also Valverde definitely wasn't killing him in 12 vuelta. Was clearly behind contador and Murito.

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

I don't understand why the fuzz about this version of Contador.

Clearly he doesn't go thermonuclear as fast as he once did (hey, he's 32), clearly he hasn't the acceleration power he had in the past, but he's still one of the best.

It's obvious that he's spending more energy than he thought he'd do in this Giro, but he's also not at his peak.

He's not better than Landa today and he'd have a hard time if Landa was the chosen one for the GC by Astana, but he's leading and that's what matters, no matter if he's the strongest on the mountains, or whatever.

Clearly Contador played his cards right when preparing this Giro, because his known main rival is way weaker than him, thing is, nobody was expecting Landa to be so good, and that's exactly what will **** Contador's chances of winning le Tour.
But that's life. You can't control everything.

Landa chosen as leader at the start of the Giro wouldn't have changed anything, Contador would still be leading by at least 4.30 min. It could be even worse since Contador would actually focus on his a s s .

You're using a fallacious argument. I don't doubt that Contador would be superior to Landa in the ITT, however, I believe that Landa would be superior to him in the mountains. Contador would follow Landa's attacks, but wouldn't be able to always keep the pace.

well this argument is the same as woulda shoulda coulda.. don't you think? There's no proof that contador can't follow Landa's pace since these two haven't been mano a mano with both are starting on equal ground so far. At least that's what I saw on the race. (unless you were watching different race ). Maybe we got lucky tomorrow or saturday.

No, because Contador was never able to drop Landa whenever they faced each other. This is a fact. Alluding to the excuse of not being on equal ground isn't really good IMO, since Landa spent energy too by being a domestic until 4/5 days ago.


I support Contador, however, I don't quite understand why are people so excited about his climbing ability when his 5-minute advantage over the second place was obtained through ITT and today's quite strange stage.

To me, Contador is the best all-round rider in this year's Giro, I simply question if he's the best climber. No doubt, however, that he'd be, by far, the best one, would he be at his peak. This question will be, I hope, clarified in the next 2 days.

His winning, however, will make him be the first cyclist to win every GT 3 times (I guess). That's just *** astounding.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

I don't think Contador has done anything special this Giro. Maybe the time trial.

But, not Mortirolo. Not today. No Maddona.

He's been average and hasn't pushed hard but won by virtue of still being better than everyone else and Astana choosing the wrong guy.

Great Contador was Fuente De. Great Contador was that Tirreno stage (IMO the 2nd best individual win this millenium after Flandis). Great Contador was the 2011 Giro where with a team just as crap he destroyed everyone everywhere. Great Contador were the 3 stages in 2011 of the Tour when he shook up the gc, and especially telegraph Galibier. Great Contador was winning the 2009 Tour despite his team trying to kill him from within.

This Giro has been nothing special. And that's ok because he needs to be good for the Tour.

If he pulls of that one though, this Giro together with the Tour will together be his greatest achievement.

You (un)hyped this post like you usually do.I agree with you, his form is nothing special.He will won because competition is crap, but I think you underestimate Mortirolo and his overall Giro performace.His team is as **** as 2011 (ok,not really but still very bad and lot worse than Astana) so he spent more energy than he had to and that Mortitolo perfromance was amazing, its up there with etna and fuente de.Maybe its not so legendary as those cuz there was no stage win, but its certainly up there.

Also you (not only you Hitch) overestimate his ability to be lot better at Tour than at the Giro, I cant see that coming,tbh its sounds like sci-fi to me.

The form he has now would probably be enough to beat both Quintana and Nibali. I don't know about Froome, but if his form gets better for the Tour, then it's bonus.

At least with this kind of form, he gives a fight and is really hard to drop. That's how high Contador's standards are, he doesn't need to be in top form to be winning a GT. Now if he happens to peak for the Tour, it's game over.

I very much doubt that,maybe he would beat them Contador-ish style (unexpected attack etc) but I doubt he would drop them mano a mano.Hard to say, I hope you guys are right an he improves for Le Tour,but Im a realist.