Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[perico]

Re: Re:

Bertie is definitely struggling. I hate to say it but yesterday Froome proved he his stronger in this race.
Unless Bertie gets some serious form I think he will be dropped in the mountains by Froome ,TJ, and Quintana etc.
He looks tired riding on the flat.
I really hope Bertie comes into form and it is early day's.

I think Contador already is cooked. I haven't seen him as weak and flat as I saw him on the Mur de Huy since the 2011 Tour de France, when Contador also was riding the TDF after riding the Giro.

As soon as Froome attacked and when the grade went way up, Contador realized he had no legs, and actually sat down, something he never does when he's flying. The excuses about the Mur de Huy being a short, steep climb, and that Alberto prefers long climbs, is baloney. He's a terrific sharp grade climber, I remember him toying with the field on the Monte Zoncolan in 2011. He's an incredible everywhere climber, arguably the best ever (I still love Ricco as my #1, I think Landa will prove to be amazing, Pantani is legendary).

You are comparing Huy to Zoncolan?

In that both have huge grade, on which Contador is terrific. Froome would never be able to drop Contador on the Zoncolan, or L'Angliru, or Mortirolo, or Huy, or any 100 meter stretch of the foregoing, were Contador on form and not Giro-exhausted.

He took the wrong line at his limit. He overlooked himself. Neither Nibali nor Quintana even attempted to follow Froome and Purito. Had Contador not he would likely have put time into both. Froome is flying right now, but we're Contador weaker than the others, he would not have been able to finish in the main group on a bum wheel today. He looked very strong up until that point.

I'm not saying he is going to beat Froome right now, who is peaking, but neither Nibali nor Quintana have shown to be stronger than AC thus far. I also think the Giro was a dumb idea and could cost him the Tour, and that he underestimates what another victory would do for his legacy. However even without Bjarn, DeJongh, Yates, and Julich are the best in the business and would know what Alberto is capable of. He's still 2nd of the big four with over a minute on Nibali and Nairo. He's in better shape than 2013, when he couldn't win a race if he had been the only one lining up.

 

[ninjadriver]

Re: Re:

Bertie is definitely struggling. I hate to say it but yesterday Froome proved he his stronger in this race.
Unless Bertie gets some serious form I think he will be dropped in the mountains by Froome ,TJ, and Quintana etc.
He looks tired riding on the flat.
I really hope Bertie comes into form and it is early day's.

I think Contador already is cooked. I haven't seen him as weak and flat as I saw him on the Mur de Huy since the 2011 Tour de France, when Contador also was riding the TDF after riding the Giro.

As soon as Froome attacked and when the grade went way up, Contador realized he had no legs, and actually sat down, something he never does when he's flying. The excuses about the Mur de Huy being a short, steep climb, and that Alberto prefers long climbs, is baloney. He's a terrific sharp grade climber, I remember him toying with the field on the Monte Zoncolan in 2011. He's an incredible everywhere climber, arguably the best ever (I still love Ricco as my #1, I think Landa will prove to be amazing, Pantani is legendary).

You are comparing Huy to Zoncolan?

In that both have huge grade, on which Contador is terrific. Froome would never be able to drop Contador on the Zoncolan, or L'Angliru, or Mortirolo, or Huy, or any 100 meter stretch of the foregoing, were Contador on form and not Giro-exhausted.

He took the wrong line at his limit. He overlooked himself. Neither Nibali nor Quintana even attempted to follow Froome and Purito. Had Contador not he would likely have put time into both. Froome is flying right now, but we're Contador weaker than the others, he would not have been able to finish in the main group on a bum wheel today. He looked very strong up until that point.

I'm not saying he is going to beat Froome right now, who is peaking, but neither Nibali nor Quintana have shown to be stronger than AC thus far. I also think the Giro was a dumb idea and could cost him the Tour, and that he underestimates what another victory would do for his legacy. However even without Bjarn, DeJongh, Yates, and Julich are the best in the business and would know what Alberto is capable of. He's still 2nd of the big four with over a minute on Nibali and Nairo. He's in better shape than 2013, when he couldn't win a race if he had been the only one lining up.

Thanks for your comments, perico, and I hope you're right that Contador is in better shape than 2013, but I'd bet big Euros that he's cooked and will fade badly in the coming weeks. His Giro will cost him the Tour, as it did in 2011, but would you rather he went for the Giro/Vuelta double, against weaker fields at slower paces, netting him 2 more Grand Tour victories (my recommendation from last year), or skip the Giro and Vuelta, and just do the Tour vs. Froome/Nibali/Quintana/Bardet/Pinot/Valverde, at top peleton speed??? I'm big on Grand Tour victories, more so than just TDF victories, or especially TDF 2nd place finishes.

 

[Jspear]

Re:

Lets face it, this is 2011 all over again, only a miracle could get Contador on the podium, talking about him winning it is ludicrous.

Well at this point in the 2011 Tour he was already doing worse than he is now.

 

[cantpedal]

Re: Re:

I remind you that he broke his leg on a wet descent

On a straight road. It had nothing to do with his descending skills. Nevertheless, skilled descenders and bikehandlers can still crash, due to bad luck or to the occasional human error on their part. Doesn't make them any less skilled.

i know that Hrotha, just don't get the double standards in bike handling between Alberto and Froome

Well said!

 

[cantpedal]

Re: Re:

I may get depressed if I continue reading this thread. C'mon guys

So here I am to save the day . Contador is struggling, yes, but still very much in it. And after the cobbles, he fares much better than most predicted in the GC picture: he has a gap on Quintana (expected) and on Nibali (really not expected). Let alone the usual troublemakers, i.e. Valverde. Froome is the issue. The course will take its toll sooner or later. Who will be fresher week 3?

AC he'll be resting up for stage wins by then

 

[The_Cheech]

Re: Re:

In that both have huge grade, on which Contador is terrific. Froome would never be able to drop Contador on the Zoncolan, or L'Angliru, or Mortirolo, or Huy, or any 100 meter stretch of the foregoing, were Contador on form and not Giro-exhausted.

They Huy is way shorter than the Zoncolan. The Huy was the first uphill finish in this year's TdF and everyone knows all cyclists go nuts on the first uphill finish.

I do agree with you that he is showing signs of fatigue though.

 

[Jelantik]

If you read his comment below, think of it. He just finished Giro. Probably gone deeper that he expected. Spend his month recovering with light training. Not until at least a week before tour, he finally didn't feel his leg hurt anymore. Went to Route du Sud, Quintana didn't push him to the limit. Comes to TDF, first 3 days he has to immediately spend intense effort. ITT, cross wind, steep climb Mur and pave. The first 4 stages, up to cobble was really stressful, energy zapping and fast pace. (even just thinking of it). So, don't you think, it's possible that he probably still needs to find his rhythm and settle in. Compare to other Giro GC contenders Porte, Konig, Uran, Hesjedal who were in the Giro, he is in much better shape. Having a lead of 1+ from the other two and lost only 36 seconds from Froome and while riding 25km with brake rubbing his wheel, he still could keep up w/ froome & nibali, in hindsight, he isn't that bad at all. Not perfect, but 3 weeks is a long time.

To me So far, Contador doesn't look as relax as he was in the Giro. But, now that cobble is passed w/o him loosing any more time, I think he will settle in and will improve (I don't know just the feeling). So I still hold a hope for Monday. And yes at the moment, Froome is at his peak. He is superb so far at all front. Nibali, after the cobble, I thought... o, ow.. now,he really needs to show his climbing leg. We finally see how his climbing legs fare with the rest fab 4 (beside TTT and descent- another chance to steal time). Quintana seems to fly a little bit under the radar.

“Yesterday I felt comfortable, but on the Mur I didn’t have an answer ready. It’s hard to explain,” Contador said. "On the adoquines, the cobbles, I was back where I’m supposed to be so I’m happy with the result. I’m pleased with how the day unfolded. There weren’t any problems, crashes. There were some small mechanical things but nothing serious."

 

[cellardoor]

It's pretty clear that the person trying to maintain a high GC position is Kreuziger, not Majka. Majka will be saving himself and trying to peak for week 3 like last year. If Majka is injured then that is a major blow, but I haven't seen that confirmed anywhere else.

Whilst Contador has one of the best "kicks" in the business on the steep stuff, it has generally only been effective after tiring out the others with a lot of climbing and/or with others having trepidation about the amount of climbing left to do. There may be isolated incidents where he's done well on uphill sprint type finishes (Giro this year for example), but they're far out-numbered by the times he's been just "ok" or even bad. I'm pretty confident he would have finished in the Nibali group if he'd ridden his own pace and not gone into the red and that would have put quite a different complexion on it.

Contador isn't looking great at present, few are going to seriously argue with that, but there's no need to make it worse by trying to imply he usually wins Mur de Huy type finishes.

As for yesterday, kind of have neutral feelings really. Glad it's done and dusted and he got through it unscathed, but I can't really say he was that impressive when every outside contender for the top 20 and their mother finished in the first group.

It's been an incredibly hard start to the race for a climber...he's got through it...and hopefully the form will start getting better and the territory will start being more his own.

 

[Flamin]

Btw Flo, in the other thread, you meant his team mates overcooked that last corner where they turned left onto the final secteur, right? Because Contador was already on his own, almost in last position before that corner, so it had little to do with it..

 

[Cimber]

In my opinion he did great. Better than expected, especially considered he rode the last 25 km with a damaged wheel (same as Froome, who also did better than I had expected).

But as Fuglsang and Nibali said, the head wind and good weather made it hard to do a difference. Would have been nice with rain and cross wind (we get that today, but no cobbles)

 

[bajbar]

For Contador, the good thing is, that the first MTF comes after the rest day. He is usually very good on the day after the rest day. On the 11th day of the Tour he should be reaching some sort of form. If last year is anything to go by, Majka was weak in the first week, but after the rest day he was flying. Now there are three days that he should use to build up race rhythm. In the TTT he should look at gaining time on everyone else. Tinkoff seems super strong and I think they should do an excellent TTT. Froome will go all in on Pierre-Saint-Martin and we can only pray that Contador would be able to hold on, or at least minimize the damage. But I have a feeling that he will either stay with Froome, or blow up trying.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Re:

I may get depressed if I continue reading this thread. C'mon guys

From http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/no-...espite-damaging-rim-on-tour-de-france-cobbles Alberto says

“I have to thank my teammates," he said. "They were extraordinary. They worked hard. They’ve done everything to help me. Peter delivered an incredible battle. He fought for the victory but sacrificed his chances for me.”

Great team spirit in the TfSx camp
Plus:

Hombre, there’s still a long way to go. There’s a thousand things that can happen in so many ways. This Tour is about being consistent, always riding near the front. After the team time trial we reach the Pyrenees. Until then I have to try and recover to tackle those with optimism

 

[ILovecycling]

Today ATTTACK!

Cmon Saxo!

 

[Electress]

Re: Re:

I may get depressed if I continue reading this thread. C'mon guys

From http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/no-...espite-damaging-rim-on-tour-de-france-cobbles Alberto says

“I have to thank my teammates," he said. "They were extraordinary. They worked hard. They’ve done everything to help me. Peter delivered an incredible battle. He fought for the victory but sacrificed his chances for me.”

Great team spirit in the TfSx camp
Plus:

Hombre, there’s still a long way to go. There’s a thousand things that can happen in so many ways. This Tour is about being consistent, always riding near the front. After the team time trial we reach the Pyrenees. Until then I have to try and recover to tackle those with optimism

They do seem pretty good at this - I really worried about having two huge names and conflicting objectives. But my impression of Sagan has gone up leaps and bounds - in fact, he seems a lot happier than he did last year, when he was always straining. Maybe it's nice to have the pressure not 100% on him? Nice to see him having some fun again, too. But we'll see - lot can happen, hombres, as AC says.

They're be a lot of tired legs today, but it could be an interesting stage, even given the last 20 k or so of headwind. Movistar seem weakest team-wise to me. Nairo did a great job yesterday, but it didn't strike me there was a lot of teamwork. Piti seems a bit under-par, and frankly, I can't help wondering if he's already thinking about what might come available to him if the gaps get any bigger.

 

[hrotha]

Wait - did CN seriously leave "bueno" and "hombre" untranslated, like they're some sort of elusive cultural concept unique to the Spanish language or something?

That's like an annoying manga scanlator sticking "baka", "senpai" and "onii-chan" on every speech bubble.

 

[Electress]

Re:

Wait - did CN seriously leave "bueno" and "hombre" untranslated, like they're some sort of elusive cultural concept unique to the Spanish language or something?

I do believe they did. It makes Alberto sound like a Mexican cowboy in a bad Spaghetti western, warning someone not to get cocky.

 

[HelloDolly]

Gosh I hope Contador doesn't read this thread because if he did he's pack his bags and go home such is the negativity on his prospects. ( I know some pros read CN)

We are not even half way through the first week and so many so called supporters have decided he is out of the running. With supporters like that who needs enemies. !!

Maybe SKy & Froome are too strong but maybe TCS & Contador will find a way.

If you are going to support someone you support them all the way through thick an thin

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

I may get depressed if I continue reading this thread. C'mon guys

From http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/no-...espite-damaging-rim-on-tour-de-france-cobbles Alberto says

“I have to thank my teammates," he said. "They were extraordinary. They worked hard. They’ve done everything to help me. Peter delivered an incredible battle. He fought for the victory but sacrificed his chances for me.”

Great team spirit in the TfSx camp
Plus:

Hombre, there’s still a long way to go. There’s a thousand things that can happen in so many ways. This Tour is about being consistent, always riding near the front. After the team time trial we reach the Pyrenees. Until then I have to try and recover to tackle those with optimism

They do seem pretty good at this - I really worried about having two huge names and conflicting objectives. But my impression of Sagan has gone up leaps and bounds - in fact, he seems a lot happier than he did last year, when he was always straining. Maybe it's nice to have the pressure not 100% on him? Nice to see him having some fun again, too. But we'll see - lot can happen, hombres, as AC says.

Yes I'm actually starting to warm up a bit to Sagan. Ever since the groping he's been on my Dislike list, but his actions to date at le Tour are removing the spoiled child image. He has been a stalwart for the team and seems to enjoy being there. He is So Strong and has given up multiple chances for personal glory freely; the perfect teammate!

 

[Supimilian]

The whole "Pinchgate" was just a typical example of a young male athlete getting a little too comfy in the spotlight.
You get these kind of dumb impulses at that age. Doesn't say too much about the fundamental character.
Looks like the team is a good fit after all. I have a hard time imagining Sagan getting any better results here with another team (at this point of the tour at least), and he gets a lot of shine off his captains quest for glory as well.

 

[No_Balls]

Re:

Not the first time CN-news leaves "bueno" untranslated (probably because it is somewhat sterotypical for Alberto).

Gosh I hope Contador doesn't read this thread because if he did he's pack his bags and go home such is the negativity on his prospects. ( I know some pros read CN)

We are not even half way through the first week and so many so called supporters have decided he is out of the running. With supporters like that who needs enemies. !!

Maybe SKy & Froome are too strong but maybe TCS & Contador will find a way.

If you are going to support someone you support them all the way through thick an thin

Couldnt you point out those in question instead of having just another lecture against your nemesis in life: AC-fans?

First of all: there is no "you" here. There only is a couple of individuals who have in common that "we" support Alberto. In between comes a layer of differences (attitudes, mindset, experiences) that creates differences and gets vocal here.

Second of all: while i may agree with what you are saying the problem is that this is just another grabbed opportunity from you to have a dig at AC-fans. When i called you out for this obsession during the Giro, the problem for you back then was the supposed "collective attitude from AC-fans" which demanded nothing but total praise for Contador, and a collective hate towards other riders. Now we are to believe your problem suddenly is that "we" obviously dont support him enough, or supports him right?

There is by the way no guarantee at all that every account who got created this June or July writing "he is finished" in this thread are supporters but of course this didnt stop you from another pointless rant. And as far as the more experienced veterans goes i dare to say these are no less supporters of AC when pointing out some mild concerns during the Tour so far.

 

[ad9898]

It's good to have all this discussion but the fundamental issue that no one knows is... is Alberto fatigued from the Giro and therefore his form is going down or is his rest and recuperation build up after the Giro (which was obviously needed) which means he needs time to find his racing legs.

My feeling is he's likely to get stronger over the coming weeks, either matching Froome's form or surpassing it in the last week. The second week will be crucial has I feel he might be coming really good but could still lose seconds here and there. I think if he approaches the third week with less than a minute deficit on the other favourites including Froome then he can win this tour.

Of course only he knows deep down if he's going to get weaker or stronger.

 

[Supimilian]

Re:

It's good to have all this discussion but the fundamental issue that no one knows is... is Alberto fatigued from the Giro and therefore his form is going down or is his rest and recuperation build up after the Giro (which was obviously needed) which means he needs time to find his racing legs.

My feeling is he's likely to get stronger over the coming weeks, either matching Froome's form or surpassing it in the last week. The second week will be crucial has I feel he might be coming really good but could still lose seconds here and there. I think if he approaches the third week with less than a minute deficit on the other favourites including Froome then he can win this tour.

Of course only he knows deep down if he's going to get weaker or stronger.

That's not usually how it goes. Especially when keeping in mind how hard this Giro was and that he struggled at the end of it. It's usually more about keeping it all going in between and then not fading too much. But we'll see.
I think we will see Nibali, Quintana and Purito being the strongest at the later mountain stages, so Froome and Contador having some time on them should make for excellent racing.

 

[ice&fire]

Re:

Wait - did CN seriously leave "bueno" and "hombre" untranslated, like they're some sort of elusive cultural concept unique to the Spanish language or something?

That's like an annoying manga scanlator sticking "baka", "senpai" and "onii-chan" on every speech bubble.

You missed the "on the adoquines"

 

[ad9898]

Re: Re:

It's good to have all this discussion but the fundamental issue that no one knows is... is Alberto fatigued from the Giro and therefore his form is going down or is his rest and recuperation build up after the Giro (which was obviously needed) which means he needs time to find his racing legs.

My feeling is he's likely to get stronger over the coming weeks, either matching Froome's form or surpassing it in the last week. The second week will be crucial has I feel he might be coming really good but could still lose seconds here and there. I think if he approaches the third week with less than a minute deficit on the other favourites including Froome then he can win this tour.

Of course only he knows deep down if he's going to get weaker or stronger.

That's not usually how it goes. Especially when keeping in mind how hard this Giro was and that he struggled at the end of it. It's usually more about keeping it all going in between and then not fading too much. But we'll see.
I think we will see Nibali, Quintana and Purito being the strongest at the later mountain stages, so Froome and Contador having some time on them should make for excellent racing.

It's a fair point but Alberto has always said he's seen the Giro/Tour as one race rather than two separate ones so his build up may have him peaking later in the race. Of course it's speculation and I acknowledge that because of Landa he had to dig a little deeper at the Giro than I'm sure he wanted.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

It's good to have all this discussion but the fundamental issue that no one knows is... is Alberto fatigued from the Giro and therefore his form is going down or is his rest and recuperation build up after the Giro (which was obviously needed) which means he needs time to find his racing legs.

My feeling is he's likely to get stronger over the coming weeks, either matching Froome's form or surpassing it in the last week. The second week will be crucial has I feel he might be coming really good but could still lose seconds here and there. I think if he approaches the third week with less than a minute deficit on the other favourites including Froome then he can win this tour.

Of course only he knows deep down if he's going to get weaker or stronger.

That's not usually how it goes. Especially when keeping in mind how hard this Giro was and that he struggled at the end of it. It's usually more about keeping it all going in between and then not fading too much. But we'll see.
I think we will see Nibali, Quintana and Purito being the strongest at the later mountain stages, so Froome and Contador having some time on them should make for excellent racing.

It's a fair point but Alberto has always said he's seen the Giro/Tour as one race rather than two separate ones so his build up may have him peaking later in the race. Of course it's speculation and I acknowledge that because of Landa he had to dig a little deeper at the Giro than I'm sure he wanted.

IMO he will be similar all the race, as I said in the Giro and it was that way.
He could fade a little in the longer stages if there is battle from far, as is normal in him, but in the short stages of the last week he will be at a similar level he will show in la Pierre.

He could try some desperate attack from far at the end if he see he has no options to win other way. He has nothing to lose, although I consider than Giro-podium Tour is meritable if he has the strengh...To risk a possible podium I dont know if is a good idea, but it is true, likely will be the only way he will have to win the race, and if he consider just victory is a good result as a cycling fan I will be happy... He has team to do tactics, and possible allies.

But you need not just team, inteligence, allies and good luck to a desperate/epic attack, you need legs as well, so we will see.