Alberto Contador suspended until August 2012 (loses all results July 2010 - Jan 2012)

[Paco_P]

Right. You put it straight.

I wonder why so many people try to protect a guy who tested positive twice for a banned substance... Because he is such a nice guy? :-D I can't remember anybody defending Ricco or DiLuca in the same way. And I can't imagine that the only reason would be that AC has his funny little "I had contaminated steak" story. In Germany, we once had the case of Dieter Baumann (5k gold medal in Barcelona 1992). Years after his big win, he got busted for some banned stuff and blamed it on "contaminated tooth-paste". Of course he got banned. A stupid story might be (and remain) just that: PLAIN stupid.

People protect him because they like him. In his native language he comes across as a straight speaking fellow, not very media friendly, but not a prima donna. Folks like how he races - among a peloton of dopers he's the one attacking and doing things that are enjoyable to watch. Folks like how he rides on the bike. Finally, and most essentially, folks like him and protect him because he wins - most everybody has their heros - and for some that hero was/is Contador.

Just to explain - I like him and how he races, although I am convinced that he (and most of those around him) are dopers.

 

[sniper]

People protect him because they like him. In his native language he comes across as a straight speaking fellow, not very media friendly, but not a prima donna. Folks like how he races - among a peloton of dopers he's the one attacking and doing things that are enjoyable to watch. Folks like how he rides on the bike. Finally, and most essentially, folks like him and protect him because he wins - most everybody has their heros - and for some that hero was/is Contador.

Just to explain - I like him and how he races, although I am convinced that he (and most of those around him) are dopers.

Ricco and Vino are also enjoyable to watch, nonetheless got their punishment.

among a peloton of dopers, AC and his fans think he deserves some sort of special treatment that other riders such as Ricco and Vino did not get.

 

[hrotha]

People protect him because they like him. In his native language he comes across as a straight speaking fellow, not very media friendly, but not a prima donna.

This is true. It's also the main reason why he disgusts me, the slimy sneaky illegitimate child. The fact that he can look all indignant while he claims he's always been surrounded by antidoping folks... Blergh.

 

[Benotti69]

This is true. It's also the main reason why he disgusts me, the slimy sneaky illegitimate child. The fact that he can look all indignant while he claims he's always been surrounded by antidoping folks... Blergh.

But we hear this from all the mouths of those caught.

Those caught have no problem looking indignant as they think about the peloton riding off into the sunset with their little white lunch bags in the pockets of their jerseys.

 

[hrotha]

But we hear this from all the mouths of those caught.

Those caught have no problem looking indignant as they think about the peloton riding off into the sunset with their little white lunch bags in the pockets of their jerseys.

Most of those caught don't make a televised circus out of it, though. More crucially, I don't have to listen to people around me buying their BS constantly.

edit: Also, "I didn't dope" is standard practice and I expect that, especially since at the time they say it usually there's still the possibility, no matter how small, that they got a false positive. But Contador's claim about his surroundings is immediately false to the naked eye and extremely cynical from the moment it goes out of his mouth. The guy's saying that and then showing up with Riis for a press conference, ffs.

 

[Von Mises]

CAS made no such claim.

They analysed the scenarios presented:
Meat contamination - unlikely.
Transfusion theory - unlikely.
Supplement contamination - possible.

To be even more precise, all arguments and theories were focused on CB. They evaluated different scenarios only how they could be tied to clen. If you forget clen at all and look at transfusion theory seprately, weel, it seems very-very likely, that AC was blood doper.

 

[Von Mises]

People protect him because they like him. In his native language he comes across as a straight speaking fellow, not very media friendly, but not a prima donna. Folks like how he races - among a peloton of dopers he's the one attacking and doing things that are enjoyable to watch. Folks like how he rides on the bike. Finally, and most essentially, folks like him and protect him because he wins - most everybody has their heros - and for some that hero was/is Contador.

Just to explain - I like him and how he races, although I am convinced that he (and most of those around him) are dopers.

True, but thats also one of the reasons why the cases like these should be pursued relentlessy and national federations bysided. I had similar experiance in my own country, one of our countrymen was caught doping and this reaction, blind faith, what followed, it was almost frightening...

 

[Benotti69]

Most of those caught don't make a televised circus out of it, though. More crucially, I don't have to listen to people around me buying their BS constantly.

edit: Also, "I didn't dope" is standard practice and I expect that, especially since at the time they say it usually there's still the possibility, no matter how small, that they got a false positive. But Contador's claim about his surroundings is immediately false to the naked eye and extremely cynical from the moment it goes out of his mouth. The guy's saying that and then showing up with Riis for a press conference, ffs.

Yep, you just have to look at his history of DSs all the way from Saiz to Riis and the 2 in between, Bruyneel and Martinelli.

Joke.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Can someone explain why CAS used Balance of Probabilities instead of Beyond Reasonable doubt as the standard of proof?

 

[Escarabajo]

Can someone explain why CAS used Balance of Probabilities instead of Beyond Reasonable doubt as the standard of proof?

IMO: because Beyond Reasonable Doubt never existed.

Read Dr. Maserati post #1205.

 

[Fetisoff]

Maybe because one thing was beyond the reasonable doubt - Contador had clen in his system, clen is a banned substance without a threshold limit.

 

[Nilsson]

IMO: because Beyond Reasonable Doubt never existed.

Read Dr. Maserati post #1205.

Because this case is a contamination case, in which no direct proof could be presented. Contador, therefore, had to proof his theory on a balance of probabilities, and CAS had to judge it as such...

I, therefore, do not totally agree with Dr. Maserati's post...

All three theories presented were possible, but not all equally likely. CAS decided that meat and transfusion were equally unlikely, but a contaminated supplement less unlikely (IMO, because it was a way out, a door left open to somewhat good means and a sanction).

Contador therefore did not succeed to establish his case on a balance of probabilities, lost and (because he did not use the supplement scenario as his defense theory - and thus no reduction for 'nor significant fault or negligence' could be applied) received a two year ban...

Contador not being able to establish his case on a balance of probabilities was sufficient for CAS. They are not required to know beyond reasonable doubt what was the exact cause, only to judge which theory is marginally more likely - in which the burden of proof is always on the athlete...

 

[Publicus]

Can someone explain why CAS used Balance of Probabilities instead of Beyond Reasonable doubt as the standard of proof?

That standard is applied almost exclusively in criminal matters where a person's freedom is at stake. Most civil cases are a preponderance of the evidence (i.e., 50.1%, more than likely). For ease of explanation, think of the balance of probabilities as being akin to a preponderance of the evidence.

 

[thehog]

Contador tweeted a photo of himself on a bike along with the message: "Going back to work, sacrifice and hard training, this is our sole secret."

 

[Carols]

Contador tweeted a photo of himself on a bike along with the message: "Going back to work, sacrifice and hard training, this is our sole secret."

Kind of reminds me of the Lance commercial: 'What am I on? I'm on my bike 6 hours a day. What are you on?'

 

[bigloco]

Kind of reminds me of the Lance commercial: 'What am I on? I'm on my bike 6 hours a day. What are you on?'

I think the 2 are far more alike than lovers on either side are apt to admit.

 

[Carols]

I think the 2 are far more alike than lovers on either side are apt to admit.

There I disagee

IMO Lance is an arrogant, obnoxious bully and Alberto is a humble sort in the mold of Indurain, talks with his legs not his mouth. Give me Indurain and Alberto any day!

 

[nightfend]

Saw this posted on the main site:

Key error in CAS report on Contador - However, that blood test, taken during the Tour’s second rest day in the Pyrenees and the night after Contador and some of his team-mates had eaten the soon-to-be-famous steak that had been brought from Spain, actually took place on the morning of 21 July.

However, that blood test, taken during the Tour’s second rest day in the Pyrenees and the night after Contador and some of his team-mates had eaten the soon-to-be-famous steak that had been brought from Spain, actually took place on the morning of 21 July. The error has led to some speculation that the suggestion made by Contador’s legal team that the steak in question was tainted with clenbuterol did not stand up as the rider appeared to have clenbuterol in his system before eating the meat.

Uh, what? Wouldn't the test have to have taken place on the 18th for the clenbuterol to have been in his system BEFORE he ate the meat? This doesn't make sense to me. The TDF rest day was on the 18th of July!

 

[Lanark]

Saw this posted on the main site:


Uh, what? Wouldn't the test have to have taken place on the 18th for the clenbuterol to have been in his system BEFORE he ate the meat? This doesn't make sense to me. The TDF rest day was on the 18th of July!

That would be true, if he was caught in the 2011 Tour

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Saw this posted on the main site:


Uh, what? Wouldn't the test have to have taken place on the 18th for the clenbuterol to have been in his system BEFORE he ate the meat? This doesn't make sense to me. The TDF rest day was on the 18th of July!

The rest day was July 18th in 2011 ..... but was the 21st in 2010

 

[T-Nielsen]

Acording to the head of the danish anti-doping agency it is a mistake, that Contador will not earn any points the next two years.

WADA rules protect athletes against harder punishment then the ones in force at the time of their "sin". The 2 year no points rule is apparently from last year (around the WC 2011), after Contador gave his CB sample.

Does this hold water oh wise debaters on the clinic forums ?

If this has been touched upon in another subforum, by all means, merely point me in the right direction.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Acording to the head of the danish anti-doping agency it is a mistake, that Contador will not earn any points the next two years.

WADA rules protect athletes against harder punishment then the ones in force at the time of their "sin". The 2 year no points rule is apparently from last year (around the WC 2011), after Contador gave his CB sample.

Does this hold water oh wise debaters on the clinic forums ?

If this has been touched upon in another subforum, by all means, merely point me in the right direction.

This should be the case with Valverde too then.

 

[roundabout]

I don't remember Mr. Evald standing up for Valverde.

Also, shouldn't he have other things to do instead of being an unpaid consultant for a high-powered team of lawyers who could have figured it out on their own???

Pathetic...

 

[rkp5097]

Interested in Alberto

Is this what's happened with CAS
I read the CAS judgement and they say that the clem could have been the result of contaminated meat, a blood transfusion or a supplement.
As the first two were equally unlikely, they argue, clem must have come from the supplement, and therefore, perhaps through no fault of his own, Contador is guilty.
What I want to know is this. Do CAS think that the positive result was due to a blood transfusion but can't prove it so have claimed the supplement is the most likely cause.
If so, it looks like they have a sense of humour.

 

[sniper]

Is this what's happened with CAS
I read the CAS judgement and they say that the clem could have been the result of contaminated meat, a blood transfusion or a supplement.
As the first two were equally unlikely, they argue, clem must have come from the supplement, and therefore, perhaps through no fault of his own, Contador is guilty.
What I want to know is this. Do CAS think that the positive result was due to a blood transfusion but can't prove it so have claimed the supplement is the most likely cause.
If so, it looks like they have a sense of humour.

Not only the CAS have humor, AC is a funny guy as well:

AC had been told about the plasticizer positive early on in August 2010, which is why, in his first press conference after the positive came out, completely out of the blue, and without any apparent reason, he stressed that the meat had been transported to France in a plastic vacuum packaging.