Are you a vegetarian? Or have you ever been one? How do you feel it affected your training and athletic performance?
ElChingon said:Any example of what foods you eat? What us use for high carbs, fats, protein.
Some of us dabble at eating Vegi. but fail due to lack of ideas at times.
tashimi76 said:No, I tried it when I was younger but cannot digest a lot of the vegetarian protein sources properly. It just made me sick. I don't agree that everyone can be vegetarian, I think different people need different things. Steak is part of my race preparation foods.
Tapeworm said:Really? What foods were you trying to eat? Are we talking tofu here, or all types of non-meat protein? And how long did you try to stick to the diet?
Alpe d'Huez said:Are you a vegetarian? Or have you ever been one? How do you feel it affected your training and athletic performance?
Well, anecdotally speaking, if you look at the strongest climbers, they have very little "muscle".lostintime said:This is always kind of an odd subject..... categorizing your food intake. I eat what I need to these days, after much trial and error. In the past, I have eaten no animal products for long periods multiple times, but I would get run down..... fatigued. I'd lose weight I didn't need to lose. Muscle. I'd really notice it uphill..... some core energy was missing. I need some animal protein. Many minds assume when one says I eat animal protein..... it means you eat a pound of meat a day, or drink a quart of milk a day. I use it as a supplement to fruits, vegetables, grains, nuts/seeds etc. , just enough that I feel balanced. The world's a fruit basket .... and I've learned not to let my minds belief's stop me from eating what I need.
Good grief... Plants don't have a nervous system. They are not conscious. You cannot compare pulling a carrot from the ground to the killing of a cow or pig or chicken, who looks you in the eye and screams and fights desperately for their final moments.I find it ironic that anti-meat vegetarians who speak of the inhumane killing of animals forget that plants are alive too, they have energy and consciousness. Think about that the next time your harvesting your vegetables. Ayurveda regards the giving of milk by the cows one of the most sacred gifts of the animal kingdom. The only pure way to know how your food was cared for in growing and harvesting is to grow it all yourself, otherwise it's a paper protest.
You know who needs to avoid soy? People with soy sensitivities.Many minds also assume if you eat vegetarian, you eat lots of soy products. I've done all forms of soy.... and it isn't for me, except Miso and Tempeh, which are both fermented. Soy is no wonder food,and not necessarily good for you, but in moderation you're not going to croak though. Read this about Soy. The Weston A . Price foundation , as far as I know, are quite reputable, but to each their own. http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/index.html
Then don't eat it! Sounds like you might have a sensitivity. See a dietitian and confirm if you have a sensitivity. If you do, then don't eat it.All I know is I feel like he!! from eating lots of soy. Weakness, digestive upsets and a vague feeling of something is just off.
Vegan Dave said:Hi all, long-time (18+yrs) vegan here, no surprise.
Works great for me, i ride and race plenty fast and feel great doing it.
I'm wondering if there's any mechanism in the human body to detect animal protein? For example, if someone were to be given capsules of whey protein and some vegetable protein, would they be able to distinguish the two? Unlikely.... I think this talk of 'needing' animal protein is bunk.
As well, i don't know what the concern here is with protein. Does anyone here actually know how much you need? (Answer: 0.4-0.8g/kg, according to WHO, ADA, and virtually any health organization.) I'm 160lbs, which is about 72kg. That means, according to any major health authority, i need 28-57g of protein a day.
As a training cyclist, typically consuming over 3,000 calories a day, do you realize how difficult it would be to eat that much and NOT get enough protein..??! Even if i were eating 10% of my calories from protein, which even many fruit are, 300 calories of protein is 75g.
We as cyclists need carbs, and relatively little (10% or less) protein. Carbs fuel our workouts, and more importantly, they fuel our recovery.
Wanted to comment on an item:
Well, anecdotally speaking, if you look at the strongest climbers, they have very little "muscle".
I'm guessing what you're lacking isn't muscle (which couldn't change or be significantly effected in a short amount of time!!), but carbs.
One common mistake of people switching over is not eating enough. Of course, if you're not getting enough carbs (which is easy eating plant-based foods, since there's a lot of filling fiber), you're not going to be able to perform.
Get enough carbs, and i'm sure this problem will vanish.
Good grief... Plants don't have a nervous system. They are not conscious. You cannot compare pulling a carrot from the ground to the killing of a cow or pig or chicken, who looks you in the eye and screams and fights desperately for their final moments.
And even if some broken brains out there can still rationalize this nonsense, cows consume FAR MORE plants than any human ever could, and so by eating animal products, you're sentencing even MORE plants to death than you ever could by eating them directly.
Please, let's never see this subject brought up again.
You know who needs to avoid soy? People with soy sensitivities.
Otherwise, don't eat the same food all the time. It's not asking a lot.
Then don't eat it! Sounds like you might have a sensitivity. See a dietitian and confirm if you have a sensitivity. If you do, then don't eat it.
There are plenty of other fantastic plant foods out there otherwise. No one needs to depend on soy. Especially if you're sensitive to it.
You realize of course that this is from a vegan, and is pointing out the absurdity of your arguments?lostintime said:
Not sure what you're on about here - i'm not feeling threatened, nor can i not conceive plants that feel pain. I can fathom herds of space elephants orbiting the earth, eating satellites, but there is little reason to believe it so.lostintime said:The problem we all have, you and I included.... is when our mind cannot conceive of something as remotely possible, we become threatened. Once threatened..... if one lacks a certain level of consciousness of what's going on..... it's fight or flight. Strike back at the perceived slight.... or run. It's perfectly acceptable in our culture... even expected.
I'm sorry, did i come off as angry? Perhaps a bit, at the ridiculous ideas proposed, and the lack of thought and consideration behind them...like they have never been carelessly tossed out on forums before.Now .... in jest of a popular misconception ..... I thought the meat eaters were supposed to be the angry, aggressive ones? Plant eaters to be the peaceful ones. Is this true? No.
I'm only going with science here, but as far as anyone knows, consciousness in life is dependent on a central nervous system.It is hard for you to believe that a plant has consciousness. That's okay... even expected. Don't put words in my mouth though, I never said nervous system.
It's probably in your head. If i gave you capsules of animal protein, and capsules of plant protein, i doubt you could 'feel' the difference. Placebo has a very real effect, and if you've convinced yourself that you need animal protein, you're going to make yourself ill until you get it.If I feel better with some animal protein, I have my emotional and spiritual as well as physical reasons for it.
Oh, this is helpful. Those who spend their lives studying diet know little, and just because you think that plants have a consciousness, it is the case. Oooookay..It's Dietitian talk, and they don't know all that much.
But these decisions do not remain in our heads, and have consequences.lostintime said:Well Dave, in all honesty ..... are not all our decisions in our head? Somewhere along the line you made a decision to no longer eat animal foods. I made a decision to continue. They both work for many people.
My point was not to eat food from pills, my point is that you said you need, or feel better eating animal protein. I'm providing evidence that this isn't the case, and you confirmed it.Now, if either of us go eating our food from pills..... neither of us are going to live for very long! As I would not be able to tell if a pill was animal or vegetable...... I don't think you'd know either if the protein was made from a cow.
Veganism isn't just a 'diet', as many might refer to it...it's actually a philosophy (at least, it was meant to be, when coined in 1944 by Donald Watson, who soon after founded the Vegan Society). The philosophy is one of peace and respect, with particular attention to the other animals who often suffer at the hands of humans. (I don't wish to make this an issue here in this Forum, so please let's stick to nutritional issues, and not ethical issues.)What I find curious.... is why does one need to declare themselves as a vegan, meat eater or whatever? Do you have to be absolute about it? Many people who eat animal foods go periods without it.... they eat what they need, when they need it. Vegetarianism tends to be more dogmatic.... like there's a set of rules for it. You CAN'T eat animal products. People can feel guilty for "breaking the rules". This too ...... is all in the head.
I doubt that this is what dietitians want to see in hospitals, and hospitals instead choose cheap foods that people want to eat. Just a guess.From my experience with dietitians.... I wonder what are they studying? Hospitals are full of them..... yet they still serve the same crap they did 30 years ago. Lot's of refined foods..... white breads,juices etc. When my parents were in the hospital..... many times they got cans of Ensure. Ensure?...... are you kidding? The real food consisted of sandwiches of lunch meat and white bread, and canned juice. The Dietitian's view of food is still from the 50's .... archaic. They know nothing of the value eating WHOLE foods. I could not believe they are still giving patients such garbage. If anyone deserves real good food, it's someone who has had surgery. I met with a dietitian when I was10. What they were preaching to my parents was the same as it was then.
I'm pretty sure it can. Certainly, we don't know this all know, but it can all be quantified. It started with more obvious things, such as salt...and progressed, with sailors getting scurvy, and finding what was identified as vitamin C to be the cure/preventative aid. The list goes on..Food can't be figured out by science. It can't be narrowed down to vitamins and minerals and such. Science has a very myopic view of food. The cannot see all the factors of how food affects us in infinite ways. They only see what they can measure.
Actually, life IS chemistry. And while it can't all be quantified right now, a fairly big chunk can, and this will only grow. And i would imagine that some day we'll answer the vast majority of nutritional science, if not all of it.Food is life..... and life just can't be put in terms of numbers and chemistry.