Are you a Vegetarian?

[Alpe d'Huez]

Are you a vegetarian? Or have you ever been one? How do you feel it affected your training and athletic performance?

 

[nobrakes]

Yes, and it has actually helped my performance in that I'm much lighter in body weight than before, with better stamina and endurance.
I don't miss red meat one bit, but I have to admit that when I am in foreign countries that don't embrace vegetarian cuisine, I have had to injest meat and it does effect my metabolism by making me feel lethargic.
I believe when most people reach a certain age, eating meat for it's protein has a detrimental effect. As we age, more grains, veggies, less meat has been ideal for me.

 

[Tapeworm]

Life-long vegetarian here. Nil issues with performance if my diet remains healthy (yes you can eat unhealthily as a vego). Basically lots of training and quality training has yielded better results. Unless I stop getting better the vego diets remains!

Right amount of carbs, protein and fat, plenty of fresh vegetables etc.

There is a lot of propaganda that emanates from both pro and anti vego camps but I am yet to see conclusive proof that it is detrimental to performance.

Of course vegans have it harder, but still possible to keep good performance.

 

[ElChingon]

Any example of what foods you eat? What us use for high carbs, fats, protein.

Some of us dabble at eating Vegi. but fail due to lack of ideas at times.

Thanks!

 

[Tapeworm]

Any example of what foods you eat? What us use for high carbs, fats, protein.

Some of us dabble at eating Vegi. but fail due to lack of ideas at times.

Thanks!

Personally I am always amazed at this, but then I have had a lifetime of eating only vego.

So standard day would be along this line:-

Breakfast:
Weetbix and muesli with milk

Breakfast 2:
Coffee and fruit toast

Morning Tea:
Yoghurt/muffin/peanut butter toast/apple

Lunch:
Panini with vegetable fillings (carrot, lettuce, tomato, etc), cheese, chutney / Japanese / home made sandwiches / leftovers

Afternoon tea:
Cheese and crackers

Snacks:
Dried fruit, nuts seeds (trail mix)

Dinner:
Vegetable lasagna / Vegetable stir fry with tofu / Pizza / Japanese (no meat of course) / Pasta with vegetables / Indian / Thai / Vegeburgers.

And dessert of course!

I eat a bit more/less depending on training loads. Bread, rice and pasta are usually what I eat more or less of.

 

[Sheltowee]

Yes and no. During season I abstain from red meat. Fish and chicken occaisionally. Most protein is by way eggs, lentils etc. I have found that red meat is very detrimental somehow? So I am not a vegetarian philosophically or due to health awareness, but because I feel better training and racing by not eating meat.

 

[crispy]

vegan cyclist

I'm not racing these days because my one year old son is keeping me way busy but I've been vegan for many years and I've done a lot of training and racing on a vegan diet in years past. It certainly hasn't affected me negatively and it's probably helped because I weigh a bit less now than I did before I became vegan.

I remember back in my pre-vegan days in college, training hard and being very careful about what I ate trying to lose a few extra pounds before a hilly road race. I think my goal then was to get down to 170 lbs. Now I'll routinely be at 165 with less training and not worrying much about what I eat.

But then I'm vegan now for ethical reasons so regardless of how it affects my racing it's still worth it to me.

 

[cihruueip]

The arrival of the 2008 Olympic Games

The arrival of the 2008 Olympic Games, the杭州搬家公司 Chinese Red popularity worldwide. For example, Gucci introduced the limited edition red, U2 launched a red theme of charity. Hollywood is the "Redskins" appear frequently, a red衬得evaded a drunk American. This momentum of a red, presumably the influx of cars this year will be, but do not know杭州厂房装修 Who is more affected by the red car a favor.

 

[tashimi76]

No, I tried it when I was younger but cannot digest a lot of the vegetarian protein sources properly. It just made me sick. I don't agree that everyone can be vegetarian, I think different people need different things. Steak is part of my race preparation foods.

 

[Tapeworm]

No, I tried it when I was younger but cannot digest a lot of the vegetarian protein sources properly. It just made me sick. I don't agree that everyone can be vegetarian, I think different people need different things. Steak is part of my race preparation foods.

Really? What foods were you trying to eat? Are we talking tofu here, or all types of non-meat protein? And how long did you try to stick to the diet?

 

[mr. tibbs]

I'm a veggie-lacto-ovarian (veggies, dairy, and eggs).

My diest is typically:

Breakfast: Fried egg, over medium, w/ toast & coffee or two biscuits w/ coffee

Lunch: veggie or peanut butter sandwiches x 2 with an apple or granola bar or whatever

Dinner: Pretty much anything w/out meat (and w/ beer)

Snacks: Whatever's lying around

Protein sources that give an athlete what they need can be tough to find if you have trouble with certain foods. Cheese is a complete protein, but dairy can be real pain for some folks. Rice and beans together also make a complete protein, but beans...'nuff said. And tofu can be tough on people, too. There's always eggs, I guess.

 

[mr. tibbs]

Oops, forgot to address the original question:

I don't know if it has negatively impacted my performance or not. I can handle most non-meat protein sources, so I imagine it's allright, but who knows?

I know there have been some world class vegetarian atheletes in the past, such as:

Carl Lewis (SI Olympian of the Century)
Scott Jurek (ultra-marathoner)
Chris Evert (tennis)
Ricky Williams (NFL)
Mac Danzig (ultimate fighting champ [?])
Raja Bell and Salim Stoudamire (NBA)
Keith Holmes (boxer), and, amazingly,
Bill Pearl (1971 Mr. Universe)

That last one really blows people away whenever I mention it. Dude won the ultimate body building competition w/out meat.

Disclaimer: Not crusading for vegetarianism here. To each their own--I have no problem with people enjoying meat.

 

[tashimi76]

Really? What foods were you trying to eat? Are we talking tofu here, or all types of non-meat protein? And how long did you try to stick to the diet?

Only just noticed, sorry. I can't eat any pulses/lentils/beans, most grains, and have to be careful with dairy, (also apples and onions!). I also don't do peanuts (not allergic - just hate the taste). I can eat tofu. Now I pretty much tend to stick to meat/tofu and vegetables for most meals or carbs that I can eat like rice. I probably tried for about 6 months or so when I first became a buddhist (so I was pretty keen to make it work). I understand that the Dalai Lama is another unsuccessful vegetarian - so again another person who would have a vested interest in trying hard to make it work.

I wasn't really doing much exercise when I tried it so can't imagine I'd last as long as I did if I was doing what I do now. Even now I don't eat meat every day though. I think I really just like vegetables!

 

[lostintime]

Are you a vegetarian? Or have you ever been one? How do you feel it affected your training and athletic performance?

This is always kind of an odd subject..... categorizing your food intake. I eat what I need to these days, after much trial and error. In the past, I have eaten no animal products for long periods multiple times, but I would get run down..... fatigued. I'd lose weight I didn't need to lose. Muscle. I'd really notice it uphill..... some core energy was missing. I need some animal protein. Many minds assume when one says I eat animal protein..... it means you eat a pound of meat a day, or drink a quart of milk a day. I use it as a supplement to fruits, vegetables, grains, nuts/seeds etc. , just enough that I feel balanced. The world's a fruit basket .... and I've learned not to let my minds belief's stop me from eating what I need.

I find it ironic that anti-meat vegetarians who speak of the inhumane killing of animals forget that plants are alive too, they have energy and consciousness. Think about that the next time your harvesting your vegetables. Ayurveda regards the giving of milk by the cows one of the most sacred gifts of the animal kingdom. The only pure way to know how your food was cared for in growing and harvesting is to grow it all yourself, otherwise it's a paper protest.

I obsessed with nutrition for a long time.....I taught myself as much as I could find to learn. Now I try to forget much of it..... but it never completely leaves. Which is good, because now I know when someone is just blowing smoke up the you-know-what when it comes telling people how they should eat. It's trial and error, and our own personal responsibility to find what works for us as adults.


Many minds also assume if you eat vegetarian, you eat lots of soy products. I've done all forms of soy.... and it isn't for me, except Miso and Tempeh, which are both fermented. Soy is no wonder food,and not necessarily good for you, but in moderation you're not going to croak though. Read this about Soy. The Weston A . Price foundation , as far as I know, are quite reputable, but to each their own. http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/index.html


All I know is I feel like he!! from eating lots of soy. Weakness, digestive upsets and a vague feeling of something is just off.

I eat many meals without animal products(or soy) today. There are no absolutes though.... eat what you need, your body knows.

 

[lookkg386]

Interesting thread, I am not vegeterian but many I train with are so it does come up in conversation, have toyed with idea but never been fully commited, always felt my energy levels and therfore my performance would suffer - but seems to be the opposite!

 

[BroDeal]

If people were meant to be vegetarians, animals would not taste so good.

 

[Vegan Dave]

Hi all, long-time (18+yrs) vegan here, no surprise.

Works great for me, i ride and race plenty fast and feel great doing it.

I'm wondering if there's any mechanism in the human body to detect animal protein? For example, if someone were to be given capsules of whey protein and some vegetable protein, would they be able to distinguish the two? Unlikely.... I think this talk of 'needing' animal protein is bunk.

As well, i don't know what the concern here is with protein. Does anyone here actually know how much you need? (Answer: 0.4-0.8g/kg, according to WHO, ADA, and virtually any health organization.) I'm 160lbs, which is about 72kg. That means, according to any major health authority, i need 28-57g of protein a day.

As a training cyclist, typically consuming over 3,000 calories a day, do you realize how difficult it would be to eat that much and NOT get enough protein..??! Even if i were eating 10% of my calories from protein, which even many fruit are, 300 calories of protein is 75g.

We as cyclists need carbs, and relatively little (10% or less) protein. Carbs fuel our workouts, and more importantly, they fuel our recovery.

Wanted to comment on an item:

This is always kind of an odd subject..... categorizing your food intake. I eat what I need to these days, after much trial and error. In the past, I have eaten no animal products for long periods multiple times, but I would get run down..... fatigued. I'd lose weight I didn't need to lose. Muscle. I'd really notice it uphill..... some core energy was missing. I need some animal protein. Many minds assume when one says I eat animal protein..... it means you eat a pound of meat a day, or drink a quart of milk a day. I use it as a supplement to fruits, vegetables, grains, nuts/seeds etc. , just enough that I feel balanced. The world's a fruit basket .... and I've learned not to let my minds belief's stop me from eating what I need.

Well, anecdotally speaking, if you look at the strongest climbers, they have very little "muscle".

I'm guessing what you're lacking isn't muscle (which couldn't change or be significantly effected in a short amount of time!!), but carbs.

One common mistake of people switching over is not eating enough. Of course, if you're not getting enough carbs (which is easy eating plant-based foods, since there's a lot of filling fiber), you're not going to be able to perform.

Get enough carbs, and i'm sure this problem will vanish.

I find it ironic that anti-meat vegetarians who speak of the inhumane killing of animals forget that plants are alive too, they have energy and consciousness. Think about that the next time your harvesting your vegetables. Ayurveda regards the giving of milk by the cows one of the most sacred gifts of the animal kingdom. The only pure way to know how your food was cared for in growing and harvesting is to grow it all yourself, otherwise it's a paper protest.

Good grief... Plants don't have a nervous system. They are not conscious. You cannot compare pulling a carrot from the ground to the killing of a cow or pig or chicken, who looks you in the eye and screams and fights desperately for their final moments.

And even if some broken brains out there can still rationalize this nonsense, cows consume FAR MORE plants than any human ever could, and so by eating animal products, you're sentencing even MORE plants to death than you ever could by eating them directly.

Please, let's never see this subject brought up again.

Many minds also assume if you eat vegetarian, you eat lots of soy products. I've done all forms of soy.... and it isn't for me, except Miso and Tempeh, which are both fermented. Soy is no wonder food,and not necessarily good for you, but in moderation you're not going to croak though. Read this about Soy. The Weston A . Price foundation , as far as I know, are quite reputable, but to each their own. http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/index.html

You know who needs to avoid soy? People with soy sensitivities.

Otherwise, don't eat the same food all the time. It's not asking a lot.

All I know is I feel like he!! from eating lots of soy. Weakness, digestive upsets and a vague feeling of something is just off.

Then don't eat it! Sounds like you might have a sensitivity. See a dietitian and confirm if you have a sensitivity. If you do, then don't eat it.

There are plenty of other fantastic plant foods out there otherwise. No one needs to depend on soy. Especially if you're sensitive to it.

 

[lostintime]

Hi all, long-time (18+yrs) vegan here, no surprise.

Works great for me, i ride and race plenty fast and feel great doing it.

I'm wondering if there's any mechanism in the human body to detect animal protein? For example, if someone were to be given capsules of whey protein and some vegetable protein, would they be able to distinguish the two? Unlikely.... I think this talk of 'needing' animal protein is bunk.

As well, i don't know what the concern here is with protein. Does anyone here actually know how much you need? (Answer: 0.4-0.8g/kg, according to WHO, ADA, and virtually any health organization.) I'm 160lbs, which is about 72kg. That means, according to any major health authority, i need 28-57g of protein a day.

As a training cyclist, typically consuming over 3,000 calories a day, do you realize how difficult it would be to eat that much and NOT get enough protein..??! Even if i were eating 10% of my calories from protein, which even many fruit are, 300 calories of protein is 75g.

We as cyclists need carbs, and relatively little (10% or less) protein. Carbs fuel our workouts, and more importantly, they fuel our recovery.

Wanted to comment on an item:

Well, anecdotally speaking, if you look at the strongest climbers, they have very little "muscle".

I'm guessing what you're lacking isn't muscle (which couldn't change or be significantly effected in a short amount of time!!), but carbs.

One common mistake of people switching over is not eating enough. Of course, if you're not getting enough carbs (which is easy eating plant-based foods, since there's a lot of filling fiber), you're not going to be able to perform.

Get enough carbs, and i'm sure this problem will vanish.

Good grief... Plants don't have a nervous system. They are not conscious. You cannot compare pulling a carrot from the ground to the killing of a cow or pig or chicken, who looks you in the eye and screams and fights desperately for their final moments.

And even if some broken brains out there can still rationalize this nonsense, cows consume FAR MORE plants than any human ever could, and so by eating animal products, you're sentencing even MORE plants to death than you ever could by eating them directly.

Please, let's never see this subject brought up again.

You know who needs to avoid soy? People with soy sensitivities.

Otherwise, don't eat the same food all the time. It's not asking a lot.

Then don't eat it! Sounds like you might have a sensitivity. See a dietitian and confirm if you have a sensitivity. If you do, then don't eat it.

There are plenty of other fantastic plant foods out there otherwise. No one needs to depend on soy. Especially if you're sensitive to it.

The problem we all have, you and I included.... is when our mind cannot conceive of something as remotely possible, we become threatened. Once threatened..... if one lacks a certain level of consciousness of what's going on..... it's fight or flight. Strike back at the perceived slight.... or run. It's perfectly acceptable in our culture... even expected.

Now .... in jest of a popular misconception ..... I thought the meat eaters were supposed to be the angry, aggressive ones? Plant eaters to be the peaceful ones. Is this true? No.

It is hard for you to believe that a plant has consciousness. That's okay... even expected. Don't put words in my mouth though, I never said nervous system. Duh. Just as with animals.... plants can be docile, aggressive, and everywhere in between. Plants are often treated with disdain and violence from humans too, yet it's still okay to eat those? There's a certain hypocrisy there. Just because one can't sense something with our rather limited human senses, does not mean it does not exist. Can you sense the atoms that make up your body, for instance?

We eat food that satisfies us. What about it is so satisfying? The taste, texture, aroma, temperature or what? Why does food prepared by a loved one taste so good compared to other? We can't measure it, but we know it's there. Food feeds not only our bodies, but also our mind and spirit. There is no science to it, it's a mystery why we choose the foods we do. If I feel better with some animal protein, I have my emotional and spiritual as well as physical reasons for it. Each of us does. To knock someone for their choice of eating animal or vegetable or any combination shows a limited view of oneself and the world we live in. (not a personal knock, as we've all done it)

BTW, just because I do not like most soy products does not mean I'm "sensitive" to soy. It's Dietitian talk, and they don't know all that much. I consume Miso all the time, it's a real favorite. I also like small amounts of Tempeh. They're the same ones who say if you eats beans enough, your body will adapt and you won't fart. It's been 4 plus decades and I'm still waiting!

Why am I bothering writing all this? ........ Maybe the consciousness of that cow I ate, and the milk I consumed for dinner influenced me to care for fellow human beings.... and not just berate them because they don't think or believe as I do.

 

[lostintime]

Check this out to illustrate the "my way is the right way" baloney of the so called "meat eaters" vs. "vegetarians" .

It sums it up fairly well.

http://www.vegetus.org/essay/plants.htm

 

[Vegan Dave]

Check this out to illustrate the "my way is the right way" baloney of the so called "meat eaters" vs. "vegetarians" .

It sums it up fairly well.

http://www.vegetus.org/essay/plants.htm

You realize of course that this is from a vegan, and is pointing out the absurdity of your arguments?

"Meat eaters raise the plant question not because it is an indictment of veganism, but rather to deflect attention from their own shame caused by eating animals"

And concludes we should be vegan foragers. Is that what you want?

 

[Vegan Dave]

Hey again, lostintime,

The problem we all have, you and I included.... is when our mind cannot conceive of something as remotely possible, we become threatened. Once threatened..... if one lacks a certain level of consciousness of what's going on..... it's fight or flight. Strike back at the perceived slight.... or run. It's perfectly acceptable in our culture... even expected.

Not sure what you're on about here - i'm not feeling threatened, nor can i not conceive plants that feel pain. I can fathom herds of space elephants orbiting the earth, eating satellites, but there is little reason to believe it so.

Now .... in jest of a popular misconception ..... I thought the meat eaters were supposed to be the angry, aggressive ones? Plant eaters to be the peaceful ones. Is this true? No.

I'm sorry, did i come off as angry? Perhaps a bit, at the ridiculous ideas proposed, and the lack of thought and consideration behind them...like they have never been carelessly tossed out on forums before.

It is hard for you to believe that a plant has consciousness. That's okay... even expected. Don't put words in my mouth though, I never said nervous system.

I'm only going with science here, but as far as anyone knows, consciousness in life is dependent on a central nervous system.

How many humans without a functioning central nervous system have demonstrated any degree of consciousness?

Sure, we can discuss the ideas in your head, and the heads of others, but these ideas are simply that, and it's not at all unreasonable for me to point this out.

If you want to believe plants have consciousness, go for it. Become a frugrivore and eat only fruit. I would not complain an iota. Don't expect me to go along with it because you want to think that way, without any evidence.

If we can step into intellectual honesty here, let's not forget that animals clearly DO have a consciousness, and i'm doing all i can to relieve the burden on them from my fellow species. Let's focus on them until we have concrete evidence on plants, and then take it from there.

If I feel better with some animal protein, I have my emotional and spiritual as well as physical reasons for it.

It's probably in your head. If i gave you capsules of animal protein, and capsules of plant protein, i doubt you could 'feel' the difference. Placebo has a very real effect, and if you've convinced yourself that you need animal protein, you're going to make yourself ill until you get it.

It's Dietitian talk, and they don't know all that much.

Oh, this is helpful. Those who spend their lives studying diet know little, and just because you think that plants have a consciousness, it is the case. Oooookay..

Science is bad, let's just see how we *feel* and make up the facts from there. Right on!!!

 

[lostintime]

Well Dave, in all honesty ..... are not all our decisions in our head? Somewhere along the line you made a decision to no longer eat animal foods. I made a decision to continue. They both work for many people.

Now, if either of us go eating our food from pills..... neither of us are going to live for very long! As I would not be able to tell if a pill was animal or vegetable...... I don't think you'd know either if the protein was made from a cow.

As I said, there are a whole host of reasons why we eat why we eat. No one should have to justify it.

What I find curious.... is why does one need to declare themselves as a vegan, meat eater or whatever? Do you have to be absolute about it? Many people who eat animal foods go periods without it.... they eat what they need, when they need it. Vegetarianism tends to be more dogmatic.... like there's a set of rules for it. You CAN'T eat animal products. People can feel guilty for "breaking the rules". This too ...... is all in the head.

From my experience with dietitians.... I wonder what are they studying? Hospitals are full of them..... yet they still serve the same crap they did 30 years ago. Lot's of refined foods..... white breads,juices etc. When my parents were in the hospital..... many times they got cans of Ensure. Ensure?...... are you kidding? The real food consisted of sandwiches of lunch meat and white bread, and canned juice. The Dietitian's view of food is still from the 50's .... archaic. They know nothing of the value eating WHOLE foods. I could not believe they are still giving patients such garbage. If anyone deserves real good food, it's someone who has had surgery. I met with a dietitian when I was10. What they were preaching to my parents was the same as it was then.


Food can't be figured out by science. It can't be narrowed down to vitamins and minerals and such. Science has a very myopic view of food. The cannot see all the factors of how food affects us in infinite ways. They only see what they can measure.

Food is life..... and life just can't be put in terms of numbers and chemistry.

 

[Vegan Dave]

Hey again,

Well Dave, in all honesty ..... are not all our decisions in our head? Somewhere along the line you made a decision to no longer eat animal foods. I made a decision to continue. They both work for many people.

But these decisions do not remain in our heads, and have consequences.

Now, if either of us go eating our food from pills..... neither of us are going to live for very long! As I would not be able to tell if a pill was animal or vegetable...... I don't think you'd know either if the protein was made from a cow.

My point was not to eat food from pills, my point is that you said you need, or feel better eating animal protein. I'm providing evidence that this isn't the case, and you confirmed it.

I never said i would be able to determine a difference, which is my point - no one could, and your body and mind do not really know the difference between animal and plant protein. So you cannot 'feel better' because of eating animal protein.

What I find curious.... is why does one need to declare themselves as a vegan, meat eater or whatever? Do you have to be absolute about it? Many people who eat animal foods go periods without it.... they eat what they need, when they need it. Vegetarianism tends to be more dogmatic.... like there's a set of rules for it. You CAN'T eat animal products. People can feel guilty for "breaking the rules". This too ...... is all in the head.

Veganism isn't just a 'diet', as many might refer to it...it's actually a philosophy (at least, it was meant to be, when coined in 1944 by Donald Watson, who soon after founded the Vegan Society). The philosophy is one of peace and respect, with particular attention to the other animals who often suffer at the hands of humans. (I don't wish to make this an issue here in this Forum, so please let's stick to nutritional issues, and not ethical issues.)

For me, it's an important issue, and i raise it where i can, such as including it in my handle, and hopefully getting people to think about it, and consider that they can also be athletes and vegans if it is an idea they support.

From my experience with dietitians.... I wonder what are they studying? Hospitals are full of them..... yet they still serve the same crap they did 30 years ago. Lot's of refined foods..... white breads,juices etc. When my parents were in the hospital..... many times they got cans of Ensure. Ensure?...... are you kidding? The real food consisted of sandwiches of lunch meat and white bread, and canned juice. The Dietitian's view of food is still from the 50's .... archaic. They know nothing of the value eating WHOLE foods. I could not believe they are still giving patients such garbage. If anyone deserves real good food, it's someone who has had surgery. I met with a dietitian when I was10. What they were preaching to my parents was the same as it was then.

I doubt that this is what dietitians want to see in hospitals, and hospitals instead choose cheap foods that people want to eat. Just a guess.

Food can't be figured out by science. It can't be narrowed down to vitamins and minerals and such. Science has a very myopic view of food. The cannot see all the factors of how food affects us in infinite ways. They only see what they can measure.

I'm pretty sure it can. Certainly, we don't know this all know, but it can all be quantified. It started with more obvious things, such as salt...and progressed, with sailors getting scurvy, and finding what was identified as vitamin C to be the cure/preventative aid. The list goes on..

Food is life..... and life just can't be put in terms of numbers and chemistry.

Actually, life IS chemistry. And while it can't all be quantified right now, a fairly big chunk can, and this will only grow. And i would imagine that some day we'll answer the vast majority of nutritional science, if not all of it.

 

[lostintime]

Hey, did anyone know there was such a thing as Vegetarian bacon?

What's in it ?


Soy and Hate

 

[SpeedWay]

Hey, did anyone know there was such a thing as Vegetarian bacon?

What's in it ?


Soy and Hate

Saves wear and tear on the canines.