All is ok, Jens has given his reasoned decision

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Aug 11, 2012
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hrotha said:
OK, let's accept for a second that Voigt never doped. It's a stretch, given that we're in the late 90s, but OK, we know there were some exceptions.

But he never saw anything? His first experience with doping was when the Festina case exploded? Mind, CA was probably clean(ish) in JV's time, but Gan wasn't clean before Festina. And Voigt, who made the Tour squad and who was a important rider in the team, never saw anything? Come on.
Hrotha, at least these questions can be answered. Its not difficult to understand that his 1st expierence with doping was in 1998 (Festina). It was his second season as pro...and he certainly was not an important rider as it was his first Tour as well.
 
Sep 15, 2012
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Benotti69 said:
Jens is lying plain and simple.

I dont care if there is no doping evidence against him.

I judge him in the current cycling climate by his friends and DSs. Amrstrong and Bruyneel.
I tend to agree.

When USADA came up with their reasoned decision he was among those who made the usual "we need to move on"-, "10 years 's long ago"-statements. He even joined the 15 years Livestrong celebration in Austin, cheering LA.

And did he ever complain about a doper? The critics apparently did bother him more. Here ist a little tidbit, though in german.

Some riders were asked if the've already doped today. At the start and at the very end of the clip you can hear a pretty angry Jensie. He even cited the bible: "Those who are without sin should cast the first rock" and then made the zip lips gesture:

http://www.spiegel.tv/filme/doping-radsport-armstrong/

Bottom line, IMHO he is a denier and omertist.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Mr_Hansen said:
I tend to agree.

When USADA came up with their reasoned decision he was among those who made the usual "we need to move on"-, "10 years 's long ago"-statements. He even joined the 15 years Livestrong celebration in Austin, cheering LA.

And did he ever complain about a doper? The critics apparently did bother him more. Here ist a little tidbit, though in german.

Some riders were asked if the've already doped today. At the start and at the very end of the clip you can hear a pretty angry Jensie. He even cited the bible: "Those who are without sin should cast the first rock" and then made the zip lips gesture:

http://www.spiegel.tv/filme/doping-radsport-armstrong/

Bottom line, IMHO he is a denier and omertist.
Lovely bit of television!
Highly recommended! The question is simple: "Have you doped today?"
Voigt enfuriated. In fact he indirectly admits, as he rethorically counter-asks the reporter whether he's never ever done anything that is against the law.

Anybody who wants to contradict that Spain has a strong apologetic doping culture?
Then compare German cycling coverage with the Spanish.
 
May 3, 2010
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sniper said:
Lovely bit of television!
Highly recommended! The question is simple: "Have you doped today?"
Voigt enfuriated. In fact he indirectly admits, as he rethorically counter-asks the reporter whether he's never ever done anything that is against the law.

Anybody who wants to contradict that Spain has a strong apologetic doping culture?
Then compare German cycling coverage with the Spanish.
It's great stuff. You can also compare it to British or US coverage as well. Could you imagine Harmon or the BBC going around Sky asking 'have you doped today?'
 
Aug 27, 2012
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Mr_Hansen said:
I tend to agree.

When USADA came up with their reasoned decision he was among those who made the usual "we need to move on"-, "10 years 's long ago"-statements. He even joined the 15 years Livestrong celebration in Austin, cheering LA.

And did he ever complain about a doper? The critics apparently did bother him more. Here ist a little tidbit, though in german.

Some riders were asked if the've already doped today. At the start and at the very end of the clip you can hear a pretty angry Jensie. He even cited the bible: "Those who are without sin should cast the first rock" and then made the zip lips gesture:

http://www.spiegel.tv/filme/doping-radsport-armstrong/

Bottom line, IMHO he is a denier and omertist.
Wow, i have never seen that report before. Jens is practically admitting that he is a doper, insulting the interviewer and asking him if he never did anything wrong- just wow. I suppose swearing is not allowed, which means i can't type here the translation lol
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Mrs John Murphy said:
It's great stuff. You can also compare it to British or US coverage as well. Could you imagine Harmon or the BBC going around Sky asking 'have you doped today?'
true, but on an imaginary continuum from very critical to very apologitic/uncritical, the Spanish press is really on the extreme right hand side of the scale. Just one recent example: a Spanish 'article' from a few days ago reports that some Australian newspaper has linked Ferrer to Del Moral. Some Australian journal linking Ferrer to Del Moral? Goodness me, you must have been living in a cave if you're a sportsjournalist and you haven't heard about that link before. And then the uncritical citing of Ferrer's denial at the end of the 'article'. Wllingly ignorant and naive, in other words: apologetic. And Spanish reporting on e.g. Contador hasn't been any better.
http://es.eurosport.yahoo.com/noticias/tenis-relacionan-a-david-ferrer-doctor-del-moral-180424802.html
 
Oct 16, 2012
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One thing’s for sure: Jens is a) under pressure and it’s clear, that he cannot stand the questions light-hearted, and b) that two options are unavailable for him: simply answering "no" und lying.

The conclusion is as simple as it is bitter for any Jens fan. Say Goodbye to the Last Innocent of the peloton.
 
Mar 17, 2012
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Bavarianrider said:
Voigt is the biggest disgarce among all cyclist.
I can't even say how much i despise him. MR Omerta himself. The biggest hypocrite in the whole peleton.
May he burn in hell! (Anybody knowing something about him knows why he deserves)
100% agree.
 
Professional cycling is a circus and Jens is one of the clowns.

So many people are acting as if pro cycling has lately been ruined, or something. Nothing's been ruined. A curtain has been pulled away, that's all. Now everybody can see just how filthy the sport always has been.

The only bad guys now are the ones trying to convince people (esp. kids) that there is anything noble about pro cycling.

It sure is an interesting freakshow.
 
May 3, 2010
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Cycling gets what it deserves.

- The athletes are lying ****s
- The management are lying ****s
- The authorities are lying corrupt ****s
- The media are, with one or two exceptions, lying omerta upholding ****s
- The fanboys and girls who refuse to accept that their heroes have feet of clay are ****s.

He is as divorced from reality as Contador, McQuaid, Frodo, Verdruggen, Friebe, Brailsford, Riis, Wiggins, Benson, and the fanboys and girls. Each needs the other in order to survive.
 
MarkvW said:
Professional cycling is a circus and Jens is one of the clowns.

So many people are acting as if pro cycling has lately been ruined, or something. Nothing's been ruined. A curtain has been pulled away, that's all. Now everybody can see just how filthy the sport always has been.

The only bad guys now are the ones trying to convince people (esp. kids) that there is anything noble about pro cycling.

It sure is an interesting freakshow.
Mark pains me to say but yes 100% I agree.
 
Oct 16, 2009
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MarkvW said:
Professional cycling is a circus and Jens is one of the clowns.

So many people are acting as if pro cycling has lately been ruined, or something. Nothing's been ruined. A curtain has been pulled away, that's all. Now everybody can see just how filthy the sport always has been.

The only bad guys now are the ones trying to convince people (esp. kids) that there is anything noble about pro cycling.

It sure is an interesting freakshow.
Nail on head. The only way pro cycling will ever be clean is if you surgically remove anyone who's ever doped or lied about doping or helped others dope, and only let people who've been clean and firmly antidoping for their entire careers have access to the sport. But obviously that will never happen, so cycling will never be clean.
 
Oct 16, 2012
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Re: his geocaching hobby – possibly a good method to find containers stashed alongside the road by teammates … :D
 
cineteq said:
Hamilton: "I am not saying it is impossible that he [Voigt] has not seen or heard anything about doping, but I do not believe him."

Includes video interview.
http://www.sporten.dk/cykling/voigt-spytter-mig-i-ansigtet
I'm not sure I trust Hamiltons accuracy in regards to who was doping. I think for him, thinking that everyone else was doping was a way to justify his own doping. Likely he assumes a lot more were doping than is actually true.

As for Jens. Seeing as Jens is such an open guy who everyone talks to as Hamilton says, I find it strange that he never talked with Hamilton about Hamiltons doping.

Hamilton says he was very quiet about his doping. Perhaps other dopers were too, and weren't willing to talk about their doping even with the affable Jens?

My opinion on the post festina situation in the Peleton is that dopers and clean guys would never talk about doping with each other. Only with guys they felt were on the same side.


As for whether Jens doped:

Post Festina doping would be a very big surprise.
Pre Festina doping would not surprise me that much.
 
Linus Gerdemann ‏@LGerdemann
Hamilton is a doper and he can not imagine that other riders are able to play fair. He has never been with Jens Voigt in a Team!

Linus Gerdemann ‏@LGerdemann
Because this guy want to sale his book he is willing to destroy the reputation of a fair sportsman.
 
May 26, 2010
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Zam_Olyas said:
Linus Gerdemann ‏@LGerdemann
Hamilton is a doper and he can not imagine that other riders are able to play fair. He has never been with Jens Voigt in a Team!

Linus Gerdemann ‏@LGerdemann
Because this guy want to sale his book he is willing to destroy the reputation of a fair sportsman.
More of the usual BS. Hey Linus Armstrongs paid liars already used that against Hamilton and copyrighted it. Get a different one!
 
Mar 17, 2012
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Benotti69 said:
More of the usual BS. Hey Linus Armstrongs paid liars already used that against Hamilton and copyrighted it. Get a different one!
I remember quite well:

Linus got his spot on CSC from May 2nd 2005 thanks to Voigt, who introduced him to Riis as great German talent.

Gerdemann was with Winfix-Techem at this time, a German Elite team, fourth categorie, one categorie below the GSIIIs. He became 23 in 2005, so was first year out of the U23 categorie. Long before, he had been kicked out of the German U23 national team due to his selfish and non-sportsman-like behaviour. Though known as quite talented, after 2004, it seemed that it possibly would be hard for him to even find a Pro team willing to sign him; his reputation concerning personality was miserable all over middle Europe.

In spring 2005, it was Voigt who, like I said, brought him the chance to join a CSC traning camp, and after that, Riis agreed to sign him from May on, with Henninger Turm being his last race for Winfix.

Gerdemann now seems to remember, so he protects Voigt.

Do I think Gerdemann is a clean rider? No.
Do I think Voigt is clean? The same, no.
 

Fidolix

BANNED
Jan 16, 2012
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It´s fairly simple, nobody was not aware about what was going on, nobody.
It went on, on every team in a more or less organized manner, it was a culture, it was a daily routine and they all were part of it.
There´s really no need to keep guessing or arguing who were dirty and who was not, and if anybody was truly clean they surely must have known about it.
 
neineinei said:
Jaksche agrees with Hamilton that Voigt must have been blind and deaf to not have seen or heard anything. He also says that Voigt made his best results in the era when there was no EPO-test.[/URL]
Can't wait to read what Linus has to say. :D
 
Oct 28, 2012
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neineinei said:
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/doping-vorwuerfe-gegen-jens-voigt-du-musst-von-blinden-umgeben-sein-1.1514647

Jaksche agrees with Hamilton that Voigt must have been blind and deaf to not have seen or heard anything. He also says that Voigt made his best results in the era when there was no EPO-test.

Voigt says he can't sue Hamilton, he hasn't said he doped.
Unsurprising, they are both selling the same line that they had to dope to compete, ergo, posturing that all being clean they would be the best rather than another couple of donkeys like Lance. The notion that anyone could win clean doesn't sit well with their egos nor does they idea they they were not victims but very much at the forefront of the doping race.

It's very covenient to buy into their PR, except they were equaly emphatic in every version of reality they tried to sell to date.

“Not for a second did I think it was going to turn out this way. The bottom line is an innocent athlete was suspended from competition. You could say it's a victory for USADA (U.S. Anti Doping Agency), but I think it's better to say it's a tragedy for all athletes. I'm innocent.”

"I wouldn't have been outside busting my **** (Monday) for six hours in the saddle to come home and hear this news. If even 1 percent of me thought it wasn't going to turn out well, I don't think I could have found the motivation to go out and train like that."
 

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