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Allen Lim to Testify 9/29

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Roland Rat said:
Uh-huh. He might as well dress up in a clown suit and have flashing lights on his nipples, he's that obvious. The Feds might as well get some interns in for some easy "in the field" practice.

Even watching Lance is so obvious that he's lying. Not that I expect him to buckle but it's very apparent they were all caught off guard and never expected Floyd to go nuclear.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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to add to my previous thoughts on lim's subpoena...

-it's curious that all other potential or already deposited pro-armstrong witnesses had their attorneys name in public domain. it appears not the case for lim - i just googled him and cant find any. is it a sign of a partial cooperation under an immunity deal that had already been broadly worked out ?

- we heard recently that american justice ministry officials are reviewing floyd's whistle blower civil case as to whether the fed should join in...it seems novi is steering his gj discovery in that direction as if trying to help the reviewers with fraud evidence from his interviews.
 

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python said:
to add to my previous thoughts on lim's subpoena...

-it's curious that all other potential or already deposited pro-armstrong witnesses had their attorneys name in public domain. it appears not the case for lim - i just googled him and cant find any. is it a sign of a partial cooperation under an immunity deal that had already been broadly worked out ?

- we heard recently that american justice ministry officials are reviewing floyd's whistle blower civil case as to whether the fed should join in...it seems novi is steering his gj discovery in that direction as if trying to help the reviewers with fraud evidence from his interviews.

You do realise that there are also lawyers who do not want to come into the public eye.

But anyway, I wonder what Lim will say, and I also wonder how long this grand jury proceeding will last. Especially if you take into account earlier media stating that there is the problem of the statute of limitations
 
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Barrus said:
But anyway, I wonder what Lim will say, and I also wonder how long this grand jury proceeding will last. Especially if you take into account earlier media stating that there is the problem of the statute of limitations

Just a guess, but it would make sense to build a strong case against Leipheimer before talking to him. If Lim would say that he assisted him in doping for the Tour de France, that would be big.

How long is Lim's contract with Radio Shack?

This quote from the Lim article has me intrigued by the wording:

When I worked with Floyd, I repeatedly told him that he didn't need to dope and should not dope, and I was absolutely not hired to help him to do so

First, how did the topic come up so often that he told Floyd those things "repeatedly"?

Then the carefully worded "Not hired to help him" just means that it wasn't why Floyd brought him on and it wasn't part of his duties the first day on the job. Lots of people end up doing things that weren't originally a part of their duties. This statement doesn't say that he didn't help himself dope.
 
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After that stage win by Landis in 2006 didn't Lim come out and say he knows that Floyd can hit 360 watts for 6 hours in training?

That's around 5 watts per kilo, right?

If we are now seeing the upper limit of threshold efforts decline from 6.5 to just over 5 for efforts of less than one hour - how silly does Lim look?
 
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Mongol_Waaijer said:
After that stage win by Landis in 2006 didn't Lim come out and say he knows that Floyd can hit 360 watts for 6 hours in training?

That's around 5 watts per kilo, right?

If we are now seeing the upper limit of threshold efforts decline from 6.5 to just over 5 for efforts of less than one hour - how silly does Lim look?

Did a quick Google

“A closer look at the data, however, shows that Floyd’s performance that day was well within his physical and mental capacity,” said coach Dr. Allen Lim. “In fact, the most important contributors to Floyd’s comeback was the tactics that developed during the ride – the hesitation by the peloton to chase and Floyd’s intelligent use of water.”

Landis had previously used a power meter in the 2005 Tour and Lim had published all his performance data. Analyzing his stage 17 results in 2006, Lim concluded that “Floyd averaged 281 watts for the entire 5 hour and 23 minute ride”. He went on to add that, “In training before the Tour and even before the Tour of Georgia, Floyd would regularly perform 6-hour rides at 300-310 watt averages.”

Lim also pointed to other figures: “As a point of reference, the overall average for the mountain days in the 2006 Tour de France was 269 watts +/- 16 watts [253-285], while the average in the 2005 Tour de France for the mountains was 274 watts +/- 20 watts [254-294].”

Going into the stage, Lim calculated that if Landis produced 380 watts on the climbs he would stay with the field; anything over and he would put time into them. Producing 370 watts would mean losing time. Using Landis’s stage 17 data, Lim published the following figures for the climbs.

* Col des Saises: 36 min 55 sec at 395 watts (gains time on field)

* Col des Aravis: 16 min 49 sec at 371 watts (loses time on field)

* Col de la Colombiere: 27 min 45 sec at 392 watts (gains time on field)

* Cote de Chatillon: 11 min 7 sec at 374 watts (loses time on field)

* Col de Joux-Plane: 37 min 34 sec at 372 watts (loses time on field)

Comparing the power data above to Landis’s performance in 2005 is illustrative. His best performance was on the mountains stage in the Alps, stage 11 to Briancon where he averaged 285 watts. In two tough consecutive days in the Pyrenees, stages 14 and 15, perhaps more comparable to stage 16 and stage 17 in 2006, for example, Landis averaged only 262 and 249 watts – the second day to Pla d’Adet showing the strain of consecutive stages.

Lim’s data for stage 17 shows several impressive power performances for periods over 30 minutes – 395 watts on the Col des Saises, 392 watts on the Col de la Colombiere, and 372 watts on the Col de Joux Plane. In 2005, on stages 14 and 15, his 30 minute peak power performances were 379 watts and 361 watts. It was these repeated efforts on the stage 17 climbs that were the winning formula.

Landis clearly made some improvements in his average power and peak power outputs for certain timeframes from his Tour ride in 2005 to his 2006 performance. What is interesting, though, is Lim’s claim that Landis was doing training rides at notably higher average wattages than any of his Tour performances in 2005. Now that’s hard training!

http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/27
 

Dr. Maserati

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Wow - in one of the articles 'The Wordsman' linked it mentions Kevin Livingston being subpoenaed.

This is quite a big development - as KL and FL never raced together on the same team, KL last rode with USPS in 2000, and was out of the game by 2002.
This revelation gives us an idea just how broad this investigation is.


One of the people who spoke on condition of anonymity also told The Associated Press that former cyclist Kevin Livingston also has been subpoenaed and could testify before the grand jury as early as Wednesday. Livingston rode on Armstrong's Tour-winning teams in 1999 and 2000 and now works as a coach, operating out of the basement of an upscale bike shop in Austin that is co-owned by Armstrong.
 
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thehog said:
Anyone remember the video of Lim attempting to lie at the ToC this year?

The guy cant hide anything. It was written all over his face.


from what i have read on the forum, the GJ can eat greasy bacon bit rice cakes while Allen pours them whiskey, for a maximum of a seven hours sitting.

that's a lot of cakes. :eek:
images
 
Floyd's "intelligent use of water"-that has to be a new one in the annals of sports physiology.

By the way, anyone notice that moron Bob Roll in the Radio Shack ToC video standing there shaking his head in agreement to everything Bruyneel and Armstrong say?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_h1hjqJh6I

I hope Roll gets implicated and convicted as well. How much time can you do for being a "Yes" man?

Armstrong-"I would say I'm a little surprised but I'm not". There's a word to describe this type of double-talk. Someone help me out here...
 
A

Anonymous

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Berzin said:
I hope Roll gets implicated and convicted as well. How much time can you do for being a "Yes" man?


Ok, coffee out of my nose. The question of the year. Well done.
 
Moose McKnuckles said:
AdH is right. Lim will uphold omerta. Which in the end, may be a good thing, since he'll be caught perjuring himself and the sport will be rid of these self-serving tools.

Good point. I wait for the day he taken away in handcuffs with Lim shouting "Im innocent! It was the rice cakes and intelligent use of water!"
 
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NashbarShorts said:
1. I'm not a doctor, just a PhD.
Which unfortunately for Lim means that instead of merely passing the standard to be an MD he succeeded in establishing himself as an expert in his chosen area of science. As AdH wrote, it will be hard to accept that the poor farm kid duped him. I'm sure he has been well prepped by a legal team but I suspect that if he gets rattled the jury will see a repeat performance of the fish out of water air-gulping interview he gave at ATOC.
 
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Moose McKnuckles said:
AdH is right. Lim will uphold omerta. Which in the end, may be a good thing, since he'll be caught perjuring himself and the sport will be rid of these self-serving tools.

One glaring contradiction is the difference in amounts paid to Lim. Floyd says $80k, Lim say $8k. The devil might be in the difference and if there was cash and paper/email trail documenting the activity. Add Levi's participation and it gets closer to an organized ring.
Livingston as a separate issue can relate back to USACycling and it's administration of internal PED testing all the way to his early USPS time. Lance's latent support for him and Marty Jemison might suggest friendship but I doubt it.
 
Whether Lim will lie will come down to what evidence he thinks the feds have or can get. If everything was between FLandis and Lim with no other witness and no transactional evidence then he will feel that it will be his word against Landis'. If others, like Leipheimer, could implicate him then he would be taking a huge risk relying on those others to keep quiet.
 
BroDeal said:
Whether Lim will lie will come down to what evidence he thinks the feds have or can get. If everything was between FLandis and Lim with no other witness and no transactional evidence then he will feel that it will be his word against Landis'. If others, like Leipheimer, could implicate him then he would be taking a huge risk relying on those others to keep quiet.

I hope they made sure Levi was to testify right after Lim, and knowing about this, without chance to be informed of proceedings, of course. Would Levi take the chance and contradict Lim under sworn oath?
 
thehog said:
Anyone remember the video of Lim attempting to lie at the ToC this year?

The guy cant hide anything. It was written all over his face.

He acted guilty as sin during that interview. All Novitsky has to do to elicit the same response is throw Lim a curve ball. Fortunately for Lim, it's been 4 months since that interview, so he's had plenty of time for coaching.
 
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I know now, Allen Lim was not the purported Frankenstein doctor, made out to be here on this forum. And I WAS one of the scathing critics of him. He was basically just a go-fer. He was not the brains, nor the logistics, behind the operation on Phonak, and one extrapolates, Garmin. He may have been a cog, but a fungible part, that another underling would have played that role, if he had not.

Not a significant player in the operation. Might be a victim of circumstance.

Radioshack's money, and stealing Lim, was Phinney mkII. Nothing about doping, just about oneupmanship on Vaughters.

Dont expect much relevant stuff, at his GJ
 
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blackcat said:
I know now, Allen Lim was not the purported Frankenstein doctor, made out to be here on this forum. And I WAS one of the scathing critics of him. He was basically just a go-fer. He was not the brains, nor the logistics, behind the operation on Phonak, and one extrapolates, Garmin. He may have been a cog, but a fungible part, that another underling would have played that role, if he had not.

Not a significant player in the operation. Might be a victim of circumstance.

Radioshack's money, and stealing Lim, was Phinney mkII. Nothing about doping, just about oneupmanship on Vaughters.

Dont expect much relevant stuff, at his GJ

I think you are spot on.

Lim going to Radioshack was all about screwing JV. Funny thing was Lance did not even know that Lim had already lost his job at Slipstream until he had already signed his $500,000 contract.
 
blackcat said:
I know now, Allen Lim was not the purported Frankenstein doctor, made out to be here on this forum. And I WAS one of the scathing critics of him. He was basically just a go-fer. He was not the brains, nor the logistics, behind the operation on Phonak, and one extrapolates, Garmin. He may have been a cog, but a fungible part, that another underling would have played that role, if he had not.

Not a significant player in the operation. Might be a victim of circumstance.


I'm not understanding this post. First of all, a victim of circumstance is someone who through no fault of their own finds themselves in a compromising position and is forced to make what would normally be an unethical and/or illegal choice. Like if your plane crashes in the Andes mountains and you're forced into cannibalism.

Lim never fit into this category. He has more expertise in doping than many give him credit for. He's not some front man like Chris Carmichael, who couldn't coach a hooker into bed.

This guy may be a hack (I am certain of this, as nothing any of his riders have done under his guidance would lead one to conclude he knows what he's talking about) but he knows his doping. He knows enough to get recruited by Armstrong personally and is pulling a hefty salary for his knowledge, regardless of who taught him and when. It certainly wasn't in school that he learned about blood doping, that's for sure.


blackcat said:
Radioshack's money, and stealing Lim, was Phinney mkII. Nothing about doping, just about oneupmanship on Vaughters.

Why would Armstrong be so vindictive against Vaughters? If anything Vaughters has kept his mouth shut to the detriment of his own credibility, and it's because of his strict observance of omerta that he is dressed in argyle with a pro tour team under his belt. If anything Armstrong should be kissing Vaughters' behind for being the faithful little slug he's been all these years.