Armstrong drops A.Schlek who is 15 min out the back WTF???

[Eyjafjallajokull]

Well, to be fair no other team challenged Contador. Had the "Shack attack" (Then Astana) been without the Spaniard, I'm sure you and I could agree that they probably hadn't gone "unchallenged"....?

No, as a team. What other team performed better than them? Okay they lost the TTT by a millionith of a second or something, but I can't remember another team out performing them in the mountains or other stages. They seemed to control things quite well.

 

[Anonymous]

Just because you did, that doen't mean it is even vaguely resembling the truth - unless the other teams are all out of form.
As a purely academic exercise of ranking all teams being at full strength on a tough stage, I would rank Shack, at best, 6th, definitely behind Liquigas, Astana, Saxo, Caisse and Cervelo, and about level with Rabo, Aqua e Sapone (if mountanous), Sky, Euskatel (specially for mountains) and Katyusha (if stage is vaguely Classic like)
And that is not to mention HTC or Garmin, who have a pretty impressive line up, but more geared to keeping the peloton together/chasing breaks to set up a train rather than attacking and putting the pain on others in the mountains.

You are debating with a mentally ill person. I am not saying that to be mean. He is truly insane. He trolls here regularly under different names because he continues to get banned, but is obviously adept at subverting the bans placed upon him. He posts from a block of IP's and does not have one single IP that can be banned. Therefore, he keeps coming back in an attempt to engage new people who do not know who he is. Just put him on "Ignore." You will be much happier.

 

[Eyjafjallajokull]

You are debating with a mentally ill person. I am not saying that to be mean. He is truly insane. He trolls here regularly under different names because he continues to get banned, but is obviously adept at subverting the bans placed upon him. He posts from a block of IP's and does not have one single IP that can be banned. Therefore, he keeps coming back in an attempt to engage new people who do not know who he is. Just put him on "Ignore." You will be much happier.

Cycling is the best way to mental health, TFF.

 

[Kazistuta]

Well, I'll give you that it wasn't like any other teams were close to bringing Conti/Astana on their knees last year. My (rather invisible) point was to point out, that without Contador it doesn't seem like Radioshack can be challengers themselves in TDF. They have been designed for controlling TDF, not animating them, just as back in the days with Lance/Discovery/US Postal. It's a team that needs ONE aggressive challenger, which Armstrong was back in the day (today he seems only race aggressive, not particularly as a challenger to anything, though he's still a more than decent rider) and Contador was last year.

They can still prove me wrong this summer, but I by absolutely NO chance see them being more aggressive than:

Saxo Bank - Schleck*2 & Voigt

Liquigas - Nibali & Kreuziger ( & Pellizotti) - Sagan would be obvious, but isn't competing in TDF this year.

Rabobank - Gesink & Menchov

Astana - Contador, De La Fuente & Vinokourov

Caisse - (Valverde), Cobo, Costa & LL Sanchez

Euskaltel - Sanchez, Anton & Intxausti (Txurruka is overly aggresive, but can't compete)


Radioshack has ONE aggressive rider, that being Tiago Machado - let's see if he's going to France in July..

 

[Eyjafjallajokull]

Well, I'll give you that it wasn't like any other teams were close to bringing Conti/Astana on their knees last year. My (rather invisible) point was to point out, that without Contador it doesn't seem like Radioshack can be challengers themselves in TDF. They have been designed for controlling TDF, not animating them, just as back in the days with Lance/Discovery/US Postal. It's a team that needs ONE aggressive challenger, which Armstrong was back in the day (today he seems only race aggressive, not particularly as a challenger to anything, though he's still a more than decent rider) and Contador was last year.

They can still prove me wrong this summer, but I by absolutely NO chance see them being more aggressive than:

Saxo Bank - Schleck*2 & Voigt

Liquigas - Nibali & Kreuziger ( & Pellizotti) - Sagan would be obvious, but isn't competing in TDF this year.

Rabobank - Gesink & Menchov

Astana - Contador, De La Fuente & Vinokourov

Caisse - (Valverde), Cobo, Costa & LL Sanchez

Euskaltel - Sanchez, Anton & Intxausti (Txurruka is overly aggresive, but can't compete)


Radioshack has ONE aggressive rider, that being Tiago Machado - let's see if he's going to France in July..

Thanks for the response and ignoring the troll with confidence problems.

Yes I would agree that there is no great attacking individual left in RadioShack after AC has gone. That is going to be their main problem at the tour. Though I was really focusing on their over all ability as a team to control stages, and you agree that they are still pretty good at that - on form.

I take your point.

 

[benpounder]

It's not a small race, but it's really only huge to certain fans and some US based sponsors. So when those riders aren't having a great day in the saddle, which Andy certainly wasn't today, they find an echelon and come in when they come in.

One aspect of the ToC that I havent seen discussed much (my fault perhaps) is how well it works as training for the TdF. Much shorter than the Giro, (and without true beasts such as Gavia and much less chance of getting wiped out by a boneheaded conti Domie), the ToC still has a strong peleton (check out the average speed compared to VCastilla Leon, Trentino, and TdRomandie) and good hills. Additionally, after 8 days of hard riding, riders have two weeks of training/scouting, then either the final big training race (Dauphine/TdSuisse) and another two weeks of training/scouting prior to the beginning of the TdF.

Undoubtedly RS, Garmin, Saxo, and HTC are riding for the GC, but look how many of their riders were in the front groups. With each teams top dog off the front, I would expect one or two from each team to follow in support, but we saw 4 or 5 or 6. Remember, it is in these 'training' races where the riders prove to thier team of thier worthiness for a spot in July.

Granted, Schlecklet is garanteed a spot on Saxo's roster, but given his performance yesterday, either he is well off target, or he is lacking the drive to put in the preperation necessary for a winning TdF ride. Either way, LA schooled AS yesterday.

 

[ScottyMuser]

As for whether the TOC is good prep for the TDF - I say NO. It doesn't have anything resembling a mountain top finish, hardly a single mountain that would be Cat 1 in a GT, and is only considered a "big" deal by Dave Z, Levi, and the organisers. It is completely irrelevant how Andy S does in this race - it hjas less bearing on how he will turn up for TDF (unless he has a massive crash that keeps him out) thaen the Ardennes Classics do; and having the 3 US based Pro Tour teams sending out a couple of GT contenders to try and take their home tour shouldn't really be surprising.

 

[tgsgirl]

Granted, Schlecklet is garanteed a spot on Saxo's roster, but given his performance yesterday, either he is well off target, or he is lacking the drive to put in the preperation necessary for a winning TdF ride. Either way, LA schooled AS yesterday.

Or, secret option number three, he's lacking the drive to give a **** about Cali, like all sane people.

 

[ScottyMuser]

Or, secret option number three, he's lacking the drive to give a **** about Cali, like all sane people.

Oh no there are 1 or 2 sane people who seem to give a **** about Cali - I would suggest Dave Z is pretty sane Can't think of anyone else though.

 

[issoisso]

Or, secret option number three, he's lacking the drive to give a **** about Cali, like all sane people.

May I add that Andy Schleck feels that way about every race other than the Ardennes classics and the Tour de France.

 

[benpounder]

Or, secret option number three, he's lacking the drive to give a **** about Cali, like all sane people.

That is not option 3, it is a subset of my option 2. If one is hoping to show well for the biggest stage in cycling, one doesn't opt for "this is a stupid race that my sponsors forced upon me, therefore I'm just going to stamp my feet and pout in the corner."

 

[issoisso]

That is not option 3, it is a subset of my option 2. If one is hoping to show well for the biggest stage in cycling, one doesn't opt for "this is a stupid race that my sponsors forced upon me, therefore I'm just going to stamp my feet and pout in the corner."

One does if the team's bike sponsorship with an american bike brand depends on that.
The reason big name riders who aren't american are racing there is the same that non-american ProTour teams are there: they have american sponsors. Every one of them. Those that don't, aren't there.

That doesn't mean it's not a decent tune-up for the Tour. It is.
Now compare Andy Schleck's performance with his previous years. He's the same as he was before. He's right on track for the Tour.

 

[tgsgirl]

May I add that Andy Schleck feels that way about every race other than the Ardennes classics and the Tour de France.

And Curaçao. Boy loves those dolphins. That sounds very wrong.

 

[flicker]

That is not option 3, it is a subset of my option 2. If one is hoping to show well for the biggest stage in cycling, one doesn't opt for "this is a stupid race that my sponsors forced upon me, therefore I'm just going to stamp my feet and pout in the corner."

A true pro/champion would show mettle in Cali. Plus Andy is sponsored by Specialized in Morgan Hill Cali.

 

[issoisso]

And Curaçao. Boy loves those dolphins. That sounds very wrong.

But...but...but I love dolphins too. Why is that wrong?

 

[tgsgirl]

But...but...but I love dolphins too. Why is that wrong?

Because they're evil.

 

[issoisso]

Because they're evil.

Baloney.
You're just jealous of King Snorky.

 

[tgsgirl]

Baloney.
You're just jealous of King Snorky.

Thanks for that, I couldn't quite remember his name

 

[issoisso]

Thanks for that, I couldn't quite remember his name

Snorky. Talk. Man.
Remember that.

Failing that, everything's on youtube.

 

[benpounder]

One does if the team's bike sponsorship with an american bike brand depends on that.
The reason big name riders who aren't american are racing there is the same that non-american ProTour teams are there: they have american sponsors. Every one of them. Those that don't, aren't there.

True, but that is a different argument. Most riders dont have the power to affect how their sponsors... well, sponsor things (think money).

Now I admit I dont know how AS has fared in his training. I only pay attention to his results in the larger spring races. But given that his Saxo team has evolved from Danish registered, but US based CSC (with heavy US sponsorship - where do you think Riis is primarily looking for sponsorship?), one would think that Andy, or any other non-North American rider on a North American sponsored team would willingly thumb noses at the largest North American based race.

Of course the ToC is primarily a race for North American riders with North American sponsors. Big surprise - what do you think the less-than-major races are in any other country?

 

[issoisso]

True, but that is a different argument. Most riders dont have the power to affect how their sponsors... well, sponsor things (think money).

I would say it followed logically from your points

Now I admit I dont know how AS has fared in his training. I only pay attention to his results in the larger spring races.

Fair enough

But given that his Saxo team has evolved from Danish registered, but US based CSC (with heavy US sponsorship - where do you think Riis is primarily looking for sponsorship?),

The company? Yes. The team? Danish to the core.

one would think that Andy, or any other non-North American rider on a North American sponsored team would willingly thumb noses at the largest North American based race.

Most riders would ride along and not look down on trying something here or there. But as I noted above, Andy is the type of rider I hate: except for two or three races per season, thinks every other race is beneath him.

It doesn't help that he has a snobby attitude towards everyone and everything. If only he could be more like his brother.

Of course the ToC is primarily a race for North American riders with North American sponsors. Big surprise - what do you think the less-than-major races are in any other country?

I don't get the question or the point, sorry.

 

[tgsgirl]

Of course the ToC is primarily a race for North American riders with North American sponsors. Big surprise - what do you think the less-than-major races are in any other country?

I think the point is that all slightly-less-great stage races are most important to the locals, which is true. And that would be perfectly fine for Cali too, if only they weren't the second biggest race in the world...

 

[benpounder]

I don't get the question or the point, sorry.

A rant. As another poster pointed out on another thread, all bike races have their merits, and those that poo-poo'ing one at the expense of another are grinding axes rather than enjoying cycling.

 

[issoisso]

A rant. As another poster pointed out on another thread, all bike races have their merits, and those that poo-poo'ing one at the expense of another are grinding axes rather than enjoying cycling.

I wasn't dissing the ToC. Just pointing out that you can't expect the younger Schleck to care about it, due to a combination of personality and his (lack of) motivation for being there.

 

[benpounder]

And that would be perfectly fine for Cali too, if only they weren't the second biggest race in the world...

It is too easy to mistake the race for the PR. However, the PR that I suspect you object to is not exclusive to the US.