Allowing the Vuelta it's proper place as a Grand Tour

[ak-zaaf]

Ask the riders what race they would love to win. I'm sure TdF, PR, LBL, and RvF would top the WC.

Most Spaniards and Italians would rather win the WC than any of those classics.

And you shouldn't underestimate the status of riding around in that jersey all year.

Paris-Roubaix is probably higher ranked among a lot of riders, Vlaanderen for the Vlamingen, MSR for some Italians, but for the rest I think the worlds is pretty much up there.

For me personally the Worlds RR is the most delightful day of cycling next to the Ronde van Vlaanderen each year.

 

[benpounder]

...

Well I will say that is an interesting opinion. You from the low countries, me from the new country. When Lance won the worlds way back when, I was modestly impressed, but it was not PR. His later stage win in the TdF was also noted, but unremarkable. My girlfriend at the time commented on how he dominated the JR tri circuit in Texas. woopiee

The point bieng Lance was not Big Time until he won the TdF. Hincapie is huge in my pantheon, yet unless he wins PR, he will become a footnote in american cycling lexicon.

The Worlds may mean much in Netherlands, but here in the US, they mean little.

[added]Paris-Roubiax and Ronde van Vlaanderen are the epitome of the single day race.

[redit]Nederland? My mistake.

 

[icefire]

?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Why does it matter whether the race one year is more suited to Cunego, and more suited to Cavendish the next? It's the motherf@cking Worlds!

If the race is more suited to Cavendish I just need to watch the last 2 km

They should do a sprinters' World Champ for them. Just a 5 or 10 km flat race would be enough for the show

If the World is flat, I prefer other 1-day races to the Worlds

 

[blaxland]

personally i would move the worlds.. just means one world champion gets a shorter reign..

if valverde wins the world championship then i propose moving the worlds to january,..

+1 ha ha ha ha ha worlds in january what a great idea.only if valverde wins...

 

[auscyclefan94]

What about organizing the Vuelta at the beginning of august? You won't have a TDF contender at the start, but that's no different from the current situation. Keep the Worlds where it's situated right now and use the one week stage races like the Eneco tour, Tour of Poland, Deutschland Tour (RIP) together with the 250km semi classics (San Sebastian, Hamburg, Zurich (RIP)) as a "preparation" for the Vuelta. You'll have less withdrawals from these small stage race because they only take 1 week. And the 250km semi classics are ideal to get the distance in the legs. In this case the Vuelta would become a "standalone" race.

I agree. You couldn't have it before the touur. too cluttered.

 

[derailleur]

Not only move the Worlds, but hold them only every four years (alternate with Olympics). As with ski racing, the worlds and the olympics are not the pininacle of road cycling, and by holiding them every year, it further dilutes their prestige.

Everyone knows the winner of the TdF is the world's best cyclist and the winner of the World Championships is the holder of a leftover trademark.

Doing it every 4 years would make it about as relevant to the sport as the Olympics are to any pro sport.

Cycling is a random agglomeration of independently organized, haphazardly scheduled events.

They compete on their merits just as their participants do. If the Vuelta or the Worlds can raise their game, one will dominate the other. Then they can take on the Giro or the Tour.

 

[Bala Verde]

Apparently a number of Belgian spring classics will be moved around:

Gent-Wevelgem moves to the sunday before RvV, March 28th.

The wednesday between RvV and PR, the Scheldeprijs will be held.

The Brabantse Pijl will be moved to the wednesday before AGR.

The E3 prijs is going to be moved to the wednesday before RvV.

 

[il_fiammingo]

Most Spaniards and Italians would rather win the WC than any of those classics.

And you shouldn't underestimate the status of riding around in that jersey all year.

Paris-Roubaix is probably higher ranked among a lot of riders, Vlaanderen for the Vlamingen, MSR for some Italians, but for the rest I think the worlds is pretty much up there.

For me personally the Worlds RR is the most delightful day of cycling next to the Ronde van Vlaanderen each year.

We follow the Ronde van Vlaanderen with a lot more passion for sure, but the WC is really the most important race for a nation of one day specialists. Although we all know the WC actually is a crap race where nothing really happens until the last 1.5 laps.

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

A day late, but....

Shining fortunes come and go, and ultimately come back to many bike races - provided they can hang on during the lean years!

In my mind, fortune shines best on the Vuelta, regardless of its placement on the calendar, when there is stability at the top end of the TdF general classification, and we haven't really seen that since '05.

In the years when Indurain/Bugno/Chiappucci and Armstrong/Ullrich/Beloki/Basso had a lock on the top positions at the Tour, it seemed like many riders knew that they wouldn't have a chance in the Tour, and thus looked for other races in which to leave a mark on the sport.

Since Armstrong's retirement, the whole OP thing, and the '08 exclusion of Astana, there hasn’t been a Tour with a super stable crop of contenders. So, in that vacuum, I think many riders get sucked into believing that they have a shot at, or are pressured by sponsors to aim for the Tour's general classification.

Of course, I'm willing to accept that this is an over-simplified and romanticised notion, but I think once we have a rider winning consecutive TdF's we will see more riders targeting the Vuelta - and these won't just be guys that were excluded from, crashed out, or had a lacklustre Tour.

 

[derailleur]

Since Armstrong's retirement, the whole OP thing, and the '08 exclusion of Astana, there hasn’t been a Tour with a super stable crop of contenders. So, in that vacuum, I think many riders get sucked into believing that they have a shot at, or are pressured by sponsors to aim for the Tour's general classification.

Lance finished third. Contador had Lance's help (frankly, he had one of the best teams ever assembled, period, full stop, no argument against it will hold water). Andy Schleck still harassed Alberto. And Brad Wiggins surprised us all.

All of those guys, and several others, will be in the field at next year's TdF, and this time none of them will be playing political patty-cake.

I see nothing predictable about it.

2010 will be an epic year for the business of pedalling around France.

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

Lance finished third. Contador had Lance's help (frankly, he had one of the best teams ever assembled, period, full stop, no argument against it will hold water). Andy Schleck still harassed Alberto. And Brad Wiggins surprised us all.

All of those guys, and several others, will be in the field at next year's TdF, and this time none of them will be playing political patty-cake.

I see nothing predictable about it.

2010 will be an epic year for the business of pedalling around France.

The mathematical minimum for my arguement is 2011.

 

[Rosedale]

Almost all National championships are held on the weekend immediately preceding the Tour de France. I suggest that the World Championships are held on the weekend immediately preceding the Vuelta.

 

[Rosedale]

Lance finished third. Contador had Lance's help (frankly, he had one of the best teams ever assembled, period, full stop, no argument against it will hold water). Andy Schleck still harassed Alberto. And Brad Wiggins surprised us all.

All of those guys, and several others, will be in the field at next year's TdF, and this time none of them will be playing political patty-cake.

I see nothing predictable about it.

2010 will be an epic year for the business of pedalling around France.

What has this got do do with the Vuelta?

 

[Anonymous]

I would move the Worlds to the week before the tour, with the elite road race on the sunday one week prior to the TDF prologue.

This way, the national championships could be run one week prior to the worlds, such that the top one-day racers will be in peak form from riding the spring classics and the giro

The benefit of this schedule is that the winner of the rainbow jersey can show off his jersey one week later at the tour de france. I really dont see that point of having the worlds at the end of september. You win the jersey, do lombardia and a few lower profile one-dayers and then you get 5 months of nothing (well, training and no racing)

Regardless of when the vuelta is, it is still the 3rd preferred GT, and that will not change. my suggestion is purely in terms of having the fittest, in form riders peaking the week before the tour, rather than hanging on to their form for a long drawn out season. Look at Ballan and Grabsch at this years tour - didnt really do the jersey much justice..

 

[ingsve]

I would move the Worlds to the week before the tour, with the elite road race on the sunday one week prior to the TDF prologue.

This way, the national championships could be run one week prior to the worlds, such that the top one-day racers will be in peak form from riding the spring classics and the giro

The benefit of this schedule is that the winner of the rainbow jersey can show off his jersey one week later at the tour de france. I really dont see that point of having the worlds at the end of september. You win the jersey, do lombardia and a few lower profile one-dayers and then you get 5 months of nothing (well, training and no racing)

Regardless of when the vuelta is, it is still the 3rd preferred GT, and that will not change. my suggestion is purely in terms of having the fittest, in form riders peaking the week before the tour, rather than hanging on to their form for a long drawn out season. Look at Ballan and Grabsch at this years tour - didnt really do the jersey much justice..

So the goal is to make the Tour even more of a highlight and throw the vuelta even further under the bus? I don't see the logic in this. Why on earth is it even important that the two world champions make a good showing in the Tour anyway?

This single focus making the Tour the all important race above everything else is just ridiculous. Do we really want a cycling season that is over by the end of July?

 

[dblueroom]

what makes TDF the tour has a lot to do with France and the month of July. The roads are different - the fans are wilder. you can have all the big names at Vuelta - it wont feel the French flair. you can put worlds at the beginning the year, not gonna change Vuelta.

I think it's time next year for A. Schleck to win the Giro - he was close last year and without a team behind him. can he do two grand tours in a year?

 

[Anonymous]

So the goal is to make the Tour even more of a highlight and throw the vuelta even further under the bus? I don't see the logic in this. Why on earth is it even important that the two world champions make a good showing in the Tour anyway?

This single focus making the Tour the all important race above everything else is just ridiculous. Do we really want a cycling season that is over by the end of July?

(i) My point is not to through the vuelta under the bus - my point is that it's already under the bus. its disrespectful that half the field dropped out after 2 weeks to prepare for the worlds..

(ii) The cycling season wont be over by july, and there is plenty of logic having the world championships in the same time period as the one-day classics (Spring bordering summer). the reverse question to you is, where is the logic in having the greatest one-day race of the season a good 3 months after the one-day specialists have peaked?

(iii) I mentioned last years world champions becoz the tour gets the greatest exposure of all over the world. So at the tour, we see world champions 10 months after they one the race. I enjoy the tour alot becoz i get to see the recently crowned national champions in their fresh new jerseys, and i think it would be cool to see the recently crowner world champion in his fresh new jersey at the TDF

 

[ingsve]

(i) My point is not to through the vuelta under the bus - my point is that it's already under the bus. its disrespectful that half the field dropped out after 2 weeks to prepare for the worlds..

Having some stars drop out after 2 weeks is alot better than not having them show up at all. Since the status of the vuelta is already rather low why would we want to make changes that would even further diminish it? If that's the attitude we might as well just cancel the whole Vuelta.

(ii) The cycling season wont be over by july, and there is plenty of logic having the world championships in the same time period as the one-day classics (Spring bordering summer). the reverse question to you is, where is the logic in having the greatest one-day race of the season a good 3 months after the one-day specialists have peaked?

Simple, so that the one day specialists don't just do an Armstrong and finish the season half way through. Nobody liked it when Armstrong just stopped racing after the Tour. People want to see their favourites race so there should be opportunities for them to race the entire season. In my opinion they should bring back the old World Cup so that there is a clear and long classics season that lasts from march to september at least.

Also putting the Worlds the week before the Tour doesn't really tie it in with the spring classics. The classics season is over by end of April so it would be a two month gap until Worlds. If the spring classics guys also want to race some fall classics they would have to have three periods of peak shape instead of two.

(iii) I mentioned last years world champions becoz the tour gets the greatest exposure of all over the world. So at the tour, we see world champions 10 months after they one the race. I enjoy the tour alot becoz i get to see the recently crowned national champions in their fresh new jerseys, and i think it would be cool to see the recently crowner world champion in his fresh new jersey at the TDF

Changing the calender simply for cosmetic reasons is not a good idea.

 

[racerralph]

Almost all National championships are held on the weekend immediately preceding the Tour de France. I suggest that the World Championships are held on the weekend immediately preceding the Vuelta.

Bravo! short, concise and on the point. I agree with you on this simple schedule change. It seems that it wouldn't be too traumatic to the calendar, and would stop the mid race retirements we now see because some of the "contenders" don't want to burn themselves out before the World Championships.
Of course some will argue that there would then be less motivation for some of the stars to participate in the Vuelta at all. But that would be a problem for the Vuelta organizers to solve, on their own. I'm not sure that guarantees are illegal, after hearing that LA got guarantees to appear at the Giro. And, if that's the case, then the Vuelta's sponsors could round up a little more "motivational" money to guarantee that their race had "staying" star power.
I don't want to compare the Vuelta to the TdF or the Giro. That's like comparing apples to oranges to coconuts. In Tennis, Wimbledon's status does nothing to diminish the status of the US Open, or the French Open, or even the Australian. The key to all of those "Majors" is that their fields are fully stocked with all the big players. And each is regarded with high esteem. As part of the "Grand Slam"
All I'm saying is that, It would just be nice to raise the credibilty and status of the Vuelta to more than just a warm up for the World Championships, to it's deserved place as a "Major", on the Cycling calendar.

 

[ingsve]

In Tennis, Wimbledon's status does nothing to diminish the status of the US Open, or the French Open, or even the Australian. The key to all of those "Majors" is that their fields are fully stocked with all the big players. And each is regarded with high esteem. As part of the "Grand Slam"

The diffrence is that in Tennis it's easy for all players to come and participate in all the grand slams. In cycling it's not even desireable to have all top riders compete in all three GTs because they would only be placeholders in the ones they're not focused on.

 

[racerralph]

The diffrence is that in Tennis it's easy for all players to come and participate in all the grand slams. In cycling it's not even desireable to have all top riders compete in all three GTs because they would only be placeholders in the ones they're not focused on.

Point well taken. However, the same can be said for Tennis, in that some of the Top players are not clay court specialists, yet they still show up in France for that Major,risking humiliation to a much lower ranked player who specializes on that surface. And the same goes for Clay court specialists who show up at the grass courts of Wimbledon. There, the clay court ground strokers get assaulted by booming, serve and volleyers, who finish points with two quick strokes. yet they still show up.
However, to your point, the nature of the 3 week events that make up Cycling's 3 majors means that it would be next to impossible for the top contenders to vie for all of the titles, of the three Grand Tours. But certainly we could get a better field in place for the Vuelta, which is now treated almost as an after thought. And it would be nice if the organizers of the calendar, took away the excuse many riders now have for not completing the race, which is that, the Championships follow the Vuelta so closely.
A simple change of the Championships to August would still have riders in prime shape, after the TdF, and keep them on the road, before many of them officially end their seasons.

 

[ingsve]

Point well taken. However, the same can be said for Tennis, in that some of the Top players are not clay court specialists, yet they still show up in France for that Major,risking humiliation to a much lower ranked player who specializes on that surface. And the same goes for Clay court specialists who show up at the grass courts of Wimbledon. There, the clay court ground strokers get assaulted by booming, serve and volleyers, who finish points with two quick strokes. yet they still show up.
However, to your point, the nature of the 3 week events that make up Cycling's 3 majors means that it would be next to impossible for the top contenders to vie for all of the titles, of the three Grand Tours. But certainly we could get a better field in place for the Vuelta, which is now treated almost as an after thought. And it would be nice if the organizers of the calendar, took away the excuse many riders now have for not completing the race, which is that, the Championships follow the Vuelta so closely.
A simple change of the Championships to August would still have riders in prime shape, after the TdF, and keep them on the road, before many of them officially end their seasons.

The opposite is actaully true. When they first moved the Vuelta to the fall the worlds were held in october. The vuelta was struggling then as well but when they moved the worlds to september to be alot closer to the vuelta, the vuelta got a good boost from it.

The worlds being right after the Vuelta helps it alot more than it hurts it.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Though I do generally favor moving the Veulta back to April/May and the Giro back to May/June, I don't think that's the primary issue.

I think what the Vuelta could do is be more bold in it's course design. They did good this year, actually. They could try things that we have suggested in the past, like TTT's over a col, or downhill ITT's, or even tougher mountain stages before rest days, etc. Or even eliminating race radios, or cutting teams down to 7 riders. These are the kinds of things that would spice the racing up, more than where it happens to fall on the calendar.

It always struck me as strange that riders would enter the Vuelta, then drop out, to prepare for the Worlds. At the Vuelta you have many chances to win something, and shine - be that a stage, a jersey, a sprint point, etc. and get on TV for your sponsor. At the Worlds, there are basically two chances. A TT and a RR, that's it. And as we saw this year, a rider who rode the Vuelta, and didn't drop out but went for it, was the winner at the Worlds. Three of the other top Vuelta riders (Valverde, Sanchez, Ramirez) were in the final break as well.

 

[ingsve]

I think do deal with the dropouts they should do specific things to encourage riders to stay in the race. They could specifically think about how the last week looks and how appealing it is to the non GC riders.

That is of course if it's even important that riders finish the Vuelta. I really don't have a problem with some specific riders abandoning. People that are in the GC won't drop out so it won't effect the overall competition in any way. Then there is the question of sprinters which really depends on what the course looks like and how the points competition is. If the worlds wasn't there we would still have sprinters dropping out if there were no real incentive for them to stick around.