Alto de L'Angliru V Monte Zoncolan. Which climb is harder?

[Señor_Contador]

I see a lot of Spanish posters are strongly arguing for Angirilu. Is there a correlation between nationality and choice, in this thread?

I don't even think that the Zoncolan is the most difficult climb in Italy. I think there's one calle Bocca di Fassa that is a wall from top to bottom.

Now, between the Angliru and the Zoncolan, it's Angliru all the way.

If you don't believe me, try doing both climbs.

 

[The Hitch]

I think you might be mixing Zoncolan up with some other climb.

 

[Descender]

When they find a 12.1% climb over 10km in Spain, i will cheer it all the way.

Alto de Chanajiga, 9,6kms at 12%, which is not less than Zoncolan.

I posted it on the unknown climbs thread. It's on the island of Tenerife.

 

[The Hitch]

Alto de Chanajiga, 9,6kms at 12%, which is not less than Zoncolan.

I posted it on the unknown climbs thread. It's on the island of Tenerife.

That doesnt meet the "over 10k" stipulation

But thats more what im talking about. Would love the Vuelta to go to the Canaries, though it might prove difficult logistically. If they did would like to see some more balls than the Pais Vasco visit this year.

I also like what i heard about that 40km climb somewhere in Spain which is the highest the road goes in Europe or some other such record.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

And my love for Zoncolan comes from the fact that I genuinely believe it to be the biggest baddest mountain in this thing of ours, and my primitive brain sees pure steepness and difficulty as the main quality, whereas you for example like Marmolada because you take into account other aspects.

Biggest I'll disagree with. Baddest, maybe not. Ah, my raging crush on the Passo Fedaia. You remembered

Its not like I have any other reason to cheer for the Zonc. Ive never been to the dolomites and im a sucker for pretty much anything Spanish, (except la roja which i despise).

Especially anything to do with Spanish cycling (ive been accused of being a Samu, Contador and Purito fanboy all in the last week)

And Angry lu of course shares its home with Samu Sanchez.

When they find a 12.1% climb over 10km in Spain, i will cheer it all the way.

But until then, the pure brutality of Zoncolan with its world record gradient for a climb of that lenght, and the fact that its super steep all the way wins me over overtime.

The thing is, there are steeper climbs, of course. The Nebelhorn has already been posted in here, and Scanuppia always gets a mention. But go much more steep than Zoncolán and Anglirú and it ceases to become a race. These are about as steep as it can get whilst still providing us with racing, which is why they are so revered. If the Österreichrundfahrt (or the Giro, to be fair, which could visit it) went all the way to the top, Kitzbüheler Horn is 9,7km @ 12,9%, with its steepest full km at 14,4%. That is a Zoncolán matcher; and of course as I mentioned before the Rettenbachferner has statistics comparable to the Mortirolo - but takes place at 1000m higher altitude.

For me, the big thing in Zoncolán's favour is that it can be linked to Crostis. Zoncolán, like Anglirú, is plenty brutal enough, but only one of them can be placed in a stage where we could reasonably EXPECT that everything has broken to pieces long before they reach the foot of the final climb. They could put a climb like La Cobertoria in an Anglirú stage, but there's no getting around Cordal being the hardest climb that can be directly linked to it.

 

[The Hitch]

Ah, my raging crush on the Passo Fedaia. You remembered
.

I have a photographic memory. Increasingly i am begining to believe this forum is the only place where it is useful.

Even though you refuse to tell, i think ive solved the "is LS a man or a woman" puzzle, as well as the "where is LS from" puzzle, based on contributions i remember you posting in June and July last year

The thing is, there are steeper climbs, of course. The Nebelhorn has already been posted in here, and Scanuppia always gets a mention. But go much more steep than Zoncolán and Anglirú and it ceases to become a race. These are about as steep as it can get whilst still providing us with racing, which is why they are so revered. If the Österreichrundfahrt (or the Giro, to be fair, which could visit it) went all the way to the top, Kitzbüheler Horn is 9,7km @ 12,9%, with its steepest full km at 14,4%. That is a Zoncolán matcher; and of course as I mentioned before the Rettenbachferner has statistics comparable to the Mortirolo - but takes place at 1000m higher altitude.

Yeah those other climbs would be good too, and if they were used frequently in gts i might come to love them as well.

Of course the myth of the climb matters big time for me too. Both Zoncolan and Angirilu have been used a few times now in the last decade or so, and as a result they immediately become the main event of any GT they feature in.

And even more so the crowds. A climb that can bring out the hundreds of thousands for me is something special.

Thats why I love Bola del Mundo even though its only been used once and everything outside the last 3k is pretty normal.

And Zoncolan is the only climb in the world that can rival Alpe d huez for crowds.

That 2010 Zoncolan stage probably had as many fans as anything other than Alpe 04, and for a none Tour grand tour to achieve that, is something truly special.

For me, the big thing in Zoncolán's favour is that it can be linked to Crostis. Zoncolán, like Anglirú, is plenty brutal enough, but only one of them can be placed in a stage where we could reasonably EXPECT that everything has broken to pieces long before they reach the foot of the final climb. They could put a climb like La Cobertoria in an Anglirú stage, but there's no getting around Cordal being the hardest climb that can be directly linked to it

I somehow doubt Zoncolan will ever be linked to Crostis, after what happened this year.

Unfortunately.

Though it represents to me, what an independent Poland represented to my ancestors - something I hope to see before I die.

 

[jobiwan]

I chickened out and voted can't compare. They're both painful to watch!

 

[zapata]

How would I know? They both look absurdly difficult. Is there anyone on this forum that have done both? If so, I salute you, and hope to hear of your experience.

 

[The Hitch]

Knew poll idea.

If you were arrested and forced to do one of these as punishment, which one would you choose.

a Climb Monte Zoncolan
b Climb Alto de Angirilu
c Go 3 rounds with a fully fit 20 year old Mike Tyson

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I have a photographic memory. Increasingly i am begining to believe this forum is the only place where it is useful.

Even though you refuse to tell, i think ive solved the "is LS a man or a woman" puzzle, as well as the "where is LS from" puzzle, based on contributions i remember you posting in June and July last year

I guess actually yes, it's not that surprising to remember stuff about forum members considering how often we all interact, and we can all remember stats and race results for literally hundreds of riders over the years.

Up up down down left right left right B A start, just because we use cheats doesn't mean we're not smart...

Yeah those other climbs would be good too, and if they were used frequently in gts i might come to love them as well.

Of course the myth of the climb matters big time for me too. Both Zoncolan and Angirilu have been used a few times now in the last decade or so, and as a result they immediately become the main event of any GT they feature in.

I suppose this is the problem - the Rettenbachferner was used twice in the Deutschlandtour, and Kitzbüheler Horn is used (or the first 7,4km, as far as Alpenhaus, is used) every year in the Österreichrundfahrt, but we don't get to see them with the world's elite climbing them. But there are a lot of climbs just begging for that myth to be built about them (that's what the Great Unknown Climbs thread was about). These are the hardest climbs in the GTs right now, but maybe in 10-20 years they'll start to feel overused and they'll have paved some new hell-climb, like the track up to Alpe Cermis or something, and those will take over.

And even more so the crowds. A climb that can bring out the hundreds of thousands for me is something special.

Thats why I love Bola del Mundo even though its only been used once and everything outside the last 3k is pretty normal.

And Zoncolan is the only climb in the world that can rival Alpe d huez for crowds.

That 2010 Zoncolan stage probably had as many fans as anything other than Alpe 04, and for a none Tour grand tour to achieve that, is something truly special.

Now this is something that I can definitely accept. Anglirú has some problems in the form of access; watching the 2008 event you have some sections where the riders can barely move for fans... then round a corner and be plunged into deathly silence. Very eerie.

I guess at least it's not as bad as Xorret del Catí, where riders go through 4km of a wall of fans, fans absolutely everywhere lining the road several deep in places... then with about 2km to go you crest the top of the mountain, and then you're riding with no fans, no barriers, down a hillside in the middle of nowhere to the finish. Very, very bizarre.

I somehow doubt Zoncolan will ever be linked to Crostis, after what happened this year.

Unfortunately.

Though it represents to me, what an independent Poland represented to my ancestors - something I hope to see before I die.

I hope to see a Tour de Pologne that climbs a couple of those cobbled monstrosities mentioned in the Great Unknown Climbs thread.

 

[The Hitch]

I hope to see a Tour de Pologne that climbs a couple of those cobbled monstrosities mentioned in the Great Unknown Climbs thread.

I actually saw several very steep cobbled climbs in Warsaw old town and as a cycling fan my first thought is obviously "Why dont they use this in the TDP".

Of course they want the first few stages to be for sprinters unfortunately.

Regretfully races dont really want to use cobbles outside of the February- April period.

A real shame imo.

 

[Arnout]

Now this is something that I can definitely accept. Anglirú has some problems in the form of access; watching the 2008 event you have some sections where the riders can barely move for fans... then round a corner and be plunged into deathly silence. Very eerie.

I guess at least it's not as bad as Xorret del Catí, where riders go through 4km of a wall of fans, fans absolutely everywhere lining the road several deep in places... then with about 2km to go you crest the top of the mountain, and then you're riding with no fans, no barriers, down a hillside in the middle of nowhere to the finish. Very, very bizarre.

That's even worse in the yearly Basque Country stage to Arrate, those 2km downhill are the weirdest km's you will ever see in a bike race.

 

[no crostis no party]

Above the Sierra Nevada ski station (village) is Pico Veleta, @ 3498 meters. Climbing from Granada over the Monachil/El Purche, is about 35 k (guess-I don't use a computer). The road turns to shale path at @ 3345 meters. Not that difficult overall insofar as steepness goes, excepting the hard parts of El Purche, which has 18-22% grade or two.

 

[no crostis no party]

I guess at least it's not as bad as Xorret del Catí, where riders go through 4km of a wall of fans, fans absolutely everywhere lining the road several deep in places... then with about 2km to go you crest the top of the mountain, and then you're riding with no fans, no barriers, down a hillside in the middle of nowhere to the finish. Very, very bizarre.



Been up the Xorret the last two years, ain't that sumptin'? That 14% descent after the summit. If you ride over from Alcoy, I feel the Xorret is in the top 5 GT climbs I've seen. It has it's 20%+ sections on the way up, too and no rests.

 

[no crostis no party]

How would I know? They both look absurdly difficult. Is there anyone on this forum that have done both? If so, I salute you, and hope to hear of your experience.

The day before the 2009 race, I went up Angrilu in a heavy rain. Started raining as I stepped out of my car in La Vega, rained harder all the way up. Used a 39-27 gear. No stops, except when my foot came off pedal on the hard part. I had to clip in one side, lean on the rock, clip in other foot to get started again! That section is called 23.5%. At the bottom back in La Vega, I ordered a glass of wine and a donut. A guy offered to pay for it, and we talked. He was/is Checu Rubiera's uncle. Obviously he's a local Asturian, and said that section is really 27% but they don't claim it to keep UCI from not allowing it.

2010 Giro, I did the Zoncolan, 34-27 gear. (my mechanic convinced me to drop to the compact). Again, no stops; but easier gear.

I voted them equally difficult.

Zoncolan from Priola is/may be, way harder than from Sutrio, and may be harder than from Ovaro. This year I went up Z. from Sutrio on race day, and was told by local lady that Priola is the hardest way up. I'll have to wait to find that out. I had to leave area before I could try it. This lady said locals want to try to get the Giro to use Priola, which is just 2-3 k south of Sutrio, fyi.

 

[icefire]

Above the Sierra Nevada ski station (village) is Pico Veleta, @ 3498 meters. Climbing from Granada over the Monachil/El Purche, is about 35 k (guess-I don't use a computer). The road turns to shale path at @ 3345 meters. Not that difficult overall insofar as steepness goes, excepting the hard parts of El Purche, which has 18-22% grade or two.

The highest mountain in the Iberian Peninsula is Mount Mulhacen @ 3478 m in Sierra Nevada. Next comes Mount Aneto @ 3404 m in the Pyrenees. Mount Veleta is third @ 3378 m. Your numbers seem to be wrong in excess by 100 m approx.

 

[no crostis no party]

1 Zoncolan

2 Crostis

3 Finnestre

4 Zoncolan (Sutrio)

5 Angirilu.

Crostis, not that hard; very steady @ 10-11% for about 11 k; then in the 12-13% range for the last 3 k. It's mostly in the woods and a bit boring, but there are not any rest spots and you are certainly tired at the top. Not fierce like Z. or Angirlu, and not a 20k climb like Finestre. It would have been incredible this year if the boys could have done Crostis then Zoncolan.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I actually saw several very steep cobbled climbs in Warsaw old town and as a cycling fan my first thought is obviously "Why dont they use this in the TDP".

Of course they want the first few stages to be for sprinters unfortunately.

Regretfully races dont really want to use cobbles outside of the February- April period.

A real shame imo.

I think a few of them have been used in May, in the Course de la Paix, of course. Same goes for the awesome Steiler Wand von Meerane in Saxony. I was thinking more about the climbs on the Czech-Polish border, some of which get very steep.

 

[no crostis no party]

The highest mountain in the Iberian Peninsula is Mount Mulhacen @ 3478 m in Sierra Nevada. Next comes Mount Aneto @ 3404 m in the Pyrenees. Mount Veleta is third @ 3378 m. Your numbers seem to be wrong in excess by 100 m approx.

There's no road to Mulhacen. Also I wasn't claiming it's the highest, only up there. Mulhacen is about 5 k from Veleta, you can see it from there, but you can't ride to it.

 

[no crostis no party]

The highest mountain in the Iberian Peninsula is Mount Mulhacen @ 3478 m in Sierra Nevada. Next comes Mount Aneto @ 3404 m in the Pyrenees. Mount Veleta is third @ 3378 m. Your numbers seem to be wrong in excess by 100 m approx.

Apology: Pico Veleta is only 3398, not 3498. Per Google. Thanks,

 

[gregrowlerson]

I voted for the Zonc, but very much looking forward to stage 15 of this years Vuelta.

Hope that Crostis doesn't get lost to the Giro. I suggest an ITT up it if they reckon the descent is too dangerous - or just a MTF, then have the ITT up Zoncolan the following day.

Is there any way that it is reasonably possible (geographically speaking) for one of these REALLY steep climbs mentioned in this thread can be included in the Tour De France? Like the Giro is going to include Alp du'ez next year, though I don't see much point in that.

 

[craig1985]

Hitch, you're every bit as much of a Zonc fanboy as the Spanish supporting the Angliru. Of course national pride comes into it. Contador said Angliru was harder, Simoni said Zoncolán was harder. I know you were just trolling when you said Zoncolan via Sutrio is harder.

Craig - the Nebelhorn is likely an impossibility to include. They could however use the Fellhorn on the other side of Oberstdorf - that's 9km @ 9,7% climbing to the Bergstation, which is plenty tough enough (though the Deutschlandtour definitely needs to come back, there's a lot of great climbs in the Schwarzwald to use, like Oppenauer Steige and Kandel, in addition to the handful of alpine climbs).

Bavarianrider - why post Nebelhorn? I thought that all climbs were equal in difficulty as long as they had the same altitude gain and so therefore that climb (1089m vertical at an average of 14%) is less difficult than the Parador del Condor (1143m vertical at an average if 3,3%)?

Also, speaking of the Deutschlandtour, I submit this one for your consideration, though it is of course in Austria:

When climbing all the way to the top (the Deutschlandtour used to stop at 2670m iirc) that's 13,3km @ 10,7%, which makes it longer than either, and steeper on average than Angliru. Even in the shorter version used in the Deutschlandtour it was 12,4km @ just a touch over 10%. But, crucially, notice the altitude, being 1000m higher than either Zoncolan or Anglirú.

That would be good for the Tour of Austria if they bothered to mix it up every now and then. Seriously, they have to be the laziest race route organizer's out there, just keep sticking with the previous year's route.

 

[The Hitch]

I voted for the Zonc, but very much looking forward to stage 15 of this years Vuelta.

Hope that Crostis doesn't get lost to the Giro. I suggest an ITT up it if they reckon the descent is too dangerous - or just a MTF, then have the ITT up Zoncolan the following day.

Is there any way that it is reasonably possible (geographically speaking) for one of these REALLY steep climbs mentioned in this thread can be included in the Tour De France? Like the Giro is going to include Alp du'ez next year, though I don't see much point in that.

TDF goes over Sestrieres all the time which is right next to Colle delle Finestre (both Finestre stages have ended on Sestrieres).

In fact they can see it right next to them as they go down Sestrieres.

Zoncolan however is on the other side of the country as is Crostis obviously, about 600km straight line, so as the italians say, forget about it.

Mortirolo Gavia etc are not to far away fron Zoncolan either so you would need about 2 stages in Italy including transfers just to get there.


While the Tour has gone into Spain, on many occasions, I dont think it has ever gone as far as Asturias, where Angiliru is. Again around 600km.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Is there any way that it is reasonably possible (geographically speaking) for one of these REALLY steep climbs mentioned in this thread can be included in the Tour De France? Like the Giro is going to include Alp du'ez next year, though I don't see much point in that.

France already has some really steep climbs that it just doesn't use - Mont du Chat is 14km @ 8,9%, and Errozate is 10,1km @ 9,6%.

That would be good for the Tour of Austria if they bothered to mix it up every now and then. Seriously, they have to be the laziest race route organizer's out there, just keep sticking with the previous year's route.

Yes, unfortunately the love affair with ending in Vienna means they always go west-east, start with a pointless sprint stage on the only flat roads around Dornbirn, then straight over to Kitzbühel, going straight past a lot of Austria's best roads. And if they don't want to MTF Großglockner they could at least head on past Lienz and do the Naßfeldpass/Passo di Pramollo (11,2km @ 8,1%). I just wish one year they'd start in Vienna and put the finish in Klagenfurt, Innsbruck or Salzburg to open up more opportunities. They could always use the Schizentrum Weinebene too - that's about 18-19km @ just over 6% and it's close to Deutschlandsberg so they could put it near to the end of the race if they wanted.

But since the Austrians aren't too bothered about including it, maybe the Italians will be, since it links up quite well with some Italian climbs:

http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/42688812

that's Passo Monte Giovo, Passo Rombo, Rettenbachferner.

 

[craig1985]

Is the top of Mont du Chat and Errozate big enough to hold a stage finish in the TDF? How would you make an interestung stage to finish on the Mont du Chat?