Armstrong at Snowmass

[craig1985]

It would be interesting to see Armstrong, Evans, Landis, and Rasmussen all line up at a MTB event. Actually when can throw in Adam Hansen as well, he has won the MTB Crocodile Trophey twice a cross northern Australia, if you can ride that and finish, let alone win, nobody can ever tell you to HTFU.

Out of those five, who would people predcit a win? Given that two of them are ex-MTB riders.

 

[blackcat]

Landis and Rass were ordinary on the World Cup circuit. decidedly mediocre. Rass won the Worlds one year, but he, like Ricco, l'Hotellerie, always came with a big repuation as a charger, from the earliest

 

[the big ring]

It would be interesting to see Armstrong, Evans, Landis, and Rasmussen all line up at a MTB event. Actually when can throw in Adam Hansen as well, he has won the MTB Crocodile Trophey twice a cross northern Australia, if you can ride that and finish, let alone win, nobody can ever tell you to HTFU.

Out of those five, who would people predcit a win? Given that two of them are ex-MTB riders.

Followed Hansen's Croc trophy races very closesly - he has good power and recovery but not much technical ability - something he himself was willing to admit often.

My money would be on Evans. But I am a self-confessed Evans fanboi, so take that with a grain or two of sodium chloride...

 

[TheArbiter]

This is categorically not true. European professionals have been doing cyclocross and track work for large chunks of the training year for almost as long as road cycling's been in existence, and I'd be shocked if many haven't turned to mountain biking in the last few decades.

I will grant you that this fact doesn't make it to the local news in my part of the US.

As far as "mid-season", well...this isn't mid-season. Armstrong's season is over. I think it's cool he does these races, it's clear he just likes to race.

I live in the UK. It's true that some do a bit of off road off season, but not to a high level. Only a great like Armstrong can pull that off.

Lets just give the guy some credit instead of all this quibbling and whataboutery.

 

[Cobber]

far to obvious to be a doping control avoidance, there would be too much impossible press and a likely ban..

more likely a warm down prior to all the awards etc (hasnt got his usual masseur etc on hand), or perhaps even getting out of the way to let the other riders get some press and attention instead of hogging it all

interesting that this post is in the clinic..?

Because people are so quick to use Contador to bash Armstrong. Obviously.

It's a genuine point though. Contador is probably a more natural road racer than Armstrong ever was - indeed there are a lot of road riders that are naturally more suited to the road than Armstrong. For me that's why Armstrong is so great - he had to learn how to be the best, working on his cadence and style. He doesn't even look like a road rider. He's just a great endurance athlete.

This is why this thread needs to be in the clinic. It makes it easier the respond to posts like this one.

 

[TheArbiter]

This is why this thread needs to be in the clinic. It makes it easier the respond to posts like this one.

It's funny how the cadence of the younger riders has changed so much since Armstrong. If anything he has slowed down a bit now, whilst they are quicker than he is. But before everybody started to copy him, he had the fastest cadence on the block.

 

[Cobber]

I live in the UK. It's true that some do a bit of off road off season, but not to a high level. Only a great like Armstrong can pull that off.

That is just such an ignorant statement..... There are numerous examples of pro road cyclists winning MTB, cyclocross or track races, or vice versa. I remember watching Cadel Evans win the Tour of Tasmania in '98 and '99 (the 2 years he won the MTB world cup). Not a big pro event, I give you, but he did beat riders like Michael Rogers, for example.

 

[TheArbiter]

That is just such an ignorant statement..... There are numerous examples of pro road cyclists winning MTB, cyclocross or track races, or vice versa. I remember watching Cadel Evans win the Tour of Tasmania in '98 and '99 (the 2 years he won the MTB world cup). Not a big pro event, I give you, but he did beat riders like Michael Rogers, for example.

You only cite a few instances from those who had a background in the sport. Armstrong is a rare beast. Lets just give him the praise he deserves for this. Agreed?

Plus he does all that triathlon stuff. He's a rare great all round endurance athlete.

 

[Zen Master]

It's funny how the cadence of the younger riders has changed so much since Armstrong. If anything he has slowed down a bit now, whilst they are quicker than he is. But before everybody started to copy him, he had the fastest cadence on the block.

Oh boy... What a annoying " Lance is my hero " dumbass

 

[TheArbiter]

Oh boy... What a annoying " Lance is my hero " dumbass

Eh, it's a cycling forum. Am I not allowed to remark on how so many of the younger generation modeled their cadence on Armstrong? What type of cycling forum would not allow that factual observation? (Cue someone claiming it's not a fact and all had nothing to do with Armstrong...yawn)

 

[red_flanders]

I live in the UK. It's true that some do a bit of off road off season, but not to a high level. Only a great like Armstrong can pull that off.

Why? Why would "only a great like Armstrong" be able to ride a mountain bike competitively?

Please explain what is so difficult about mountain biking that "only a great like Armstrong" could do it at a high level? Could Ryder Hesjedal do it? Is he a great? Evans? Another great? This may be news, but most pro cyclists (Rasmussen, Menchov and Basso notwithstanding) are amazing bike handlers. Anyone who is a the top level of one discipline has fantastic odds of being at the top level of another. Cycling is first and foremost an endurance sport. You have the engine, you're going to go well.

Why must the fanatics make more of Lance than really exists? Is it a lack of knowledge? Some need to fight back against all his faults? I don't get it.

 

[red_flanders]

Eh, it's a cycling forum. Am I not allowed to remark on how so many of the younger generation modeled their cadence on Armstrong? What type of cycling forum would not allow that factual observation? (Cue someone claiming it's not a fact and all had nothing to do with Armstrong...yawn)

Do you know where Armstrong got the high cadence? He claims to have learned it from someone else. I'll wager you do, it's part of the "legend". Do you understand why high cadence is used? Do you wonder why it came in vogue in the 90's, when previously guys pushed big gears?

 

[Eva Maria]

Why must the fanatics make more of Lance than really exists? Is it a lack of knowledge? Some need to fight back against all his faults? I don't get it.

In this case it is called trolling.

 

[mikkemus23]

You only cite a few instances from those who had a background in the sport. Armstrong is a rare beast. Lets just give him the praise he deserves for this. Agreed?

Plus he does all that triathlon stuff. He's a rare great all round endurance athlete.

Ho ho. Ho Ho.
Sure he is a rare beast. Any road pro with a 50+ % crit would crush those guys, just like Lance did. I`ll give my praise to Ferrari, great job.

 

[Anonymous]

Don't feed the troll. You will starve him of that thing he needs the most. Take if from a troll, it works.

 

[131313]

you know, if you want to make a case about Armstrong doping, there's a lot of damning information out there.

Going for a 40 minute cool-down ride after a local MTB race? I'd say that's really not helping make the case, and implying that it is just makes you seem delusional, and waters down all of the other legit info out there.

It's probably time to step back and take a deep breath.

 

[kiwirider]

Do you know where Armstrong got the high cadence? He claims to have learned it from someone else. I'll wager you do, it's part of the "legend". Do you understand why high cadence is used? Do you wonder why it came in vogue in the 90's, when previously guys pushed big gears?

+1 on your post

Sean Kelly used to train 39x17 max gear in the off season to build the abiliyt to spin ...

Trackies have been spinning high cadence for decades ...

And Arbiter says that they're a pom - surely you've seen the hill climb races in the UK? A family friend used to race them in the '70's before he moved to NZ and told me how they'd all run fixies which meant spinning like crazy in places - often well above 100rpm ... (that guy was beautiful to watch on a bike - really smooth spinner ....)

As for the dirt skills - Arbiter, how long have you followed cycling for? This amazing - I'm going to say boring - level of specialisation is really only a new thing. Look back a few years and you'll find that most roadies raced either cross or track in the winter. I mean, check out the top 10 at cross worlds in various categories and you'll find well known roadie names like Ullrich, Van der Poel, Djernis, De Bie, Hammond, Arnould, Kuiper ...

Jeez, when I started racing - and we were all just enthusiastic amateurs - we all had track bikes and some form of off road bike (MTB was new in NZ at that stage) - and we raced on a combination of road, track and dirt year round because we all knew that it built a stronger all round rider.

And if Arbiter admires Armstrong for being able to ride a second tier regional MTB race, what does he/she think of Sven Nys?? I mean here's a person with a huge cross palmares, a handy second career as a MTBer and rides a handy road race for the Continental Pro teams. And not just for one year - he's done this for pretty much his entire career. Now, there's someone who I would believe is more deserving of your respect and admiration Arbiter - what say you?

The saddest thing about comments like Arbiters is that they seem to be so widely held amongst english speaking cycling fans. These seem to be the people who have come into cycling over the last 10 years and follow men's road racing only - unless their favourite rider races another race. As such, they lack an understanding of the history and breadth of cycling (and I make that statement with all due recognition of the limits of my own knowledge). I really encourage those people to look beyond men's road racing since the turn of the century - you'd be surprised how much more there is to know and love about bike racing if you do!

 

[blackcat]

actually, when Armstrong returned this year, one thing was obvious he lacked, peloton craft, and handling skill.

For his 7 year reign, Armstrong was fortunate, I can only remember 2 crashes, one the musette crash. And the other in a group, in 04 or 05. He may have lost 15-20 seconds, as it was with about 8 kms to go, and the peloton was moving for a sprint (I think, memory hazy)

So, he was brilliant, in avoiding trouble, and crashing few times, and when he crashed, avoiding injuries.

This time back, there was alot of mocking within the peloton, about his handling and peloton craft. He had lost that skill.

Arbiter is either a paid PR flak, or some fanboi, who knows jack $hit about cycling...

 

[TheArbiter]

actually, when Armstrong returned this year, one thing was obvious he lacked, peloton craft, and handling skill.

For his 7 year reign, Armstrong was fortunate, I can only remember 2 crashes, one the musette crash. And the other in a group, in 04 or 05. He may have lost 15-20 seconds, as it was with about 8 kms to go, and the peloton was moving for a sprint (I think, memory hazy)

So, he was brilliant, in avoiding trouble, and crashing few times, and when he crashed, avoiding injuries.

This time back, there was alot of mocking within the peloton, about his handling and peloton craft. He had lost that skill.

Arbiter is either a paid PR flak, or some fanboi, who knows jack $hit about cycling...

Rubbish. Armstrong was third quickest down hill in the second Giro time trial. Your handling skills are the last thing to go.

 

[Eva Maria]

Rubbish. Armstrong was third quickest down hill in the second Giro time trial. Your handling skills are the last thing to go.

Link? Or is this another of your inventions?

 

[TheArbiter]

It's not that complicated guys. Armstrong's high cadence speed in pro-road biking did see the younger riders copying him on mass. Yes I'm sure there were people before him who had that style, but everybody didn't copy them because they weren't as successful.

You often get this in cycling. A guy has some success with a new style/position, and then everybody copies it. The same with Armstrong's time trialing style.

You can't stand it, can you.

 

[TheArbiter]

Link? Or is this another of your inventions?

The commentators remarked on it. He was well down on the overall pace but was third quickest in the technical down hill section. (I Di luca was first. Menchof was way down.)

It's no secret that Armstrong is one of the best bike handlers out there. Are we supposed to pretend that's not true as well now?

 

[Digger]

It's not that complicated guys. Armstrong's high cadence speed in pro-road biking did see the younger riders copying him on mass. Yes I'm sure there were people before him who had that style, but everybody didn't copy them because they weren't as successful.

You often get this in cycling. A guy has some success with a new style/position, and then everybody copies it. The same with Armstrong's time trialing style.

You can't stand it, can you.

You know what is required for a higher cadence?

 

[blackcat]

Rubbish. Armstrong was third quickest down hill in the second Giro time trial. Your handling skills are the last thing to go.

perhaps you are not well connected, and heard about his early season racing and the peloton chatter.

 

[TheArbiter]

You know what is required for a higher cadence?

I know, beetroot juice. I've ordered a load.