Andy Schleck and dope

[Dear Wiggo]

Let me catch you up here.

We don't discuss super responders anymore.

In this new era of clean cycling, we have crazy adaptive physiology.

Good grief, thank you. I wasn't the only one looking on in disbelief as the Ministry of Peace announced that we were in fact at war with physiology and whether it was adaptive or not, and that doping had in fact never been an ally for the winningest riders of all time.

 

[glassmoon]

based on the results... well Andy is definitely clean

 

[ppanther1]

Little Schleck is hilarious.
A product of Riis and Andersen.

Frank was the lucky brother in the family, but chemicals changed that.

I really don't think thats the case. Do i think he dopes? Yes i do.

But he was always outstanding as junior and he did exceptional well in his first pro years with 19, 20. (before the 2nd in Giro)

In my opinion he is a huge talent and his struggling has more to do with his mind.

 

[Ferminal]

You do realise that he was probably the most doped he has ever been in that Giro? Check his first two years as a pro for his abilities without a top shelf program. He was probably involved in some form of doping from his mid teens.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

You do realise that he was probably the most doped he has ever been in that Giro? Check his first two years as a pro for his abilities without a top shelf program. He was probably involved in some form of doping from his mid teens.

Isn't Riis good mates with Schleck senior?

 

[zigmeister]

Former doper. Clearly after he and Franks amazing finish at the TDF, where Cont gets popped, they lay off the gear. Several years of high level top results to back of pack finishers.

Classic pattern.

 

[MBotero]

I really don't think thats the case. Do i think he dopes? Yes i do.

But he was always outstanding as junior and he did exceptional well in his first pro years with 19, 20. (before the 2nd in Giro)

In my opinion he is a huge talent and his struggling has more to do with his mind.

This huge talent thing,i think is hard to evaluate these days.

 

[hrotha]

Former doper. Clearly after he and Franks amazing finish at the TDF, where Cont gets popped, they lay off the gear. Several years of high level top results to back of pack finishers.

Classic pattern.

You make the classic mistake of lumping Andy and Fränk together.

 

[ppanther1]

You do realise that he was probably the most doped he has ever been in that Giro? Check his first two years as a pro for his abilities without a top shelf program. He was probably involved in some form of doping from his mid teens.

Thats why i wrote BEFORE the Giro. Anyhow, scoring around 200 cq points at the age of 19 is very strong. Name me a few riders that were that strong being so young.

The mid teens thing. I don't know. Maybe. But i like to believe in strong juniors more than in riders suddenly appearing on the scene. And it can't be denied his results have always been exceptional well considering his age.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Right now i think the doping would be looking pretty attractive option to Andy

 

[IzzyStradlin]

So what really is Andy's problem? I have seen whispers around the web that he "needs help". More than just going off PEDs? Something to do with the drinking stories? Conflict in the Trek camp? Just a weirdo?

 

[SeriousSam]

the variation in his performance is probably a combination of reduced doping, not giving a damn in training, shaken confidence, not giving a damn in races, a whole host of other stuff

fun exercise: what would the odds have been in 2010 that Chris Froome would be light years ahead of Andy Schleck as a GT rider in 2012, 13, 14? the change of fortunes is incredible

 

[PunchingRouleur]

One of most obvious dopers, that superpeaks, thanks to Frank probably fully charged already in teens, Riis....

Its just impossible for rider supposedly mega super talented have such a garbage base level.

Great example of CRAP.

Glorified not caught Thomas Dekker.

 

[IndianCyclist]

One of most obvious dopers, that superpeaks, thanks to Frank probably fully charged already in teens, Riis....

Its just impossible for rider supposedly mega super talented have such a garbage base level.

Great example of CRAP.

Glorified not caught Thomas Dekker.

Well Popo was also 3rd in Giro & then garbage. Also Peter Velits
Yet if Andy's talent is dope related, it is just impossible for him to drop so low unless he completely stopped doping. As far as dopers are concerned, once a doper always a doper demonstrated by the shining example of Di Luca. Doping make it pretty easier to train and gain form. Which is why his drop in performance is kind of inexplicable.

 

[Escarabajo]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/andy-schleck-not-ready-to-give-up-on-cycling

...

So that's why he sucks:

Schleck’s brother Fränk returned to racing this season after a yearlong ban for the diuretic Xipamide, but Andy denied that he had ever been involved in doping, adding that he believed that anti-doping measures are "more effective" now. “I gave a lot to the Tour and I have never hurt the bike. I’ve never done crap, unlike others,” Schleck said. “Guys like (Riccardo) Riccò and (Danilo) Di Luca did stupid things and they may encounter problems later, because they only have the bike in their lives.”

 

[SundayRider]

the variation in his performance is probably a combination of reduced doping, not giving a damn in training, shaken confidence, not giving a damn in races, a whole host of other stuff

fun exercise: what would the odds have been in 2010 that Chris Froome would be light years ahead of Andy Schleck as a GT rider in 2012, 13, 14? the change of fortunes is incredible

Lots of cycling fans won't have even heard of CF in 2010!

 

[hrotha]

Like in the case of Cobo, I seriously doubt dope/no dope tells the whole story.

 

[blackcat]

One of most obvious dopers, that superpeaks, thanks to Frank probably fully charged already in teens, Riis....

Its just impossible for rider supposedly mega super talented have such a garbage base level.

Great example of CRAP.

Glorified not caught Thomas Dekker.

VC Roubaix Cyrille Guimard


*reputation for young teenage andy

 

[lllludo]

the variation in his performance is probably a combination of reduced doping, not giving a damn in training, shaken confidence, not giving a damn in races, a whole host of other stuff

I agree + position on the bike is not the same since his fall
However in 2005 he was only 19 and could follow Voeckler, Fedrigo, Gerdemann, Moreau on the queen stage of 4 jours de Dunkerque.
For sure he certainly used PEDs or transfusions to follow DiLuca in the Giro 2 years later. But doped to the gills to race the 4JDD when 19 I don't know...
How do we know he was a doper since teenage ??

 

[jens_attacks]

I agree + position on the bike is not the same since his fall
However in 2005 he was only 19 and could follow Voeckler, Fedrigo, Gerdemann, Moreau on the queen stage of 4 jours de Dunkerque.
For sure he certainly used PEDs or transfusions to follow DiLuca in the Giro 2 years later. But doped to the gills to race the 4JDD when 19 I don't know...
How do we know he was a doper since teenage ??

there was discussions years ago on some forums(luxembourg?) where a guy said he rode as a junior in luxembourg and that andy was in a serious,heavy program already at that time. possible with the help of his dad
still believe that in order to podium giro at 21 you gotta have genetics on your side. if he'd train again as a pro and live like a pro, he will probably do the same numbers. with him, it's a matter of psychology

 

[movingtarget]

the variation in his performance is probably a combination of reduced doping, not giving a damn in training, shaken confidence, not giving a damn in races, a whole host of other stuff

fun exercise: what would the odds have been in 2010 that Chris Froome would be light years ahead of Andy Schleck as a GT rider in 2012, 13, 14? the change of fortunes is incredible

I also think there is an element of truth in the fact that he lost the 2011 Tour to Evans and has not been the same since. Most people did not even consider Evans before the race even though his form that year was good but his previous Tours always showed weaknesses. I really think Schleck thought it was simply going to be a battle between himself and Contador. Interviews before the Tour confirmed that, he mentioned his rivals for the race and Evans was never mentioned.

After winning the 2010 Tour on paper, he really wanted the validation of winning in 2011. Even though he said kind words about Evans after the race, I think psychologically, losing the race plus his problems with injuries and maybe changing his chemical intake have taken the wind out of his sails. He may not even make the team for the Tour. His career is in tatters at the moment and who will sign him as a team leader when his contract expires ? He is Pro Continental level at the moment.

 

[lllludo]

I also think there is an element of truth in the fact that he lost the 2011 Tour to Evans and has not been the same since. Interviews before the Tour confirmed that, he mentioned his rivals for the race and Evans was never mentioned.

After winning the 2010 Tour on paper, he really wanted the validation of winning in 2011. Even though he said kind words about Evans after the race, I think psychologically, losing the race plus his problems with injuries and maybe changing his chemical intake have taken the wind out of his sails. He may not even make the team for the Tour. His career is in tatters at the moment and who will sign him as a team leader when his contract expires ? He is Pro Continental level at the moment.

I think Andy must sign for team SKY next year because it would be a win-win situation for both of them.
Brailsford like to recruit grupetto fodder or pro continental level guys to transform them into superstars + he will have vacancy with the departure of Wiggins + their success stories need a bigger come-back story than Mick Rogers.
For Andy it would change his chemical intake for the best and SKY's shrink would remove the chip on his shoulder aka Cadel Evans.

Thanks Jens attack for your answer. Another guy also reported they had seen a 14 year old Andy climbing Ventoux full gas with adults....

 

[del1962]

Everyone is so serious with the food, with the nutrition, with just everything around it. It is a lot more complex than it was seven, eight years before.

Interesting quote from interview with Shane Stokes, no qustions about doping (I thought he was a hard hitting journalist)

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/06/andy-schleck-interview-the-criticism-is-sometimes-a-big-issue/

 

[del1962]

I can't believe the Schleck quote. Hamilton's biography quite clearly outlines that there had been an obsession with food as early as the 90s.

You better ask Shane Stokes if he said it or not

 

[PunchingRouleur]

Would not surprise me if a reason for Andy performances after 2011 was letter from UCI, especially after Frank problems.