Armstrong looking to get out of jail free?

[runninboy]

...Yet the arguments based upon the evidence against him, are far more compelling than the morons who simply dismiss them as anti-fan hatred.

However in our case when two explanations are offered: that is either he raced clean on raw determination and hard work agianst an otherwise doped field that wasn't exactly slauching in training and preparation and won (beating them all soundly), or he was quite frankly simply on the sauce too; one must discard the one that explains the least, or explains nothing at all, or raises more questions than it does answers.

well put. It always seems to me that when two sides are presented for discussion the defenders turn to a knee jerk reaction instead of stating their case in a civilized manner. I dont know if it the personality of those involved, meaning the people who tend to play devils advocate and look at the evidence as whole, including circumstantial, will usually come out with a more balanced argument than those who react on an emotional level. I dont want to introduce politics here , but i have alot of friends who basically tell me they are justified in their political beliefs and dont care about the facts. And then when you ask them what they base their support on they only give you emotion, myth & rumour.

an example might be
"Nixon was our finest president, Watergate was a left wing conspiracy used to sell books & newspapers and the reason he had an enemies list was alot of people were trying to assassinate him"

"Armstrong is the most tested athlete ever, Carl Sagan says he passed tests billions & billions of times"

 

[D-Queued]

Thousands of controls?

Yes, thousands.

The way Lance (apparently) interprets this is that he includes all of the tests conducted by (samples taken and run by) anyone. In that case, the number is almost certainly in the thousands if not the tens of thousands.

We know, for example, that Carmichael was running many tests to see how well Lance controlled his lactate levels. And who knows how many controls Ferrari requires for his services? After all, Lance was known to exclaim that even Ferrari was pleased with the test results.

Here is a video of a control test: http://video.bicycling.com/video/Lance-Armstrong-Lactate-Thresho

Now, when it comes to DCO's, AAFs and In-competition or OOC anti-doping tests, the current thread on Anderson gives us some insight into how Lance may have missed at least one of those that he did not postpone with a shower.

When you are a busy guy like Lance, and commonly delegate all the important stuff to guys like Stapleton and Herman, you probably don't keep track of all those tests anyways.

'What, Carmichael needs another test. Damn those drug testing authorities.'

After all, I' m sorry that you can't dream big and that you don't believe in miracles

Dave.

 

[Darryl Webster]

well put. It always seems to me that when two sides are presented for discussion the defenders turn to a knee jerk reaction instead of stating their case in a civilized manner. I dont know if it the personality of those involved, meaning the people who tend to play devils advocate and look at the evidence as whole, including circumstantial, will usually come out with a more balanced argument than those who react on an emotional level. I dont want to introduce politics here , but i have alot of friends who basically tell me they are justified in their political beliefs and dont care about the facts. And then when you ask them what they base their support on they only give you emotion, myth & rumour.

an example might be
"Nixon was our finest president, Watergate was a left wing conspiracy used to sell books & newspapers and the reason he had an enemies list was alot of people were trying to assassinate him"

"Armstrong is the most tested athlete ever, Carl Sagan says he passed tests billions & billions of times"

Some usefull advice on "winning arguments" ..Appoligists take note:
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/08/how-to-win-an-argument/

Theres a quote in Law..cant remember who by..goes somat like:
"The guilty atack the accuser , the innocent debate the evidence"....
....Oh so true!!

 

[runninboy]

Yes, thousands.

The way Lance (apparently) interprets this is that he includes all of the tests conducted by (samples taken and run by) anyone. In that case, the number is almost certainly in the thousands if not the tens of thousands.

We know, for example, that Carmichael was running many tests to see how well Lance controlled his lactate levels. And who knows how many controls Ferrari requires for his services? After all, Lance was known to exclaim that even Ferrari was pleased with the test results.

Here is a video of a control test: http://video.bicycling.com/video/Lance-Armstrong-Lactate-Thresho

Now, when it comes to DCO's, AAFs and In-competition or OOC anti-doping tests, the current thread on Anderson gives us some insight into how Lance may have missed at least one of those that he did not postpone with a shower.

When you are a busy guy like Lance, and commonly delegate all the important stuff to guys like Stapleton and Herman, you probably don't keep track of all those tests anyways.

'What, Carmichael needs another test. Damn those drug testing authorities.'

After all, I' m sorry that you can't dream big and that you don't believe in miracles

Dave.

Wow that is quite a reach. tests=control?
with your analogy you have omitted that controls are meant to look for cheating in the context of the sport. You just leaped to anytime information on the athlete is gathered for any reason.

So using your logic, lets not stop there by all means continue with this logic. By your way of thinking Lance Armstrong is still not the most tested athlete. It is probably some 60 year old master who holds multiple degrees. Collectively he has probably undergone HUNDREDS of Thousands of tests in the course of his lifetime

elementary school
junior high
high school
undergraduate work
graduate work
testing in his chosen profession

 

[D-Queued]

Wow that is quite a reach. tests=control?
with your analogy you have omitted that controls are meant to look for cheating in the context of the sport. You just leaped to anytime information on the athlete is gathered for any reason.

So using your logic, lets not stop there by all means continue with this logic. By your way of thinking Lance Armstrong is still not the most tested athlete. It is probably some 60 year old master who holds multiple degrees. Collectively he has probably undergone HUNDREDS of Thousands of tests in the course of his lifetime

elementary school
junior high
high school
undergraduate work
graduate work
testing in his chosen profession

Not my logic, Lance's.

We know how many doping control tests he took. Lance has been in denial about the number for years.

Up until about 2003 OOC tests were scheduled four times per year.

Now, if you believe that my rational is full of s***, you are ultimately saying that Lance is full of s***.

I am ok with that.

Dave.

 

[runninboy]

Not my logic, Lance's.

We know how many doping control tests he took. Lance has been in denial about the number for years.

Up until about 2003 OOC tests were scheduled four times per year.

Now, if you believe that my rational is full of s***, you are ultimately saying that Lance is full of s***.

I am ok with that.

Dave.

My apologies to you
"Lance i think you're full"
oh why bother he knows he's lying

 

[oldschoolnik]

well put. It always seems to me that when two sides are presented for discussion the defenders turn to a knee jerk reaction instead of stating their case in a civilized manner. I dont know if it the personality of those involved, meaning the people who tend to play devils advocate and look at the evidence as whole, including circumstantial, will usually come out with a more balanced argument than those who react on an emotional level. I dont want to introduce politics here , but i have alot of friends who basically tell me they are justified in their political beliefs and dont care about the facts. And then when you ask them what they base their support on they only give you emotion, myth & rumour.

an example might be
"Nixon was our finest president, Watergate was a left wing conspiracy used to sell books & newspapers and the reason he had an enemies list was alot of people were trying to assassinate him"

"Armstrong is the most tested athlete ever, Carl Sagan says he passed tests billions & billions of times"

Excellent post. I have always felt this way.

 

[rhubroma]

well put. It always seems to me that when two sides are presented for discussion the defenders turn to a knee jerk reaction instead of stating their case in a civilized manner. I dont know if it the personality of those involved, meaning the people who tend to play devils advocate and look at the evidence as whole, including circumstantial, will usually come out with a more balanced argument than those who react on an emotional level. I dont want to introduce politics here , but i have alot of friends who basically tell me they are justified in their political beliefs and dont care about the facts. And then when you ask them what they base their support on they only give you emotion, myth & rumour.

an example might be
"Nixon was our finest president, Watergate was a left wing conspiracy used to sell books & newspapers and the reason he had an enemies list was alot of people were trying to assassinate him"

"Armstrong is the most tested athlete ever, Carl Sagan says he passed tests billions & billions of times"

This is normally what we call blind ideology.

The problem is that between blind ideology and healthy objective analysis usually the former wins out among the unfocused masses, because convenient.

 

[Night Rider]

after reading that part- I simply stopped...
BTW why Australia keeps idolizing that Liar after all?

It's TDU time so all the paid happy clappers are out in force preaching the gospel.

Don't in anyway take those sort of articles as the general feeling about Armstrong within the cycling community here. That article is just insipid garbage.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Anyone old enough to remember the statement that "Watergate proved the system worked?"

 

[jmax22]

Obviously "thousands" isn't possible. Anyone with basic math skills can see that there is no way Armstrong has been tested thousands of times. Hundreds is even a stretch. Seriously, thousands? That is more than once every other day for 10 years. Talk about irresponsible journalism, Jeez.

 

[SC1990]

You have 18 posts, yet are an expert on this? Uh, okay. BTW, nobody has insulted you yet douchebag. Now you have been insulted. Carry on.

How mature.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

It is my understanding that the Federal Grand Jury for the Central District of California meets every week on Tuesday. The feds surly know Lance is heading to Australia for a race.

I suspect there may be a sealed indictment floating around out there right now. I say that because of the perceived need to indict before statute of limitations problems rear their head. So will Lance be given a chance to surrender for arraignment before going to Australia, after returning or will the FBI + Novitsky arrest him soon and let him do the perp walk for the cameras?

It's going to be an action packed month by all reports.

 

[thehog]

It is my understanding that the Federal Grand Jury for the Central District of California meets every week on Tuesday. The feds surly know Lance is heading to Australia for a race.

I suspect there may be a sealed indictment floating around out there right now. I say that because of the perceived need to indict before statute of limitations problems rear their head. So will Lance be given a chance to surrender for arraignment before going to Australia, after returning or will the FBI + Novitsky arrest him soon and let him do the perp walk for the cameras?

It's going to be an action packed month by all reports.

I don't think he'll be allowed to leave the country. Just my own thought. Although in saying that the SI article is a due to be published on the 18th so perhaps they'll let him get hit there in Australia? Upon return arrest him.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

I don't think he'll be allowed to leave the country. Just my own thought. Although in saying that the SI article is a due to be published on the 18th so perhaps they'll let him get hit there in Australia? Upon return arrest him.

What to do if you're an AUSA is the big question. I would arraign him before he leaves the US--he's in Hawaii now. They will ask that he surrender his passport. But, the judge will have to decide if he is a flight risk. Even so, he might be required to put up an amazingly high bail if he is allowed to leave the country. As a Judge, the problem I'd have is that as a frequent flyer on a private jet, it's too easy for him to head for a country with no extradition treaty a la Robert Vesco.

 

[euanli]

Is the 18th certain now?

 

[Polish]

Obviously "thousands" isn't possible. Anyone with basic math skills can see that there is no way Armstrong has been tested thousands of times. Hundreds is even a stretch. Seriously, thousands? That is more than once every other day for 10 years. Talk about irresponsible journalism, Jeez.

10 years?
10 years might be the life span of an average pro.
Average pro's are tested an average amount.

Lance is not average lol.
Lance is going on almost 20 years as a pro.
Tested as an amateur also.

Blood, pee, and hair at one sitting = 3 tests.
A plus B samples equals six tests and one shower for one sitting.

300 days racing in Grand Tours.
Hundreds and hundrerds of other race days.
Out of competition testing focus.
US testers. Euro testers. AFLD testers. Obsessed testers.
test test test test

With all that testing I am suprised there were no FALSE positives....
Oh wait, there were 6 in 1999 bwahaha.

 

[Berzin]

I don't think he'll be allowed to leave the country. Just my own thought. Although in saying that the SI article is a due to be published on the 18th...

The 18th? Of January?

 

[VeloFidelis]

Fair enough, but if one were to walk into a room of Livestrong wristband-wearing groupies wearing Radio Shack outfits and make a cogent, logical, argument that Armstrong doped, one would probably be stoned to death, with no discussion. Or in the case of a forum administered by someone friendly to LA, you would be banned after your first post.

Definition of PARANOIA
para·noia noun \ˌper-ə-ˈnȯi-ə, ˌpa-rə-\

1: a psychosis characterized by systematized delusions of persecution or grandeur usually without hallucinations

2: a tendency on the part of an individual or group toward excessive or irrational suspiciousness and distrustfulness of others

You are correct! They're way worse than we are

 

[thehog]

The 18th? Of January?

Yes. Other publications have articles also to coincide with the TDU.

 

[thehog]

What to do if you're an AUSA is the big question. I would arraign him before he leaves the US--he's in Hawaii now. They will ask that he surrender his passport. But, the judge will have to decide if he is a flight risk. Even so, he might be required to put up an amazingly high bail if he is allowed to leave the country. As a Judge, the problem I'd have is that as a frequent flyer on a private jet, it's too easy for him to head for a country with no extradition treaty a la Robert Vesco.

Didn't think of the jet angle. Then I suspect they will impound the jet and request he flies commercial. Interesting few days ahead.

 

[bianchigirl]

Rupert Guinness on Twitter:

"say 20 years x 50 tests (urine, blood, hair) from ALL agencies that would = 1000, so maybe I shldve said 'possible a thousand' I still reckon he is, but "reckon" is prob a poor word! I understand your point. It would make an interesting study to ..... see who is/has been with those facts. Once Im back on deck (finishing a book for mon d/line) it wld be worth following up.."

I so look forward to seeing Rupert Guinness debunk the 'most tested' myth

 

[euanli]

Yes. Other publications have articles also to coincide with the TDU.

How many publications are we talking one. The SI in America and two in Europe perhaps?

 

[auscyclefan94]

I actually thought Rupert Guinness was a good journalist before this recent story. I wonder when an australian journalist will write something against Lance? All of them lack balls. Why won't they ask some real questions? Why do they all fawn over him in Australia? Yes he made the sport popular over here in Australia but surely sucking up to this liar is not good for the sport in Australia? Surely helping the sport move in the right direction is more important than covering up for this lie so the general public keep interest?

 

[Race Radio]

"The guilty atack the accuser , the innocent debate the evidence"....
....Oh so true!!

Good one, going to use that soon