Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Red Rick]

My guess is Mollema will help Contador as long as he's in it with a chance to win. If Contador gets dropped everywhere, Mollema will probably allowed to ride for himself, and I think that's totally fair.

 

[Miburo]

Fleur knows again what's best for Alberto

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Re: Re:

Mollema more or less confirmed Berto will start his season in Argentina and Abu Dhabi. Meh...

"Mollema and Contador will hit some of the early season races together, debuting in Argentina and then at Abu Dhabi and split the European stage race calendar ahead of the grand tours."
Read more at http://www.velonews.com/2016/12/news/mollema-race-giro-support-contador-tour_426165#BMqut2iBHMOguYh1.99

It's a big deal though that Mollema will be a domestique rather than a second protected rider at the Tour. If Mollema is even close to his 2016 level, Sky don't automatically have the strongest lieutenant in the race for a change.

A 2016 Majka-like performance (or worse) is much more likely, seeing as Mollema will be peaking for the Giro.

 

[jens_attacks]

Mollema will be crrap in le tour, in fact i believe that he will skip it and do la vuelta.

 

[jens_attacks]

If anyone believes that mollema finishes top 10 in giro and in july he will be with the best 20 riders uphill, you are out of your mind

It only means that trek doesn't believe in alberto much. But we all know that jesusito is enough to take down the sky train!

 

[Alexandre B.]

You're smoking too much Floyd weed, jens.

 

[trevim]

Re: Re:

Mollema more or less confirmed Berto will start his season in Argentina and Abu Dhabi. Meh...

"Mollema and Contador will hit some of the early season races together, debuting in Argentina and then at Abu Dhabi and split the European stage race calendar ahead of the grand tours."
Read more at http://www.velonews.com/2016/12/news/mollema-race-giro-support-contador-tour_426165#BMqut2iBHMOguYh1.99

It's a big deal though that Mollema will be a domestique rather than a second protected rider at the Tour. If Mollema is even close to his 2016 level, Sky don't automatically have the strongest lieutenant in the race for a change.

Not really, I don't remember Mollema climbing better than Poels in the Tour this year.

 

[Miburo]

Alberto winning the tour is done, I'm stepping out of the genjutsu. I recommend all of you to do the same, it's not worth the pain, trust me

 

[Red Rick]

Froome's peak climbing didn't impress me last year, and Contador didn't ride a GT on a legit peak. There's a few other small reason I think he still has a fighting chance.

The train partially depends on who Sky is sending to the Giro. I hope they send Poels and Landa to the Giro. All in all, I think Quintana is a bigger problem than Froome for Contador.

Not that I'll be watching though, but that has other reasons

 

[jens_attacks]

Re: Re:

Mollema more or less confirmed Berto will start his season in Argentina and Abu Dhabi. Meh...

"Mollema and Contador will hit some of the early season races together, debuting in Argentina and then at Abu Dhabi and split the European stage race calendar ahead of the grand tours."
Read more at http://www.velonews.com/2016/12/news/mollema-race-giro-support-contador-tour_426165#BMqut2iBHMOguYh1.99

It's a big deal though that Mollema will be a domestique rather than a second protected rider at the Tour. If Mollema is even close to his 2016 level, Sky don't automatically have the strongest lieutenant in the race for a change.

Not really, I don't remember Mollema climbing better than Poels in the Tour this year.

VERY big difference between riding le tour while peaking or riding le tour after you peaked in il giro. Mollema never did this. Check what nibali done this year. And it's freaking nibali. Bauke will be nowhere in le tour, no help whatsoever for alberto except maybe, a big maybe in the alps. Alberto won't have any teammate when the sky mountain train will drill it and there will be only 15-20 riders left. No one.

 

[sir fly]

Re:

Froome's peak climbing didn't impress me last year, and Contador didn't ride a GT on a legit peak. There's a few other small reason I think he still has a fighting chance.

The train partially depends on who Sky is sending to the Giro. I hope they send Poels and Landa to the Giro. All in all, I think Quintana is a bigger problem than Froome for Contador.

Not that I'll be watching though, but that has other reasons

I agree.
Contador has to show he can beat Quintana before he challenges Froome.
And you're right about Froome's climbing. It wasn't really impressive... No one was inspiring enough.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

Froome's peak climbing didn't impress me last year, and Contador didn't ride a GT on a legit peak. There's a few other small reason I think he still has a fighting chance.

The train partially depends on who Sky is sending to the Giro. I hope they send Poels and Landa to the Giro. All in all, I think Quintana is a bigger problem than Froome for Contador.

Not that I'll be watching though, but that has other reasons

I agree.
Contador has to show he can beat Quintana before he challenges Froome.
And you're right about Froome's climbing. It wasn't really impressive... No one was inspiring enough.

And let's not forget that Froome is only 2.5 years younger than Contador. It's not completely impossible that he will start to decrease. Not likely but but also not 100% impossible. Quintana however has the perfect age for a gt rider and I doubt he will be worse than this year. Still I think Contador has a chance to win the tour. It's a very very small one, but it is there.

 

[kingjr]

I think Contador is still the strongest GC rider of the 3. Froome can beat him on a climb when he's super, but not by much, and I think Contador is more consistent over 3 weeks, if he manages to stay on his bike. If Froome has one of his not-so-good days Contador can take more out of him than he will lose in a TT.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Alberto winning the tour is done, I'm stepping out of the genjutsu. I recommend all of you to do the same, it's not worth the pain, trust me

Bye.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

VERY big difference between riding le tour while peaking or riding le tour after you peaked in il giro. Mollema never did this. Check what nibali done this year. And it's freaking nibali. Bauke will be nowhere in le tour, no help whatsoever for alberto except maybe, a big maybe in the alps. Alberto won't have any teammate when the sky mountain train will drill it and there will be only 15-20 riders left. No one.

Well yes but it's his own fault. If it was up to me he'd be on Astana but he chose this crap team instead for some reason.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Froome's peak climbing didn't impress me last year, and Contador didn't ride a GT on a legit peak. There's a few other small reason I think he still has a fighting chance.

The train partially depends on who Sky is sending to the Giro. I hope they send Poels and Landa to the Giro. All in all, I think Quintana is a bigger problem than Froome for Contador.

Not that I'll be watching though, but that has other reasons

I agree.
Contador has to show he can beat Quintana before he challenges Froome.
And you're right about Froome's climbing. It wasn't really impressive... No one was inspiring enough.

And let's not forget that Froome is only 2.5 years younger than Contador. It's not completely impossible that he will start to decrease. Not likely but but also not 100% impossible. Quintana however has the perfect age for a gt rider and I doubt he will be worse than this year. Still I think Contador has a chance to win the tour. It's a very very small one, but it is there.

Yup. And while everyone declines differently, I think initial decline is often steeper than later on. If that's the case for Froome, time may be on Contador's side in relation to Froome. But that's in relation to Froome alone. In reality, time is on Quintana's side, until a rider significantly younger than him starts riding at that kind of level. I don't think he's got a lot of room to improve anymore though, but that shouldn't stop him from completing the set and racking up a nice number of GT wins.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Mollema more or less confirmed Berto will start his season in Argentina and Abu Dhabi. Meh...

"Mollema and Contador will hit some of the early season races together, debuting in Argentina and then at Abu Dhabi and split the European stage race calendar ahead of the grand tours."
Read more at http://www.velonews.com/2016/12/news/mollema-race-giro-support-contador-tour_426165#BMqut2iBHMOguYh1.99

It's a big deal though that Mollema will be a domestique rather than a second protected rider at the Tour. If Mollema is even close to his 2016 level, Sky don't automatically have the strongest lieutenant in the race for a change.

Not really, I don't remember Mollema climbing better than Poels in the Tour this year.

VERY big difference between riding le tour while peaking or riding le tour after you peaked in il giro. Mollema never did this. Check what nibali done this year. And it's freaking nibali. Bauke will be nowhere in le tour, no help whatsoever for alberto except maybe, a big maybe in the alps. Alberto won't have any teammate when the sky mountain train will drill it and there will be only 15-20 riders left. No one.

Agreed. Unless mollema skips the giro he won't be much help for alberto

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re: Re:

VERY big difference between riding le tour while peaking or riding le tour after you peaked in il giro. Mollema never did this. Check what nibali done this year. And it's freaking nibali. Bauke will be nowhere in le tour, no help whatsoever for alberto except maybe, a big maybe in the alps. Alberto won't have any teammate when the sky mountain train will drill it and there will be only 15-20 riders left. No one.

Well yes but it's his own fault. If it was up to me he'd be on Astana but he chose this crap team instead for some reason.

2016 - Crashed (didn't get to see peak form)
2015 - Won the Giro (didn't get to see peak form)
2014 - Crashed (didn't get to see peak form...okay, some might argue about those three seconds on stage 8 )
2013 - Simply didn't get to see peak form
2012 - Did not start

We don't really know if the sky train is of the greatest concern for Contador anyway. If he is in good form then he won't be needing to go on any attempted 50km out suicide mountain raids. He won't even be needing to put in any surprise attacks in the beginning of apparently pointless medium mountain stages....

He will just need to sit there, behind the train, getting pretty much the same protection from the sky train that Froome is getting. And then when Froome has no more than one more teammate left - and if Alberto is feeling those sensations - he goes. If he has great form - and perhaps if Froome has also declined just a little - then there is no reason why he can't grab 10, 20, 30 seconds somewhere; maybe even on two or three mountain stages.

Now if there were a 50km ITT then Contador would probably have to look at attacking from further than 5kms out (or from 5kms out from the final climb with a descent finish) somewhere. Oh, but wait....there is duck all ITT in next years Tour!

I don't see how Alberto not having a super domestique greatly impacts on his chances negatively. Okay, it would of course be better if he had Poels, or Landa, or Thomas riding for him, but given the fact that there aren't any sort of serious ITT kms here for Froome to gap Contador in big time, then Alberto doesn't necessarily need a fresh Mollema riding for him.

And he shouldn't have either. Given Bauke's performance this year, he has every right to ride for his own GC in a GT. Good on the team for giving him a shot at the Giro next year.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

VERY big difference between riding le tour while peaking or riding le tour after you peaked in il giro. Mollema never did this. Check what nibali done this year. And it's freaking nibali. Bauke will be nowhere in le tour, no help whatsoever for alberto except maybe, a big maybe in the alps. Alberto won't have any teammate when the sky mountain train will drill it and there will be only 15-20 riders left. No one.

Well yes but it's his own fault. If it was up to me he'd be on Astana but he chose this crap team instead for some reason.

2016 - Crashed (didn't get to see peak form)
2015 - Won the Giro (didn't get to see peak form)
2014 - Crashed (didn't get to see peak form...okay, some might argue about those three seconds on stage 8 )
2013 - Simply didn't get to see peak form
2012 - Did not start

We don't really know if the sky train is of the greatest concern for Contador anyway. If he is in good form then he won't be needing to go on any attempted 50km out suicide mountain raids. He won't even be needing to put in any surprise attacks in the beginning of apparently pointless medium mountain stages....

He will just need to sit there, behind the train, getting pretty much the same protection from the sky train that Froome is getting. And then when Froome has no more than one more teammate left - and if Alberto is feeling those sensations - he goes. If he has great form - and perhaps if Froome has also declined just a little - then there is no reason why he can't grab 10, 20, 30 seconds somewhere; maybe even on two or three mountain stages.

Now if there were a 50km ITT then Contador would probably have to look at attacking from further than 5kms out (or from 5kms out from the final climb with a descent finish) somewhere. Oh, but wait....there is duck all ITT in next years Tour!

I don't see how Alberto not having a super domestique greatly impacts on his chances negatively. Okay, it would of course be better if he had Poels, or Landa, or Thomas riding for him, but given the fact that there aren't any sort of serious ITT kms here for Froome to gap Contador in big time, then Alberto doesn't necessarily need a fresh Mollema riding for him.

And he shouldn't have either. Given Bauke's performance this year, he has every right to ride for his own GC in a GT. Good on the team for giving him a shot at the Giro next year.

Of course it can have a negative effect. Perhaps in 2009-11 it didn't matter so much, but now he needs every advantage he can get. He's already the weaker one physically speaking - Having a weaker team as well only makes things worse. It gets even worse when you consider the fact that Froome doesn't seem to get weaker over 3 weeks anymore.

 

[Jspear]

Re:

I think Contador is still the strongest GC rider of the 3. Froome can beat him on a climb when he's super, but not by much, and I think Contador is more consistent over 3 weeks, if he manages to stay on his bike. If Froome has one of his not-so-good days Contador can take more out of him than he will lose in a TT.

I highly doubt it. Froome can give a pretty good beating to AC on a climb when he's super. Froome might have a not so good day (maybe), but AC probably will as well.

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

Froome's peak climbing didn't impress me last year, and Contador didn't ride a GT on a legit peak. There's a few other small reason I think he still has a fighting chance.

The train partially depends on who Sky is sending to the Giro. I hope they send Poels and Landa to the Giro. All in all, I think Quintana is a bigger problem than Froome for Contador.

Not that I'll be watching though, but that has other reasons

I agree.
Contador has to show he can beat Quintana before he challenges Froome.
And you're right about Froome's climbing. It wasn't really impressive... No one was inspiring enough.

And let's not forget that Froome is only 2.5 years younger than Contador. It's not completely impossible that he will start to decrease. Not likely but but also not 100% impossible. Quintana however has the perfect age for a gt rider and I doubt he will be worse than this year. Still I think Contador has a chance to win the tour. It's a very very small one, but it is there.

but with a lot fewer heavy miles in his legs. i think this may greatly benefit froome when it comes to his decline.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Froome's peak climbing didn't impress me last year, and Contador didn't ride a GT on a legit peak. There's a few other small reason I think he still has a fighting chance.

The train partially depends on who Sky is sending to the Giro. I hope they send Poels and Landa to the Giro. All in all, I think Quintana is a bigger problem than Froome for Contador.

Not that I'll be watching though, but that has other reasons

I agree.
Contador has to show he can beat Quintana before he challenges Froome.
And you're right about Froome's climbing. It wasn't really impressive... No one was inspiring enough.

And let's not forget that Froome is only 2.5 years younger than Contador. It's not completely impossible that he will start to decrease. Not likely but but also not 100% impossible. Quintana however has the perfect age for a gt rider and I doubt he will be worse than this year. Still I think Contador has a chance to win the tour. It's a very very small one, but it is there.

but with a lot fewer heavy miles in his legs. i think this may greatly benefit froome when it comes to his decline.

Possibly, but mileage affects each rider differently, and a large part of mileage is gonna be training, and we don't know how those stack up. Then you have riders like Valverde who's got tonnes more mileage and still barely seems to decline.

 

[kingjr]

Re: Re:

I highly doubt it. Froome can give a pretty good beating to AC on a climb when he's super. Froome might have a not so good day (maybe), but AC probably will as well.

Don't think he can if Contador is at his best. He never has.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

Froome's peak climbing didn't impress me last year, and Contador didn't ride a GT on a legit peak. There's a few other small reason I think he still has a fighting chance.

The train partially depends on who Sky is sending to the Giro. I hope they send Poels and Landa to the Giro. All in all, I think Quintana is a bigger problem than Froome for Contador.

Not that I'll be watching though, but that has other reasons

I agree.
Contador has to show he can beat Quintana before he challenges Froome.
And you're right about Froome's climbing. It wasn't really impressive... No one was inspiring enough.

And let's not forget that Froome is only 2.5 years younger than Contador. It's not completely impossible that he will start to decrease. Not likely but but also not 100% impossible. Quintana however has the perfect age for a gt rider and I doubt he will be worse than this year. Still I think Contador has a chance to win the tour. It's a very very small one, but it is there.

but with a lot fewer heavy miles in his legs. i think this may greatly benefit froome when it comes to his decline.

I've heard this argument over and over again, but can anyone even proof that the length of a career really influences the decline of a rider. It probably does but I think age must be way more important and as RedRick has written, if "mileage" would be so important how can riders like Valverde still be so good.

 

[Red Rick]

Mileage is definitely a thing, though it's a lot more important in sports that have more explosive movement and/or are more stressful on the joints. Except for crashes, cycling is pretty benign on the joints and there's no contact, or super explosive movements like jumping or changing directions very quickly, like in tennis, football or basketball.

Cycling performance is almost 100% physical endurance, which peaks later and starts declining later than explosiveness. Now mileage affects that too, exercise accelerates aging intracellularly, but that has less impact than wear and tear on joints and loss of explosivity. I also think decline looks a lot more spectacular if you drop from being above the field toward it, rather than just dropping within the field. To me it also seems that peak level may decline sooner than base level. Many riders only have a few years in which they reach their absolute peak, even if they are competitive for a very long time.