https://mobile.twitter.com/olegtinkov/status/604909315267436544/photo/1
Couldn't post the pic itself but take a look at Tinkov's Twitter
Couldn't post the pic itself but take a look at Tinkov's Twitter
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Jagartrott said:Seeing how Landa also did a lot of domestique duties and was kept on a rather tight leash, it's indeed quite logical to state that he was the best climber in this race (although I have a hard time believing he did it clean). You may not care about this, but several others here and elsewhere seemed to take offense to that, going as far as accusing people of trolling - trolling, just because someone doesn't agree with their position. I'm finding that all quite obnoxious and arrogant, and it spoils any serious discussion. If this was contained to this thread, that'd be OK, but it's also in the race threads and people are quite aggressive.ggusta said:If it makes you feel better to say that Landa (in particular) is a better climber, then go ahead. I would be foolish to argue the point. What do I care? Contador won the race. He has won 8 others (on the road), don't you think there is something correlative about him in particular other than his climbing that accounts for that? Or is it always just circumstance?
To be clear, I don't have any real race favourites, and I actually dislike Astana because I find them dodgy and I don't think people like Vinokourov should be involved in cycling. I look at races to enjoy the racing, and I don't particularly care who wins as long as he displays some kind of panache and I can more or less trust the result. So I don't really understand why people can be so 'into' one rider in particular - but I'm OK with it. What I'm not OK with is attacking other people for having a different view, or constantly shifting explanations post-date just so the story continuous to confirm the riders superiority. For example, the view 2 days ago (after the Cervinia stage) that Contador was such a boss for destroying Landa mentally, and that he could've attacked whenever he wanted. It's annoying to read such things in different forms every day also in the race thread AND at the same time see people being called trolls for stating another opinion (like Taxus, when he said yesterday that Contador in the current form would not be up to Froome and Quintana, and possibly Nibali and Pinot). "Don't feed the trolls" etc. Yeah.
You're "fans" and it's normal things get heated, others are "Skybots". OK.No_Balls said:1. The reason (some) AC-fans got furious by this was of course the early established narrative that Landa was in the race the better climber, and that climbing was all-important, before we actually knew this with certainty. Of course, given that they were all skybots it was necessary to quickly adopt Landa and conviently "forget" the embarrasing time trial from both Landa and Porte, and in systematic order of reducing the importance in Albertos victory, establish this point about climbing. Thats why we've seen the likes of Sam shifting stances from both pointing out the overriding importance of winning the Tour to the points about climbing rubbed in our face with clinical precision after each stage. When AC attacked in Cervinia the adopt attitude was faking that he'd cared and was "worried" it could jeopardise the Tour, at Mortirolo it was necessary to slam in AC-fans faces that Landa as the better climber could have done more, with the sole purpose of winding up fans. Now, the ring-leader tells its "a joke" and cries about "AC-fans". Of course, it gets heated sometimes, we are fans after all. What is definitively pathetic is houlier than thou-figures or self proclaimed voices of reason who takes a pleasure in winding up fans and then cries about the result.
2. As i was very active with that whole "destroy-Landa-mentally" thing. Whats strange with that? Its not like stating to the press saying "Alberto creates chaos in Astana" and "starts a war between me and Fabio" because of his shifted focus from Fabio to Mikel, directed who gets on the second step or who dont, is a normal thing to say to the press. Besides, we wouldnt even have this discussion if it was not for yesterday. Of course this statement could be wrong but again instead of confront me/us with that people take offense and goes crybabies "ohh, look how disrespectful THEY are". I see a lot of sneaky comments from the ton of sockpuppets which i dont care about but i suppose they are not a problem.
No_Balls said:Jagartrott said:Seeing how Landa also did a lot of domestique duties and was kept on a rather tight leash, it's indeed quite logical to state that he was the best climber in this race (although I have a hard time believing he did it clean). You may not care about this, but several others here and elsewhere seemed to take offense to that, going as far as accusing people of trolling - trolling, just because someone doesn't agree with their position. I'm finding that all quite obnoxious and arrogant, and it spoils any serious discussion. If this was contained to this thread, that'd be OK, but it's also in the race threads and people are quite aggressive.ggusta said:If it makes you feel better to say that Landa (in particular) is a better climber, then go ahead. I would be foolish to argue the point. What do I care? Contador won the race. He has won 8 others (on the road), don't you think there is something correlative about him in particular other than his climbing that accounts for that? Or is it always just circumstance?
To be clear, I don't have any real race favourites, and I actually dislike Astana because I find them dodgy and I don't think people like Vinokourov should be involved in cycling. I look at races to enjoy the racing, and I don't particularly care who wins as long as he displays some kind of panache and I can more or less trust the result. So I don't really understand why people can be so 'into' one rider in particular - but I'm OK with it. What I'm not OK with is attacking other people for having a different view, or constantly shifting explanations post-date just so the story continuous to confirm the riders superiority. For example, the view 2 days ago (after the Cervinia stage) that Contador was such a boss for destroying Landa mentally, and that he could've attacked whenever he wanted. It's annoying to read such things in different forms every day also in the race thread AND at the same time see people being called trolls for stating another opinion (like Taxus, when he said yesterday that Contador in the current form would not be up to Froome and Quintana, and possibly Nibali and Pinot). "Don't feed the trolls" etc. Yeah.
I"ll answer too since it concerns me also.
Here's the deal:
1. The reason (some) AC-fans got furious by this was of course the early established narrative that Landa was in the race the better climber, and that climbing was all-important, before we actually knew this with certainty. Of course, given that they were all skybots it was necessary to quickly adopt Landa and conviently "forget" the embarrasing time trial from both Landa and Porte, and in systematic order of reducing the importance in Albertos victory, establish this point about climbing. Thats why we've seen the likes of Sam shifting stances from both pointing out the overriding importance of winning the Tour to the points about climbing rubbed in our face with clinical precision after each stage. When AC attacked in Cervinia the adopt attitude was faking that he'd cared and was "worried" it could jeopardise the Tour, at Mortirolo it was necessary to slam in AC-fans faces that Landa as the better climber could have done more, with the sole purpose of winding up fans. Now, the ring-leader tells its "a joke" and cries about "AC-fans". Of course, it gets heated sometimes, we are fans after all. What is definitively pathetic is houlier than thou-figures or self proclaimed voices of reason who takes a pleasure in winding up fans and then cries about the result.
2. As i was very active with that whole "destroy-Landa-mentally" thing. Whats strange with that? Its not like stating to the press saying "Alberto creates chaos in Astana" and "starts a war between me and Fabio" because of his shifted focus from Fabio to Mikel, directed who gets on the second step or who dont, is a normal thing to say to the press. Besides, we wouldnt even have this discussion if it was not for yesterday. Of course this statement could be wrong but again instead of confront me/us with that people take offense and goes crybabies "ohh, look how disrespectful THEY are". I see a lot of sneaky comments from the ton of sockpuppets which i dont care about but i suppose they are not a problem.
hrotha said:1. Personally I'm a little upset that, after three weeks, I still don't know for sure who was the best climber between Contador and Landa. I suspect it might have been Landa towards the end of the race, but they only had like, what, one duel where all things were equal? (And that was a draw, too). It all depends on how you interpret Finestre: Contador having a bad day, or Contador blowing himself up by trying to follow Landa.
2. Being the best climber in the race matters little, and Contador was the best racer overall by far. I've found him tactically inept in the past, when he was young, but it seems to me he rode almost perfectly here, managing every dangerous situation masterfully and even playing one Astana against the other.
3. This thread is insufferable in high doses thanks to the fanboy/girl mafia. This is not your personal playground, and people are perfectly entitled to talk **** about Contador as they see fit.
Good post hrothahrotha said:1. Personally I'm a little upset that, after three weeks, I still don't know for sure who was the best climber between Contador and Landa. I suspect it might have been Landa towards the end of the race, but they only had like, what, one duel where all things were equal? (And that was a draw, too). It all depends on how you interpret Finestre: Contador having a bad day, or Contador blowing himself up by trying to follow Landa.
2. Being the best climber in the race matters little, and Contador was the best racer overall by far. I've found him tactically inept in the past, when he was young, but it seems to me he rode almost perfectly here, managing every dangerous situation masterfully and even playing one Astana against the other.
3. This thread is insufferable in high doses thanks to the fanboy/girl mafia. This is not your personal playground, and people are perfectly entitled to talk **** about Contador as they see fit.
jens_attacks said:Grande alberto!
So 9 and after le tour, 10 in the bag i wish
I really hope he stays until 2017 to beat merckx and bebest grand tour rider of all times
Vamos!
The Hitch said:Some of the Contador fans need to lighten up. The way a few I won't name pretty much abuse any poster who comes in here to say something that they don't immediately recognize as praiseful of Contador, is far worse.
Jancouver said:The Hitch said:Err it was clearly a joke. If you read Serious Sam's posting history you would know that he is just about the last guy who would get on Contador's case for saying 3 giros.ferryman said:Your constant trolling is getting you into the red zone Sam. Give it a break now until July eh.SeriousSam said:Anyone know what he's referring to in that pic? His 3 Vuelta victories? Would be somewhat disrespectful to the tifosi.
Some of the Contador fans need to lighten up. The way a few I won't name pretty much abuse any poster who comes in here to say something that they don't immediately recognize as praiseful of Contador, is far worse.
No kidding, the three musketeers (LaFlo, iLoveCycling, Carols) have this thread locked and under control. They are lucky I cant say anything negative about Bert otherwise this thread would turn into another Porte/Fetancur style fireworks
Andro said:The Hitch said:Some of the Contador fans need to lighten up. The way a few I won't name pretty much abuse any poster who comes in here to say something that they don't immediately recognize as praiseful of Contador, is far worse.
Perfect summation of this thread. The main problem is that they also take their fanboy crap into the race threads and mock anybody who says something about Contador that is less than total praise.
Carols said:LaFlorecita said:
That is a Nice bike and just my color
"Insult Contador" - you mean anything that is not 100% positive (I have never insulted Contador)?No_Balls said:Thats a pretty good summary Ray. They cry that they cant insult AC in a thread with his name because they then have to face some pretty heated counterarguments from "a mafia". After calling them out on their behavior they act offended and plays the morality card ( "jagartrotts" response is a prime example of this).
Oh well, this is my last response in this debate. This is a day to celebrate and nothing else
Jagartrott said:He has said this was his last Giro.