Armstrong Lies

[CentralCaliBike]

So you won't have a problem if I come to the Valley, join your club ride and repeatedly tool you while talking smack to you and making you look like a slow fat slob in front of your club rider friends? Cool.

You are welcome to come up for a ride - I learned a while back to handle the fact that some people are better than I am on a bike. While your talk might not impress everyone, your riding might get some respect if you are that good.

 

[BikeCentric]

A great personality does not win in sports - you have to look for something else when it coming to winning.

Those of us who aren't psychotic learn at a very young age how to conduct ourselves in socially acceptable manner while off the field and how to compete fiercely while on the sporting green. It's really not that hard. I learned in Pop Warner football when I was like 8 years old.

 

[CentralCaliBike]

Those of us who aren't psychotic learn at a very young age how to conduct ourselves in socially acceptable manner while off the field and how to compete fiercely while on the sporting green. It's really not that hard. I learned in Pop Warner football when I was like 8 years old.

I guess I spend a lot more time around type AA personalities, they are not in it to win the hearts and minds and, from my experience, neither are a lot of pro athletes.

 

[BikeCentric]

You are welcome to come up for a ride - I learned a while back to handle the fact that some people are better than I am on a bike. While your talk might not impress everyone, your riding might get some respect if you are that good.

But do you see my point? There's no question that people would think I was a jerk if I acted like that. Do you see the parallel to Lance?

 

[CentralCaliBike]

Those of us who aren't psychotic learn at a very young age how to conduct ourselves in socially acceptable manner while off the field and how to compete fiercely while on the sporting green. It's really not that hard. I learned in Pop Warner football when I was like 8 years old.

It is interesting that a lot of us on this Forum put those same manners aside when taking a side on the LA debate. From the comments I have read, I really doubt that the writers against LA would hesitate to embarrass him with their cycling ability if that were possible > so I am not really buying the socially acceptable manner aspect of your argument.

 

[BikeCentric]

I guess I spend a lot more time around type AA personalities, they are not in it to win the hearts and minds and, from my experience, neither are a lot of pro athletes.

Yeah it certainly sounds like your club must be the most fierce bunch of bad *** non-racers around.

 

[CentralCaliBike]

But do you see my point? There's no question that people would think I was a jerk if I acted like that. Do you see the parallel to Lance?

I just do not have a problem with a GC guy riding down a break. I had a bigger problem with the two of them sitting up quite frankly - I wanted to see if either could stay in from of the Peloton and take the stage, that would have been much more interesting.

 

[CentralCaliBike]

Yeah it certainly sounds like your club must be the most fierce bunch of bad *** non-racers around.

I was not talking about the guys I ride with (although there are a couple who do have the AA personality down pat).

 

[Dr. Maserati]

There is, and I believe it was Cavendish's comments that caused Garmin to pull hard keeping Hincapie out of yellow.

Athletes have attitudes and often consider competition to be a form of personal combat. I certainly believe that Armstrong was making a point to Simoni that he did not like him. That may have started with the testimony, or it could have started at a prior time, but it is still racing. When they both dropped back, that was Omertà (on the part of both as well as the other guys in the break).

A great personality does not win in sports - you have to look for something else when it coming to winning. Look at Tiger Woods, seems he is not a very loyal personality type - that does not mean he is a bad golfer.

I don't have a problem with Lances personality - he is not marrying my sister.
He is a sports personality - many of those have unpleasant characteristics. But being a prick is not a necessity to excl either.

There was nothing sportsman like in what LA did - it was Omerta - and Lance was enforcing it - did the Garmin guys go around the bunch doing a fingers to the lips 'zip closed' sign or some of the team spit on Hincapie?

 

[CentralCaliBike]

I don't have a problem with Lances personality - he is not marrying my sister.
He is a sports personality - many of those have unpleasant characteristics. But being a prick is not a necessity to excl either.

There was nothing sportsman like in what LA did - it was Omerta - and Lance was enforcing it - did the Garmin guys go around the bunch doing a fingers to the lips 'zip closed' sign or some of the team spit on Hincapie?

I watched that stage and really do not remember seeing anyone spit - from your comments here I assume there is a article or two out that with this claim, I just have not heard about it. If it happened I would be more upset with the guy spitting than the one who chased down the break.

 

[flicker]

I just don't care anymoreeeeee

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I watched that stage and really do not remember seeing anyone spit - from your comments here I assume there is a article or two out that with this claim, I just have not heard about it. If it happened I would be more upset with the guy spitting than the one who chased down the break.

As a lawyer I am suprised that you would not be outraged - as the only mistake that Simeoni had made was not to lie when on the stand in the court case against Dr. Ferrari.


Here was LA's side of the story:
"I was protecting the interests of the peloton, the story of Simeoni is not a fair story...there's a long history there. All (journalists) want to write about is parts of the story. It's a long history...a guy like (Simeoni), all he wants to do is to destroy cycling...and for me, that's not correct. And I when I went back to the group they said 'chapeau'...thank you very much. Because they understand that (cycling) is their job and that they absolutely love it and they're committed to it and don't want somebody within their sport destroying it. So...for me it's no problem to go on the wheel, to follow the wheel"

 

[flicker]

I think chasing down Simeoni at Lances call was showing either how much Lance intimidates or how much the other riders hate whistle blowers, whether they are dirty or not. Kind of amazing to me Lance would extend that type of effort.

 

[Race Radio]

I watched that stage and really do not remember seeing anyone spit - from your comments here I assume there is a article or two out that with this claim, I just have not heard about it. If it happened I would be more upset with the guy spitting than the one who chased down the break.

Yes, Eki spit on Simeoni when he returned to the group. All class.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, Eki spit on Simeoni when he returned to the group. All class.

That is simply not true.

 

[CentralCaliBike]

As a lawyer I am suprised that you would not be outraged - as the only mistake that Simeoni had made was not to lie when on the stand in the court case against Dr. Ferrari.

I still see this as a "game" issue not a courtroom one. If a witness that I believed came in and told me that the guy he testifyed against was on a opposing soccer team, that because of their relative team strength the defendant was able to run up the score, and that my witness felt the defendant did it on purpose to embarrass him for testimony, I am afraid I would not find this to be a crime (as the Italians were claiming at the time) or see it as some form of intimidation. I would see it as evidence that the defendant was angry with the witness perhaps but not criminal or "dissuading" of my witness.

 

[Anonymous]

I still see this as a "game" issue not a courtroom one. If a witness that I believed came in and told me that the guy he testifyed against was on a opposing soccer team, that because of their relative team strength the defendant was able to run up the score, and that my witness felt the defendant did it on purpose to embarrass him for testimony, I am afraid I would not find this to be a crime (as the Italians were claiming at the time) or see it as some form of intimidation. I would see it as evidence that the defendant was angry with the witness perhaps but not criminal or "dissuading" of my witness.

Yes.

Simpering Simeoni just got what he deserved. It is not because he "broke a law". No one liked the guy.

 

[pedaling squares]

I still see this as a "game" issue not a courtroom one. If a witness that I believed came in and told me that the guy he testifyed against was on a opposing soccer team, that because of their relative team strength the defendant was able to run up the score, and that my witness felt the defendant did it on purpose to embarrass him for testimony, I am afraid I would not find this to be a crime (as the Italians were claiming at the time) or see it as some form of intimidation. I would see it as evidence that the defendant was angry with the witness perhaps but not criminal or "dissuading" of my witness.

Interesting perspective. I cannot recall if this occurred before Simeoni gave evidence, or afterwards. Somebody on the thread will have this knowledge, please let me know. If it was prior, one could argue that Armstrong was taking action designed to prevent Simeoni from succeeding in his profession. That could easily be interpreted as an intimidating tactic chosen to dissuade a witness from testifying. Witness intimidation or whatever your penal code calls an attempted obstruction of justice (Cdn term). If Simeoni had already given evidence, then it is not a crime, just a case of a man being a tyrant and a bully just because he can.

 

[pedaling squares]

Yes.

Simpering Simeoni just got what he deserved. It is not because he "broke a law". No one liked the guy.

Reminds me of a guy who keeps getting banned from this forum.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I still see this as a "game" issue not a courtroom one. If a witness that I believed came in and told me that the guy he testifyed against was on a opposing soccer team, that because of their relative team strength the defendant was able to run up the score, and that my witness felt the defendant did it on purpose to embarrass him for testimony, I am afraid I would not find this to be a crime (as the Italians were claiming at the time) or see it as some form of intimidation. I would see it as evidence that the defendant was angry with the witness perhaps but not criminal or "dissuading" of my witness.

And what was Simeoni's 'crime'?

 

[CentralCaliBike]

Yes.

Simpering Simeoni just got what he deserved. It is not because he "broke a law". No one liked the guy.

I do not remember much about the back story (other than the testimony aspect) and I am not saying that Omertà did not play a role (it may have both on LA's part and on the others in the Peloton), I just do not have a problem with one racer chasing down another - again, what disappointed me was that they did not race for the finish that day.

FYI - if Simeoni testified truthfully, I do not have a problem with that either.

 

[CentralCaliBike]

And what was Simeoni's 'crime'?

No crime there either that I know of (or even suspect). I do remember there being words in the press from both Simeoni and LA before that TdF, and I felt those words played a role in the stage.

 

[Anonymous]

It was impressive that a GC contender took it upon themselves to chase someone down that was no threat to the overall, wasn't it? Credit where credit is due.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Interesting perspective. I cannot recall if this occurred before Simeoni gave evidence, or afterwards. Somebody on the thread will have this knowledge, please let me know. If it was prior, one could argue that Armstrong was taking action designed to prevent Simeoni from succeeding in his profession. That could easily be interpreted as an intimidating tactic chosen to dissuade a witness from testifying. Witness intimidation or whatever your penal code calls an attempted obstruction of justice (Cdn term). If Simeoni had already given evidence, then it is not a crime, just a case of a man being a tyrant and a bully just because he can.

Simeoni had testified against Dr. Ferrari and had shown that Ferrari had written false prescriptions - but did not mention Armstrong.

In a French newspaper Armstrong called Simeoni a "liar" - Simeoni then took a case of defamation against him. The Tour stage happened before the defamation case.

 

[Anonymous]

Simeoni had testified against Dr. Ferrari and had shown that Ferrari had written false prescriptions - but did not mention Armstrong.

In a French newspaper Armstrong called Simeoni a "liar" - Simeoni then took a case of defamation against him. The Tour stage happened before the defamation case.

Lance just laid the smack down on a whiner, that's all.