Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[ILovecycling]

Re:

This discussion

Yea,ridiculous

 

[Valv.Piti]

Whats ridiculous is

a) you can't have a proper discussion without blurry verbally assaulting you for disagreeing
b) being called a contador-hater because you don't agree with outrageous claims

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Ok. When has Contador, post ban, shown he was the best climber? On the contrary, when has Froome shown he was the best climber and what have Nairo Quintana done in order for the bookmakers' consensus that he is the 2nd biggest favourite, ahead of Contador?

The best climber in 2014 was Contador. In 2015 he went for the double, didn't really go for a major peak at the Giro thinking about the Tour as well which didn't pay off at the end. Turns out we didn't see the best Contador at any moment in 2015.

Now for the thousandth time, it's different. Keep being ignorant.

So, Contador was straight up bad in 2013, really good in 2014 and mediocre for his standards in 2015. Meanwhile, Froome was worldbeating in 2013 and 2015 and was just as good as Contador in 2014, at least in Dauphine. Contador obviously won the Vuelta ahead of Froome, but those were different circumstances.

Oh the circumstances were not different maybe in the Tour 15', sure thing

As for 2013, an off season was bound to happen at some point, which happens to every rider in their career. He was dominating since 2007. Unfortunately Froome was at his peak when AC was having his worst season.

It's like putting Froome 09' vs Contador 09' lol. Do we agree that Froome's 09' shape is not indicative of his level now? Well, same concept applies to Contador, his 2013 form is not indicative of his real talent as a rider.

 

[BlurryVII]

Actually, the circumstances were never as equal as they were in the Vuelta 2014 between AC and CF, that's the funniest thing.

 

[Ramon Koran]

Re: Re:

Quintana has the best recovery? Excuse me, where you took that from? lol

Absolutely nothing indicates he has a better recovery than Contador.

Contador recovery is not great post ban, tdf 2013, 2015, giro 2015. I would put him on par with frooome in that domain

hmm, yeah, what about his 2014 and 2016 unreal spring consistency which has to do with recovery, what about the Vuelta 2014 and Vuelta 2012 as well (cracked on Bola del mundo, but he had close to no racing prior to that Vuelta, and recovering from the Fuente De strike was understandably hard and I don't think CF and NQ do that kind of far out attacks now do they? ) .

2014 vuelta difficult to use because come back injury, froome as well got stronger during that race. Spring races not the same cause gaps to recover unlike gts, vuelta 2012 again difficult to use as Alberto only ist coming back into competitive and gaining form.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

Oh and he crashed at the Giro 2015, don't forget.

Yes, maybe that afected him one day he wanted to attack and he didnt, no more.

Porte and Uran crashed in more serious way, and Uran get the Giro after to be sick. Contador was lucky, in other circusntances that Giro would have been more difficult

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Quintana has the best recovery? Excuse me, where you took that from? lol

Absolutely nothing indicates he has a better recovery than Contador.

Contador recovery is not great post ban, tdf 2013, 2015, giro 2015. I would put him on par with frooome in that domain

hmm, yeah, what about his 2014 and 2016 unreal spring consistency which has to do with recovery, what about the Vuelta 2014 and Vuelta 2012 as well (cracked on Bola del mundo, but he had close to no racing prior to that Vuelta, and recovering from the Fuente De strike was understandably hard and I don't think CF and NQ do that kind of far out attacks now do they? ) .

2014 vuelta difficult to use because come back injury, froome as well got stronger during that race. Spring races not the same cause gaps to recover unlike gts, vuelta 2012 again difficult to use as Alberto only ist coming back into competitive and gaining form.

Yeah, nothing's good for use except the Tour, I got that since a long time now. That's why you're still even arguing. Contador winning the Tour would silence all the Pro Tour biased arguments. Holy damn.

 

[Ramon Koran]

Re: Re:

Quintana has the best recovery? Excuse me, where you took that from? lol

Absolutely nothing indicates he has a better recovery than Contador.

Contador recovery is not great post ban, tdf 2013, 2015, giro 2015. I would put him on par with frooome in that domain

hmm, yeah, what about his 2014 and 2016 unreal spring consistency which has to do with recovery, what about the Vuelta 2014 and Vuelta 2012 as well (cracked on Bola del mundo, but he had close to no racing prior to that Vuelta, and recovering from the Fuente De strike was understandably hard and I don't think CF and NQ do that kind of far out attacks now do they? ) .

2014 vuelta difficult to use because come back injury, froome as well got stronger during that race. Spring races not the same cause gaps to recover unlike gts, vuelta 2012 again difficult to use as Alberto only ist coming back into competitive and gaining form.

Yeah, nothing's good for use except the Tour, I got that since a long time now. That's why you're still even arguing. Contador winning the Tour would silence all the Pro Tour bias arguments. Holy damn.

I think only good races that rider has peaked for with correct preparation for Alberto that leaves tdf 2013, 2015 and giro 2015 in all these races he has not good recovery remains to be confirmed but I'm not sure about how good it rally is. If he wins the tour fair enough I will be first to admit that my doubts were wrong.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Ok. When has Contador, post ban, shown he was the best climber? On the contrary, when has Froome shown he was the best climber and what have Nairo Quintana done in order for the bookmakers' consensus that he is the 2nd biggest favourite, ahead of Contador?

The best climber in 2014 was Contador. In 2015 he went for the double, didn't really go for a major peak at the Giro thinking about the Tour as well which didn't pay off at the end. Turns out we didn't see the best Contador at any moment in 2015.

Now for the thousandth time, it's different. Keep being ignorant.

So, Contador was straight up bad in 2013, really good in 2014 and mediocre for his standards in 2015. Meanwhile, Froome was worldbeating in 2013 and 2015 and was just as good as Contador in 2014, at least in Dauphine. Contador obviously won the Vuelta ahead of Froome, but those were different circumstances.

Oh the circumstances were not different maybe in the Tour 15', sure thing

As for 2013, an off season was bound to happen at some point, which happens to every rider in their career. He was dominating since 2007. Unfortunately Froome was at his peak when AC was having his worst season.

It's like putting Froome 09' vs Contador 09' lol. Do we agree that Froome's 09' shape is not indicative of his level now? Well, same concept applies to Contador, his 2013 form is not indicative of his real talent as a rider.

Do I need to state it more times: I don't hold Contador accountable for his Tour in 2015. We can't use it, I am the first to say that.

All I say is we won't know how close Contador and Froome was too 100%. Its all a guessing game and when you say we can't use 2013 and 2015, which we obviously can't, its important to remember that Vuelta '14 is off relatively low value when we won't to compare them at 100% as well, its about being fair. Whats certain tho is that Froome was quite the different rider in the first couple of weeks to what he has been in 2013 and 2015 in the Tour at his peak which obviously suggests he was a quite long way from his best.

 

[Red Rick]

I bumped the Froome vs Contador thread a few weeks ago, now you gents go and find it. This thread is for weight, and transfer speculation only until the Dauphine starts

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

All I say is we won't know how close Contador and Froome was too 100%. Its all a guessing game and when you say we can't use 2013 and 2015, which we obviously can't, its important to remember that Vuelta '14 is off relatively low value when we won't to compare them at 100% as well, its about being fair. Whats certain tho is that Froome was quite the different rider in the first couple of weeks to what he has been in 2013 and 2015 in the Tour at his peak which obviously suggests he was a quite long way from his best.

In the last week of the Vuelta 2014, Froome was miles better than he was in 3rd week of the Tour 13' and 15'.

His numbers on Farrapona are actually similar to what he did on PSM, not surprising when you see the gaps he put on Rodriguez, Aru and Valverde.

But oh wait, it's the Vuelta, it's worth nothing next to the Tour
And he sure as hell looked much more glorious on PSM when he didn't have Contador on his tale lol. Bias FTW!

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

Actually, the circumstances were never as equal as they were in the Vuelta 2014 between AC and CF, that's the funniest thing.

Well they both weren't able to prepare perfectly for the race, while in 2013 they both peaked for the tour but Contador was just extremely bad. Seriously you can't say Contador is better than Froome only because of the vuelta. Arguing doesnt work like that.
And no I don't say we should use the tour 2013 as evidence, I think there just is no real evidence (best evidence is maybe the dauphine 2014 where they seemed to be equal) so lets just wait for the tour this year to see how Nairo beats both.

 

[Ramon Koran]

Re: Re:

All I say is we won't know how close Contador and Froome was too 100%. Its all a guessing game and when you say we can't use 2013 and 2015, which we obviously can't, its important to remember that Vuelta '14 is off relatively low value when we won't to compare them at 100% as well, its about being fair. Whats certain tho is that Froome was quite the different rider in the first couple of weeks to what he has been in 2013 and 2015 in the Tour at his peak which obviously suggests he was a quite long way from his best.

In the last week of the Vuelta 2014, Froome was miles better than he was in 3rd week of the Tour 13' and 15'.

His numbers on Farrapona are actually similar to what he did on PSM, not surprising when you see the gaps he put on Rodriguez, Aru and Valverde.

But oh wait, it's the Vuelta, it's worth nothing next to the Tour
And he sure as hell looked much more glorious on PSM when he didn't have Contador on his tale lol. Bias FTW!

No way can you compare psm and farrapona, psm is flatter for starters what's more let's not forget that had froome had Porte with him he probably could have tired Alberto enough to enable froome to drop him with an attack. As it is Alberto wheelsucked froome and then attacked totally different.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Actually, the circumstances were never as equal as they were in the Vuelta 2014 between AC and CF, that's the funniest thing.

Well they both weren't able to prepare perfectly for the race, while in 2013 they both peaked for the tour but Contador was just extremely bad. Seriously you can't say Contador is better than Froome only because of the vuelta. Arguing doesnt work like that.
And no I don't say we should use the tour 2013 as evidence, I think there just is no real evidence (best evidence is maybe the dauphine 2014 where they seemed to be equal) so lets just wait for the tour this year to see how Nairo beats both.

My man, Giggs. Perfectly how I feel about the whole discussion.

 

[BlurryVII]

Guys are so obsessed by what happens at the Tour, that they'd go as far as saying Nibali might've been a better climber than AC in 2014 even if AC just crashed after dropping him on Gerardmer without even trying and literally dominated the rest of that season uphill.

But nope, Nibali might've been better because he beat Pinot and Bardet and Péraud and he did it at THE TOUR

Says it all really. Wonder what you'll be left with if AC wins the Tour

 

[Valv.Piti]

Blurry, at no point do we undermine Contador like AC-fans regularly are doing with Froome and especially Quintana. I won't be surprised if he wins and I have never, ever stated that he doesn't have any chance of winning like you have done with Quintana, fx.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

Guys are so obsessed by what happens at the Tour, that they'd go as far as saying Nibali might've been a better climber than AC in 2014 even if AC just crashed after dropping him on Gerardmer without even trying and literally dominated the rest of that season uphill.

But nope, Nibali might've been better because he beat Pinot and Bardet and Péraud and he did it at THE TOUR

Says it all really. Wonder what you'll be left with if AC wins the Tour

The better question would be what you'll be left with if AC doesnt win the tour

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Guys are so obsessed by what happens at the Tour, that they'd go as far as saying Nibali might've been a better climber than AC in 2014 even if AC just crashed after dropping him on Gerardmer without even trying and literally dominated the rest of that season uphill.

But nope, Nibali might've been better because he beat Pinot and Bardet and Péraud and he did it at THE TOUR

Says it all really. Wonder what you'll be left with if AC wins the Tour

The better question would be what you'll be left with if AC doesnt win the tour

Unless Contador crashes, it obviously won't happen

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Guys are so obsessed by what happens at the Tour, that they'd go as far as saying Nibali might've been a better climber than AC in 2014 even if AC just crashed after dropping him on Gerardmer without even trying and literally dominated the rest of that season uphill.

But nope, Nibali might've been better because he beat Pinot and Bardet and Péraud and he did it at THE TOUR

Says it all really. Wonder what you'll be left with if AC wins the Tour

The better question would be what you'll be left with if AC doesnt win the tour

Depends on how, but then he's won in multiple times already. Try cheering for Andy Murray in Aussie Open finals

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I'm sure everyone read this when it came out, but it seems relevant. From here: http://cyclingtips.com/2014/10/vuelta-a-espana-climbing-speeds-how-should-we-interpret-the-data/

CyclingTips: How do they compare to Nibali in this year’s Tour de France plus Froome in last year’s Tour?

Ross Tucker: It’s difficult to separate them on the shorter climbs – in fact, if anything, Froome 2013 was at a slightly higher level than Contador in the 2014 Vuelta (with one exception). Nibali was slower on the 2014 Tour’s one shorter climb, but then he wasn’t really challenged to be faster. He was however better on the longer climbs, which is the big question mark.

Regarding this year’s Tour, Froome and Contador, as I’m sure you know, produced performances that were at least comparable to Nibali at the Tour, on the shorter climbs. This post by Mike P has the numbers:

So my overall assessment – Contador and Froome in the 2014 Vuelta were in the same kind of condition Froome had in the 2013 Tour de France, at least for the shorter climbs. We will never know how they’d have fared on the Tour’s longer climbs against Nibali.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

Guys are so obsessed by what happens at the Tour, that they'd go as far as saying Nibali might've been a better climber than AC in 2014 even if AC just crashed after dropping him on Gerardmer without even trying and literally dominated the rest of that season uphill.

But nope, Nibali might've been better because he beat Pinot and Bardet and Péraud and he did it at THE TOUR

Says it all really. Wonder what you'll be left with if AC wins the Tour

The better question would be what you'll be left with if AC doesnt win the tour

Depends on how, but then he's won in multiple times already. Try cheering for Andy Murray in Aussie Open finals

Sorry but I don't get what you mean

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Guys are so obsessed by what happens at the Tour, that they'd go as far as saying Nibali might've been a better climber than AC in 2014 even if AC just crashed after dropping him on Gerardmer without even trying and literally dominated the rest of that season uphill.

But nope, Nibali might've been better because he beat Pinot and Bardet and Péraud and he did it at THE TOUR

Says it all really. Wonder what you'll be left with if AC wins the Tour

The better question would be what you'll be left with if AC doesnt win the tour

Depends on how, but then he's won in multiple times already. Try cheering for Andy Murray in Aussie Open finals

Sorry but I don't get what you mean

I can handle the disappointment of my favourite not winning.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Actually, the circumstances were never as equal as they were in the Vuelta 2014 between AC and CF, that's the funniest thing.

2013 Tirreno?

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Actually, the circumstances were never as equal as they were in the Vuelta 2014 between AC and CF, that's the funniest thing.

2013 Tirreno?

2011 Castilla y Leon?

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

Guys are so obsessed by what happens at the Tour, that they'd go as far as saying Nibali might've been a better climber than AC in 2014 even if AC just crashed after dropping him on Gerardmer without even trying and literally dominated the rest of that season uphill.

But nope, Nibali might've been better because he beat Pinot and Bardet and Péraud and he did it at THE TOUR

Says it all really. Wonder what you'll be left with if AC wins the Tour

The better question would be what you'll be left with if AC doesnt win the tour

Unless Contador crashes, it obviously won't happen

Lets call spade a spade. If bertie doesnt win the tour hes clearly below par and all the big Guns peak exactly at the moment ac shows symptoms of weakness (incredible luck). You shouldnt be too prudent to grasp it from BlurryVII rhetorics