Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[HelloDolly]

So much anger in this post. I'm trying to figure out what your point is exactly?
Is this still about the fact he doesn't want to fight for a 3rd place and you think he should?
Why are we in denial? Or are you saying Contador is in denial?
As for Quintana and Froome ending up with a bigger palmares, we will see about that. When Contador was 27 he had 3 Tour wins and 5 GT wins. People thought he would easily break Merckx's record of 11 GTs and also possible Lance's 7 TDFs. See how differently things can go? I feel you don't quite understand how extremely hard it is to stay at the top level of stage racing for as long a time as Contador (10 seasons).

What anger ? I am not one bit angry..Seems to me anyone points out anything to a few of you that you donlt like and we are angry,bitter , nasty trolls

I haven,t a clue about Contador being in denial or not ...I am talking about posters on here who are crying about him and watching late night re runs if all is to be believed ... and having unending conversations about 2009 or 2014 or what he did on this mountain or how he is going to 'survive' now .....this is denial...I know as much about Contador's thinking as you do...but he is racing now not retired so maybe praise his top 5 placin in this Vuelta

Also I am well aware of Contador's acheivements and of his ban too...least we forget he cheated ...I prefer to think of him as a racer rather than some demi God.... And he has not been at the top 10 years ....He has had years out and he has not been at the top in recent years...Froome has
As for the future lets wait and see before we write any epitaph

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

I don't know why you say Contador's palmares was the same in 2011 as it is now as he's won 3 GTs since then. Even if you disregard the 2010 Tour and 2011 Giro he still won more races after 2011.

I know it is just an opinion but for me even 6 Tour wins doesn't beat 9 GTs. Winning every GT multiple times requires a way more diverse skillset than just winning the TDF over and over and over again and I have huge admiration for riders who respect more than just a select few races.
As for total number of GTs, I'm 100% sure Froome will never get to 9. As you say, don't underestimate that. It requires you to be at the top of your game for many, many years. I really don't see Froome manage that. He's at 3 now and he's 31. So he is no match for Alberto in terms of greatness.

You will never hear fans and commentators talk about Froome the way they talk about Contador now.

Disagree with the bold bits. Yes, winning every GT requires ability to handle a greater range of temperatures and conditions, along with slightly different types of terrain (eg climbers have much bigger chance at Vuelta than Tour). But at the end of the day, the Tour is the big one, and you only need one look at the podium finishers in each race in recent editions to realise that a Tour win is pretty much worth 2 Vueltas or 1.5 Giros.

And you won't hear a 3 time Tour winner being talked about in the same way as Contador. But once his career is over, IF it all goes well for Froome, he could end up with similar palmares to Contador, and honestly considering the money available and youth schemes that would be open to a young talented Spanish cyclist and a young talented Kenyan cyclist, I think Froome's achievements would be more impressive. That's a hypothetical of course, and it will be very difficult for Froome to actually get to similar palmares to Contador. But considering how late Froome bloomed, he possibly has another 3-5 more years at the top level, in which time he could certainly amass 7 GTs

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

What anger ? I am not one bit angry..Seems to me anyone points out anything to a few of you that you donlt like and we are angry,bitter , nasty trolls

Perhaps you should considering your tone then cause you sure came across angry.

I haven,t a clue about Contador being in denial or not ...I am talking about posters on here who are crying about him and watching late night re runs if all is to be believed ... and having unending conversations about 2009 or 2014 or what he did on this mountain or how he is going to 'survive' now .....this is denial...

No it's not denial. It's looking back to better times. Surely you can understand fans like for example the 2011 Giro or the 2009 Tour better than this race.
I am a big fan of Robbie Williams but not so much of his latest albums... I much prefer to listen to his late 1990s early 2000s albums instead of the newer ones, does that mean I am in denial about his music at this point in time? No.

I know as much about Contador's thinking as you do...but he is racing now not retired so maybe praise his top 5 placin in this Vuelta

Why in the name of everything that is holy should we praise his top-5? That makes no sense and I'm sure he would consider that highly offensive. Please just let us decide for ourselves what we will praise and what not: in this case, I will praise his fighting spirit and resilience, not his worthless top-5 - let's be honest it is worthless for someone who has won god knows how many stage races. That does not mean it is a terrible result, it is decent considering the circumstances, but not worthy of praise. Praise is reserved for excellence.

Also I am well aware of Contador's acheivements and of his ban too...least we forget he cheated ...I prefer to think of him as a racer rather than some demi God.... And he has not been at the top 10 years ....He has had years out and he has not been at the top in recent years...Froome has
As for the future lets wait and see before we write any epitaph

I consider the top a group of 5 or 6 riders who can contend with each other for the win in their area of racing and who will be the favorites when they start a race The sprinter's top is right now Cavendish, Kittel, Greipel, Bouhanni, Kristoff (I might have forgotten someone).
For stage racing it is Nibali, Quintana, Froome, Contador, Aru and possibly Valverde. Chaves could be added to this group in a year or two and Contador and Nibali might fall out of it in the near future. Contador has been competing for the win in Grand Tours and other stage races from 2007 to 2016. That is 10 seasons straight at the top.

 

[buchanan]

HelloDolly comes across as calm and reasonable - not angry. His tone is fine too. Not sure why Flo thinks you're angry.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Disagree with the bold bits. Yes, winning every GT requires ability to handle a greater range of temperatures and conditions, along with slightly different types of terrain (eg climbers have much bigger chance at Vuelta than Tour). But at the end of the day, the Tour is the big one, and you only need one look at the podium finishers in each race in recent editions to realise that a Tour win is pretty much worth 2 Vueltas or 1.5 Giros.

And you won't hear a 3 time Tour winner being talked about in the same way as Contador. But once his career is over, IF it all goes well for Froome, he could end up with similar palmares to Contador, and honestly considering the money available and youth schemes that would be open to a young talented Spanish cyclist and a young talented Kenyan cyclist, I think Froome's achievements would be more impressive. That's a hypothetical of course, and it will be very difficult for Froome to actually get to similar palmares to Contador. But considering how late Froome bloomed, he possibly has another 3-5 more years at the top level, in which time he could certainly amass 7 GTs

Froome will be remembered as the rider with the most incredible transformation into a GT contender of all time, with a horrific style on the bike and as a robot who only rides behind his teammates and based on his power meter and team instruction. Contador will be remembered as the rider who rose to fame at a young age and went through many difficulties but still managed to amass an impressive palmares and was loved by many despite some dark clouds above his career, mainly because of his distinctive style of racing and never-give-up attitude.

I think both of them didn't exactly follow a smooth road into professional cycling, you can't look at nationality and conclude one journey to the top was more impressive than the other. Yes Froome's route was definitely more non-traditional as he is from Kenya and grew up in South Africa and he had bilharzia but he is from a rich family (he and his brothers went to a private school which IIRC cost 30,000 dollar pp each year) while Contador is from a poor family, his father stopped working to care for his younger brother and his clothes and bike were hand-me-downs from his brother. He raced on an old, steel bike against others on the newest and coolest carbon bikes. Of course he also overcame a life-threatening illness very early on in his career.
I guess what that shows us is that no matter your background or nationality, if you have enough talent you will find your way to the top.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

HelloDolly comes across as calm and reasonable - not angry. His tone is fine too. Not sure why Flo thinks you're angry.

Unbelievable.

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

Disagree with the bold bits. Yes, winning every GT requires ability to handle a greater range of temperatures and conditions, along with slightly different types of terrain (eg climbers have much bigger chance at Vuelta than Tour). But at the end of the day, the Tour is the big one, and you only need one look at the podium finishers in each race in recent editions to realise that a Tour win is pretty much worth 2 Vueltas or 1.5 Giros.

And you won't hear a 3 time Tour winner being talked about in the same way as Contador. But once his career is over, IF it all goes well for Froome, he could end up with similar palmares to Contador, and honestly considering the money available and youth schemes that would be open to a young talented Spanish cyclist and a young talented Kenyan cyclist, I think Froome's achievements would be more impressive. That's a hypothetical of course, and it will be very difficult for Froome to actually get to similar palmares to Contador. But considering how late Froome bloomed, he possibly has another 3-5 more years at the top level, in which time he could certainly amass 7 GTs

Froome will be remembered as the rider with the most incredible transformation into a GT contender of all time, with a horrific style on the bike and as a robot who only rides behind his teammates and based on his power meter and team instruction.

.

He clearly doesn't only ride behind his teammates, he sits behind them when it is appropriate, and then attacks, uphill, cross winds & downhill, he can take time anywhere.
Secondly his team have been rubbish this vuelta and he is still in second, despite having just done the tour and rio.
The irony in all this is if he wasn't constantly handing Alberto's a$$ to him, you would probably love him, he is easily the most entertaining grand tour rider (nibs attacks when he has to, froome seems to do it just for $h!ts and giggles).

 

[portugal11]

People continue to not understand contador's mentallity, he doesn't care about podiums even when he isn't by far the strongest in the race (tour 2013). He could easily finish in the top 3 of le tour 2013, he could easily sit behind purito and beeing dropped with 4/5 km to go and minimize losses to purito BUT HE IS DIFFERENT, he prefers to attack with 50 km and attacking in descends because he doesn't care about podiums and he likes to entertain the fans. He probably won't make top3 because he will try to win la vuelta, not because valverde could be better. Lagos is a clear evidence of that, he prefered to risk everything when he was trying to follow quintana only to have a chance of winning la vuelta but he could easily forget quintana and sitting behind froome and accelerate in the last kilometer. He has so many fans because he is a winner, that's why spain loves contador and no one remembers valverde when contador is in the race. This the reason valverde is so jealous about contador and I and many fans like miburo or others never will like valverde because he rides for podiums and he is enjoying ride in this way. Contador will never enjoy riding for third or second places, he is a WINNER

 

[Rob_Roy]

Re: Re:

Disagree with the bold bits. Yes, winning every GT requires ability to handle a greater range of temperatures and conditions, along with slightly different types of terrain (eg climbers have much bigger chance at Vuelta than Tour). But at the end of the day, the Tour is the big one, and you only need one look at the podium finishers in each race in recent editions to realise that a Tour win is pretty much worth 2 Vueltas or 1.5 Giros.

And you won't hear a 3 time Tour winner being talked about in the same way as Contador. But once his career is over, IF it all goes well for Froome, he could end up with similar palmares to Contador, and honestly considering the money available and youth schemes that would be open to a young talented Spanish cyclist and a young talented Kenyan cyclist, I think Froome's achievements would be more impressive. That's a hypothetical of course, and it will be very difficult for Froome to actually get to similar palmares to Contador. But considering how late Froome bloomed, he possibly has another 3-5 more years at the top level, in which time he could certainly amass 7 GTs

Froome will be remembered as the rider with the most incredible transformation into a GT contender of all time, with a horrific style on the bike and as a robot who only rides behind his teammates and based on his power meter and team instruction.

.

He clearly doesn't only ride behind his teammates, he sits behind them when it is appropriate, and then attacks, uphill, cross winds & downhill, he can take time anywhere.
Secondly his team have been rubbish this vuelta and he is still in second, despite having just done the tour and rio.
The irony in all this is if he wasn't constantly handing Alberto's a$$ to him, you would probably love him, he is easily the most entertaining grand tour rider (nibs attacks when he has to, froome seems to do it just for $h!ts and giggles).

A Rubbish team? They sit at 2nd place,6th place and 15th place in the overall standings and they won the TTT? How is that rubbish?? Compare to Tinkoff,that team you can describe as rubbish..

 

[buchanan]

The huge irony is if Contador had done some of the things that Froome did in this year's Tour (winning a stage and taking the yellow jersey downhill; breaking the peloton in the crosswinds), she would be heaping praise on him saying stuff like he is a legend and the only man who can do that sort of thing, thinking out the box, etc.

Froome actually did it, but to Flo he remains a robot who can only ride behind teammates and according to team instructions and power meters.
I don't know how anyone takes her "analysis" of cycling seriously. LMAO

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

He clearly doesn't only ride behind his teammates, he sits behind them when it is appropriate, and then attacks, uphill, cross winds & downhill, he can take time anywhere.
Secondly his team have been rubbish this vuelta and he is still in second, despite having just done the tour and rio.

Of course he doesn't sit behind his teammates all the time. I was just stating how I think he will be remembered. Like it or not the way Sky race and the fans' opinions on the team will have a big influence on how Froome will be remembered.

The irony in all this is if he wasn't constantly handing Alberto's a$$ to him, you would probably love him,

What? He has no chance. I like riders with style and charisma.

He is easily the most entertaining grand tour rider (nibs attacks when he has to, froome seems to do it just for $h!ts and giggles).

Double what?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Flo is mental guys. Surely you've realized by now.

"a robot who only rides behind his teammates and based on his power meter and team instruction."

Yes like he did to win the stage in the Pyrenees, by attacking downhill. And attacking with Sagan a few days later in crosswinds to gap the peloton.

Flo, half of what you type here is utter nonsense.

The huge irony is if Contador had done some of the things that Froome did in this year's Tour (winning a stage and taking the yellow jersey downhill; breaking the peloton in the crosswinds), she would be heaping praise on him saying stuff like he is a legend and the only man who can do that sort of thing, thinking out the box, etc.

Froome actually did it, but to Flo he remains a robot who can only ride behind teammates and according to team instructions and power meters.
I don't know how anyone takes her "analysis" of cycling seriously. LMAO

Dude, I don't care. Anyone who dumps Alberto at the slightest hint of a decline is not worth my attention. Why do you think I unfollowed you on twitter years ago?

 

[dacooley]

the moral is quite simple. you can badmouth all the riders as mush as you want, but you can't do it with AC. irrationality as a cult off the charts.

 

[buchanan]

Re: Re:

Flo is mental guys. Surely you've realized by now.

"a robot who only rides behind his teammates and based on his power meter and team instruction."

Yes like he did to win the stage in the Pyrenees, by attacking downhill. And attacking with Sagan a few days later in crosswinds to gap the peloton.

Flo, half of what you type here is utter nonsense.

The huge irony is if Contador had done some of the things that Froome did in this year's Tour (winning a stage and taking the yellow jersey downhill; breaking the peloton in the crosswinds), she would be heaping praise on him saying stuff like he is a legend and the only man who can do that sort of thing, thinking out the box, etc.

Froome actually did it, but to Flo he remains a robot who can only ride behind teammates and according to team instructions and power meters.
I don't know how anyone takes her "analysis" of cycling seriously. LMAO

Dude, I don't care. Anyone who dumps Alberto at the slightest hint of a decline is not worth my attention. Why do you think I unfollowed you on twitter years ago?

Lol, you once followed me on Twitter?? I had no idea this account links to Twitter!

By the way, I never 'dumped' Alberto. I still root for him as much as ever. I'm just not as emotional about him as maybe you are. I still hope he wins and support him 100%. I just recognize he has a couple of rivals who are now stronger.

 

[Rob_Roy]

Re:

the moral is quite simple. you can badmouth all the riders as mush as you want, but you can't do it with AC. irrationality as a cult off the charts.

Well,people that finds joy in badmouthing a biker in a thread dedicated to that biker I pity.
I cant belive that their parents raised them that way,to find joy in teasing others,irritating others just to get a kick out of it. That could of course be the reason why I write posts once a year or so,I see no point in having experts (clever idiots) insult me to get their point proven,whatever they want to prove with insults....

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Lol, you once followed me on Twitter?? I had no idea this account links to Twitter!

By the way, I never 'dumped' Alberto. I still root for him as much as ever. I'm just not as emotional about him as maybe you are. I still hope he wins and support him 100%. I just recognize he has a couple of rivals who are now stronger.

I'm sorry, no offense, but you've only written negative things about him for years now. There's a difference between recognizing he is no longer the strongest and slagging him off at every available opportunity.
I would just like to a more positive outlook from self-proclaimed supporters.

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

Disagree with the bold bits. Yes, winning every GT requires ability to handle a greater range of temperatures and conditions, along with slightly different types of terrain (eg climbers have much bigger chance at Vuelta than Tour). But at the end of the day, the Tour is the big one, and you only need one look at the podium finishers in each race in recent editions to realise that a Tour win is pretty much worth 2 Vueltas or 1.5 Giros.

And you won't hear a 3 time Tour winner being talked about in the same way as Contador. But once his career is over, IF it all goes well for Froome, he could end up with similar palmares to Contador, and honestly considering the money available and youth schemes that would be open to a young talented Spanish cyclist and a young talented Kenyan cyclist, I think Froome's achievements would be more impressive. That's a hypothetical of course, and it will be very difficult for Froome to actually get to similar palmares to Contador. But considering how late Froome bloomed, he possibly has another 3-5 more years at the top level, in which time he could certainly amass 7 GTs

Froome will be remembered as the rider with the most incredible transformation into a GT contender of all time, with a horrific style on the bike and as a robot who only rides behind his teammates and based on his power meter and team instruction.

.

He clearly doesn't only ride behind his teammates, he sits behind them when it is appropriate, and then attacks, uphill, cross winds & downhill, he can take time anywhere.
Secondly his team have been rubbish this vuelta and he is still in second, despite having just done the tour and rio.
The irony in all this is if he wasn't constantly handing Alberto's a$$ to him, you would probably love him, he is easily the most entertaining grand tour rider (nibs attacks when he has to, froome seems to do it just for $h!ts and giggles).

A Rubbish team? They sit at 2nd place,6th place and 15th place in the overall standings and they won the TTT? How is that rubbish?? Compare to Tinkoff,that team you can describe as rubbish..

he has been sheltered for about 3km, at the base of the climb when he was dropped, konig has been as much use as a one legged man in an ar$e kicking competition to froome, PK has done a few weird, pointless attacks off the front that haven't scared anybody.
as if your colleagues overall placings have anything to do with how much they are helping you, poels was a godlike team mate in the tour, but according to your logic he can't be counted upon as he was miles behind in GC.

 

[Rob_Roy]

Re: Re:

Disagree with the bold bits. Yes, winning every GT requires ability to handle a greater range of temperatures and conditions, along with slightly different types of terrain (eg climbers have much bigger chance at Vuelta than Tour). But at the end of the day, the Tour is the big one, and you only need one look at the podium finishers in each race in recent editions to realise that a Tour win is pretty much worth 2 Vueltas or 1.5 Giros.

And you won't hear a 3 time Tour winner being talked about in the same way as Contador. But once his career is over, IF it all goes well for Froome, he could end up with similar palmares to Contador, and honestly considering the money available and youth schemes that would be open to a young talented Spanish cyclist and a young talented Kenyan cyclist, I think Froome's achievements would be more impressive. That's a hypothetical of course, and it will be very difficult for Froome to actually get to similar palmares to Contador. But considering how late Froome bloomed, he possibly has another 3-5 more years at the top level, in which time he could certainly amass 7 GTs

Froome will be remembered as the rider with the most incredible transformation into a GT contender of all time, with a horrific style on the bike and as a robot who only rides behind his teammates and based on his power meter and team instruction.

.

He clearly doesn't only ride behind his teammates, he sits behind them when it is appropriate, and then attacks, uphill, cross winds & downhill, he can take time anywhere.
Secondly his team have been rubbish this vuelta and he is still in second, despite having just done the tour and rio.
The irony in all this is if he wasn't constantly handing Alberto's a$$ to him, you would probably love him, he is easily the most entertaining grand tour rider (nibs attacks when he has to, froome seems to do it just for $h!ts and giggles).

A Rubbish team? They sit at 2nd place,6th place and 15th place in the overall standings and they won the TTT? How is that rubbish?? Compare to Tinkoff,that team you can describe as rubbish..

he has been sheltered for about 3km, at the base of the climb when he was dropped, konig has been as much use as a one legged man in an ar$e kicking competition to froome, PK has done a few weird, pointless attacks off the front that haven't scared anybody.
as if your colleagues overall placings have anything to do with how much they are helping you, poels was a godlike team mate in the tour, but according to your logic he can't be counted upon as he was miles behind in GC.

Sorry,I wasnt trying to prove a point or so,if you got upset I apologize.I just found your post fun..

Team Sky did after all win the TTT,according to me a rubbish team wouldnt have done that.That is my Logic.What is your logic? That the worst team always win TTT stages?

 

[dacooley]

Re:

The huge irony is if Contador had done some of the things that Froome did in this year's Tour (winning a stage and taking the yellow jersey downhill; breaking the peloton in the crosswinds), she would be heaping praise on him saying stuff like he is a legend and the only man who can do that sort of thing, thinking out the box, etc.

Froome actually did it, but to Flo he remains a robot who can only ride behind teammates and according to team instructions and power meters.
I don't know how anyone takes her "analysis" of cycling seriously. LMAO

This. Fanboys worship an Idol's uniqueness as they feel themselves an integral part this exceptionality. Granted had bertie won the luchon stage by distancing the other big riders there would have been lots of pride and crazy extra hype. So riders are adored and despised for exactly the same way of racing...

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

The huge irony is if Contador had done some of the things that Froome did in this year's Tour (winning a stage and taking the yellow jersey downhill; breaking the peloton in the crosswinds), she would be heaping praise on him saying stuff like he is a legend and the only man who can do that sort of thing, thinking out the box, etc.

Froome actually did it, but to Flo he remains a robot who can only ride behind teammates and according to team instructions and power meters.
I don't know how anyone takes her "analysis" of cycling seriously. LMAO

This. Fanboys worship an Idol's uniqueness as they feel themselves an integral part this exceptionality. Granted had bertie won the luchon stage by distancing the other big riders there would have been lots of pride and crazy extra hype. So riders are adored and despised for exactly the same way of racing...

Come on, don't be ridiculous, this has already been established. Winning stages is beneath Contador. Only lesser riders actually feel the need to challenge for stages.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Come on, don't be ridiculous, this has already been established. Winning stages is beneath Contador. Only lesser riders actually feel the need to challenge for stages.

he tried to win a stage just a few days ago

 

[Red Rick]

Very useful discussion in the last 1.5 page, apart from the part that it's not. If you have to feel the need to discuss posters, fanbases, or something else, I would kindly encourage you to take it somewhere else

 

[Jolene]

For the record, I feel that HelloDolly has come across as reasonable and not angry. *shrugs shoulders* And also for the record Contador has still had a good year. Okay, it's not like in the heights of his greatness, but look at how many riders have had an off season this year (it's just been one of those years). Enjoy the man whilst he's still riding, he's still exciting to watch!

 

[Poursuivant]

I think Contador knows he is not the strongest here, so I found his quotes interesting about why they chased on Pena Cabarga, basically saying he wants to make it a tough race to tire Froome and Quintana, because they have Tour in their legs. In other words so he can ambush them later in week. I agree with the posters talking about Contador not wanting a podium: he is only ever interested in one place, first, that won't change, what is a Vuelta podium, realistically going to add to a legacy like his? However, today's cruise will be like another rest day for them, and this is where he probably laments his lack of good team to make every stage a killer.

Anyway, he will definitely attack before Aubisque tomorrow, it'll be interesting if he can drop a big boy, or even someone like Fernandez because it may force Valverde to work earlier than they want to. The three climbs before Aubisque are really, really tough, but, barring crashes, I just don't think he has the legs in him to win it outright this year.

I think the talk about him needing to retire is premature though. He won a Grand Tour last season remember.

 

[Miburo]

Today the aubisque, i still believe in this vuelta. Do some magic, contador