Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Gigs_98]

About the Schleck/Contador topic on the previous page, I really think 2010 Contador is massively underrated just because there was someone else who was actually climbing as well as him. That year the two could basically just ride away from anyone uphill whenever they wanted. When Andy attacked, out of a still really big group, on the Tourmalet and it looked like anyone but Contador didn't even try to react, that's just insane. Ever since the Froome kinda lost his uphill kick after 2015 we almost forgot what domination uphill even looked like. Stuff like that just hasn't happened in the tour in a while.

 

[Red Rick]

About the Schleck/Contador topic on the previous page, I really think 2010 Contador is massively underrated just because there was someone else who was actually climbing as well as him. That year the two could basically just ride away from anyone uphill whenever they wanted. When Andy attacked, out of a still really big group, on the Tourmalet and it looked like anyone but Contador didn't even try to react, that's just insane. Ever since the Froome kinda lost his uphill kick after 2015 we almost forgot what domination uphill even looked like. Stuff like that just hasn't happened in the tour in a while.

IIRC, they just already had more than a minute on everyone else halfway up the climb. It then somewhat stopped growing in the final few km, and I don't even know if Schleck and Conti went as hard as they could in the end.

Froome had this thing where he only had to attack to drop one guy cause his team would be so strong to drop everyone else. He also has a large tendency to only do one big attack per GT if at all and just attack close to the finish for the rest.

 

[Forever The Best]

GOD **** DAMNIT ALBERTO I HAD MADE MY PEACE WITH YOUR CRASHES IN 2016 AND 2017

When exactly would that have been.

I still think he had a great chance to win the 2016 Tour. He was flying in the last stage of Paris-Nice, looked totally in control at Pais Vasco and he even looked good in Dauphine. At least he could have given Froome some kind of challenge. And then he crashed in stage 1. Was extremely disappointing that Tour, probably in my top-5 frustrating sports moments.

 

[Simurgh]

I still think he had a great chance to win the 2016 Tour. He was flying in the last stage of Paris-Nice, looked totally in control at Pais Vasco and he even looked good in Dauphine. At least he could have given Froome some kind of challenge. And then he crashed in stage 1. Was extremely disappointing that Tour, probably in my top-5 frustrating sports moments.

Mostly agree, but I remember his Dauphine to be unimpressive, apart from the prologue. The climb up to Vaujany was bad, lost 20 seconds to Froome. I actually went back in the thread (approx. page 1435) and the reactions there was mixed it best. Good old taxus, wonder what he's up to nowadays. I might not remember it correctly, but I can't find any footage except for those useless official summaries. There is some (edited?) footage of Contador ascending Les Gets to enjoy:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiHopUd4BjU&t
(same channel has uploaded other stages from several races, mostly Contador-related it seems)

 

[Red Rick]

Contador used to be slightly undercooked every Dauphine so getting dropped once wasn't too bad. Really agressive though. In 2009 he was clearly there just to train.

Sometimes I wonder why he switched to climbing out of the saddle so much at such a massive gear and if that was even a good thing.

 

[Gigs_98]

Tbh, don't think he wouldn't have seriously challenged Froome anyway. It surely would have been a much more enjoyable Tour, he might have got a podium or a stage somewhere along the way, but I just don't think he still had it in him to compete with Froome at that point. Like, 2017 Vuelta Contador has become this somewhat mythical figure, but even then he was only actually competitive on a very specific sort of climbs and profited a lot from getting much more freedom because he lost so much time early on.

If you want to be sad about a missed chance, be sad about 2014 and who knows, maybe 2015 would have worked out entirely different without the giro. But at that point he was simply already on the decline.

 

[tobydawq]

Contador used to be slightly undercooked every Dauphine so getting dropped once wasn't too bad. Really agressive though. In 2009 he was clearly there just to train.

Nah, he was just smashed by Valverde, the moral Tour winner of 2009 who would then go on to stamp his authority over the Vuelta where Contador didn't dare face him.

 

[Red Rick]

Sadly we'll never know how much was decline and how much was other things. Crashes, overracing, tactics, etc. I'm inclined to wonder if the '20 minute standing on the pedals' was stupid training and it wouldn't have messed with his seated power and thus ITT, etc. I think he may have trained too much on the 20 minute efforts and not enough endurance. This would in turn basically inflate his "test" results.

If anything, it woudl've been fun to have the data of this test from before every GT.

Lastly, I think Froome was a lot more beatable in 2017 than in 2016.

 

[Forever The Best]

His performance on Noyer on the final stage looked very good. And Contador is not aa rider who is good in Dauphine. Even in his Tour winning years he would get beaten by others in Dauphine. In 2017 yes Froome was more beatable compared to 2016 but Contador just did not have the form in 2017 IMO. Or maybe Froome just had a lot more in the tank in all those years. ( see Jafferau 2018 )

 

[gregrowlerson]

Sadly we'll never know how much was decline and how much was other things. Crashes, overracing, tactics, etc. I'm inclined to wonder if the '20 minute standing on the pedals' was stupid training and it wouldn't have messed with his seated power and thus ITT, etc. I think he may have trained too much on the 20 minute efforts and not enough endurance. This would in turn basically inflate his "test" results.

If anything, it woudl've been fun to have the data of this test from before every GT.

Lastly, I think Froome was a lot more beatable in 2017 than in 2016.

He certainly seemed to be worse on the long stages late in his career, and more dangerous to his opponents on the short ones.

But as you say, there are a lot of what if's with those last couple of seasons. His ITT in the 2017 Tour was even pretty good; the legs weren't too bad. As I have said many times though, I think 2016/2017 were hugely entertaining for fans of Contador (Paris-Nice', Formigal, Foix, Angliru), arguably more so than 2009/10.

 

[Red Rick]

He certainly seemed to be worse on the long stages late in his career, and more dangerous to his opponents on the short ones.

But as you say, there are a lot of what if's with those last couple of seasons. His ITT in the 2017 Tour was even pretty good; the legs weren't too bad. As I have said many times though, I think 2016/2017 were hugely entertaining for fans of Contador (Paris-Nice', Formigal, Foix, Angliru), arguably more so than 2009/10.

After the first Pyrenees stage in 2017, he just started to taking the piss with the agression. Foix. Then Croix de Fer (mate if you want to win that stage just go into the main breakaway), then attacking on the Izoard despite having no legs to win.

There was something about Contador flying up that hill in the Marseille ITT and putting down the fastest intermediate.

Ultimately it would've been more entertaining and satisfying if a lot of the agression had come from a chance to really win.

 

[gregrowlerson]

After the first Pyrenees stage in 2017, he just started to taking the piss with the agression. Foix. Then Croix de Fer (mate if you want to win that stage just go into the main breakaway), then attacking on the Izoard despite having no legs to win.

There was something about Contador flying up that hill in the Marseille ITT and putting down the fastest intermediate.

Ultimately it would've been more entertaining and satisfying if a lot of the agression had come from a chance to really win.

I still don't really know what to make of a lot of that. Some pretty good moments in the Tour and a lot of pretty good moments in the Vuelta. I wish that one had been more consistent and he had at least seriously contended for overall victory.

As for Croix de Fer, that was very exciting for half an hour or so. But as for winning that stage, I don't know if he would have been allowed into the breakaway originally. What I mean is that I don't know if a break with him in it would have been allowed to get away. Even though he was a long way behind in the standings.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

This thread is starting to look like remcos, a lot of what ifs and if onlys.

 

[Gigs_98]

This thread is starting to look like remcos, a lot of what ifs and if onlys.

It's nothing compared to when he was still active.
With Remco the what ifs are usually "what if he had raced there? Would he have won?"
With Contador it used to be more like "He did race there, he didn't win, but like, what if he did?"

 

[Red Rick]

It's nothing compared to when he was still active.
With Remco the what ifs are usually "what if he had raced there? Would he have won?"
With Contador it used to be more like "He did race there, he didn't win, but like, what if he did?"

"He could've done better if he hadn't crashed a billion times" is hardly a big what if, nobody's claming he coulda woulda shoulda won x y and z. Also nobody is arguing some race Contador won was hard or something because of 10 minutes of recovery time after a cat 3 which was done at 4W/kg which was all argued because it somehow makes Contador look good indirectly.

 

[roundabout]

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[Red Rick]

Forgot if these had been posted or not, but anyone see these?

 

[perico]

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I think he probably would’ve won without the crash, but he was exhausted after the Giro and it’s not as clear cut how much it would have mattered. I’m not as confident that he would have, unlike 2014, where I am sure he would have won. As strong as Vince was, he was never on Schleck-level climbing wise, and Contador at his best was even better than that, and Bjarn himself said 2014 Contador was at his very best.

 

[Red Rick]

2014 would be up in the air for me cause Nibali was really *** good, and over 2'30 was a LOT of time. Nib's time on Hautacam was blisteringly fast considering it was mostly a solo effort without a crazy pace set up by his team, so for Contador to put a huge amount of time into him would require him to set climbing times not seen since the early 2000s.

 

[Jspear]

Funny to still see conversations about 2014. I love it.

 

[Red Rick]

Funny to still see conversations about 2014. I love it.

I can still go on about that World Cup too tbh.

 

[perico]

2014 would be up in the air for me cause Nibali was really *** good, and over 2'30 was a LOT of time. Nib's time on Hautacam was blisteringly fast considering it was mostly a solo effort without a crazy pace set up by his team, so for Contador to put a huge amount of time into him would require him to set climbing times not seen since the early 2000s.

I think Nibali was great that year, but according to Bjarn

2014 would be up in the air for me cause Nibali was really *** good, and over 2'30 was a LOT of time. Nib's time on Hautacam was blisteringly fast considering it was mostly a solo effort without a crazy pace set up by his team, so for Contador to put a huge amount of time into him would require him to set climbing times not seen since the early 2000s.

Bertie dropped Nuclear Froome, not once, but twice, in the last week of the La Vuelta that year. Neither of them started in optimal health after the Tour, but both seemed to peak in the last week. Bjarn claimed Contador would’ve put at minimum 1 minute into Nibali at Planche sea Belle Filles alone. For me, it all depends if he still had his kick. It was gone in his last years, but if he was as good as Bjarn stated, then Vince would’ve blown up trying to follow him. Rasmussen and Schleck are the only two I know that could follow him when he accelerated at his best.

 

[Red Rick]

I think Nibali was great that year, but according to Bjarn


Bertie dropped Nuclear Froome, not once, but twice, in the last week of the La Vuelta that year. Neither of them started in optimal health after the Tour, but both seemed to peak in the last week. Bjarn claimed Contador would’ve put at minimum 1 minute into Nibali at Planche sea Belle Filles alone. For me, it all depends if he still had his kick. It was gone in his last years, but if he was as good as Bjarn stated, then Vince would’ve blown up trying to follow him. Rasmussen and Schleck are the only two I know that could follow him when he accelerated at his best.

That's sounds fake to me? IIRC they said the plan was to attack the penultimate climb already. 1 minute faster than that Nibs time is impossible.

The one hilltop finish they had was also insane in that it doesn't really give any indication. If Nibs had not lost time there, I would've said Nibs would simply win. If Contador had easily dropped Nibs there, it goes the other way around.

 

[Forever The Best]

Has this been posted?
https://www.velonews.com/news/contador-reveals-new-details-of-armstrong-rivalry-in-2009-tour/

Wow, Lance.
Many would have sulked but Contador did not. An amazing rider.

 

[Red Rick]

Jesus.

Looks like Armstrong really wanted to lose a Tour to Andy Schleck. It really makes me think Bruyneel thought he could control Contador and that's why Armstrong came back.