Armstrong Retires, Again

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Mar 11, 2009
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Fausto's Schnauzer said:
It's finally over. When he first came on the scene I followed Lance's career with interest. He was brash, strong and his in-your-face attitude was refreshing. While I didn't think he'd ever be a TdF contender, I knew that he'd be in the hunt for lots of stage wins and such.

I was saddened by his bout with cancer, inspired by his comeback and impressed with his media and marketing savvy; so much so that the company I worked for in 1999 sought him out to endorse a product that we were about to launch. He initially took our calls personally and had agreed verbally to our proposals. But as summer came we ended up dealing with first an agent and then an attorney. Then of course he won his first Tour de France and all communication ceased. Zilch, nada, no phone calls, e-mails or letters were ever returned again.

The monetary value of our deal was admittedly very modest for a TdF winner and while we were disappointed, I understood that he had much bigger checks to cash I a let it go. I was still a big fan.

Then came the Dr. Ferrari revelations and the Greg Lemond comments...which I felt were completely relevant and appropriate for Greg to have made. I knew that Greg was also a fan and that he was sincerely disappointed.

Then I heard rumblings from folks within the industry, people connected to US Postal. I heard more thinly veiled comments about Lance from two of his team-mates. One even admitted to using a banned substance under orders of Johan and with the knowledge of Lance (Did you know that a rider who doesn't finish a stage isn't tested?).

I wanted to still believe, I really did. But the more I learned, the closer I looked, the more I found that didn't add up. From his written-by-a-lawyer responses to reporters questions "I never tested positive for any banned substance," to anecdotal revelations from riders and insiders, to the 1999 sample re-test, the back-dated TUE, his campaign against Lemond, the lying about his weight and VO2 max numbers, his vilification of Simeoni, it all added up to someone who I find difficult to admire as a person.

True, you can't make a race horse out of a draft horse, Lance is a unique specimen. And yes history shows that any doping he did pretty much made it a level playing field. But his steadfast denial of the truth, his pomposity, his apparent belief in his own myth and his hiding behind the Livestrong banner are what trouble me about Lance. :mad:
I hear you Bro. Started to pay attention after he won the Worlds.
The early years were great, fresh and intoxicating, but then as described seeds of doubt that just continue to build and sour the whole experience.

So long LA...
 
And he still couldn't give a full presser. Just some preplanned one on one with someone he trusts? Saw a bit of the video... he looks devoid of any emotion.

Only full pressers he has had were in the sanctuary of Rannsville.
 
May 21, 2010
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Doper Retires

Glad to see this megalomaniac gone. We've heard it before-some have rejoiced at the news of his retirement. I'm one.

Oh hell. Let us all just wait, all us USA citizens.
This lying scum will surely run for office. Give him 10 years.

I hope he, Ted Haggard and Larry Craig form their very own "indie-poli-party".

Can't wait for the indictment!!

Your a bad boy Lance, a very nasty, naughty boy.....

all praise former Sen. L. Craig!!

The New Ticket!!!!
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Arnout said:
And now the question is: does this forum have any future after Armstrong?
Givn the amount of interesting discussions goin on right now - outside the clinic - I think its easy to demonstrate that Armstrong probably detracted from this place rather than drawing people to it. With him gone hopefully we can get on with enjoying cycling again
 
Jun 16, 2009
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BroDeal said:
Unfortunately the legacy of this dirtbag has not ended completely. While riding today I passed a fool dressed head to toe in Livestrong gear. I laughed heartily.
Yep - here in Australia we for some reason have people willing to wear the mellow Johnnies kit. It beggars belief that some people can be that naive
 
Jul 23, 2009
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Martin318is said:
It beggars belief that some people can be that naive
They get that way from reading things like this quote from the AP article

That's how Armstrong broke through nearly every barrier the sport had erected over a century and more -- by leading with his chin. He spilled blood on the roads, came back from crashes and more than once, crossed the finish line of a stage race draped over his handlebars like a man hanging on for life instead of an unbreakable machine.
 
He spilled blood on the roads, came back from crashes and more than once, crossed the finish line of a stage race draped over his handlebars like a man hanging on for life instead of an unbreakable machine.
Sounds more like Levi or Tyler or Floyd than LA. Did LA ever have a serious, race-changing crash during his entire 7 year reign? The only serious crashes I recall were last year, and he didn't exactly "come back" from them. As for the way he finished--a prize to the first forum member who can supply a picture of LA finishing any TDF stage looking like anything other than a machine. I think he bonked on one mountain stage in 2001, and that first ITT in 2003, that's about it.

I mean, if you're a reporter and you're going to make stuff like this up, why not make up the whole interview as well?
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Merckx index said:
Sounds more like Levi or Tyler or Floyd than LA. Did LA ever have a serious, race-changing crash during his entire 7 year reign? The only serious crashes I recall were last year, and he didn't exactly "come back" from them. As for the way he finished--a prize to the first forum member who can supply a picture of LA finishing any TDF stage looking like anything other than a machine. I think he bonked on one mountain stage in 2001, and that first ITT in 2003, that's about it.
Well, the article did say "more than once." That would be twice! :p
(Actually, it was 2000, Stage 16, to Morzine. Funny how that town keeps coming up.)

"Came back from crashes" In other words, he was cyclist.

"Spilled blood on the roads" Ok, sure. LA was famous for not having suffered any catastrophic crashes during his reign. I suppose this "reporter" is strictly focusing on 2.0. Nothing like re-writing history.

I just stumbled across this cute little post from 2006, user name "bobke"
Oh, lemme guess, his bonk in 2000 will feature in some trial in France in the year 2015 when they re-examine his urines???

http://www.cyclingforums.com/forum/thread/353391/stage-16-2000-armstrong-bonks/15
Well, the date and location may be a bit off...but close! :D
 
Dr. Maserati said:
Richard Virenque said Ferrari was the best doping Doctor and wanted to go to him but Voet told him not to as going to Ferrari was like "sticking a saucepan up your arse", it was so obvious.

Who did Ferrari work for after 99? LA and some of USPS team - amazing how some of LA's domestiques were outclimbing some of Cecchini and Conconi's customers?
For someone who is pretty hot on facts, you don't mind using hearsay when it suits.
Virenque and Voet have less knowledge of physiology than any first year med student.

Ferrari was obviously key to Armstrongs success, but this theory that he was some sort of messiah doesn't work when you look at the results of the other doctors clients.

To name just a few...
Indurain
Ullrich
Riis
Pantani
Basso

Thats some GT sucess, over many years with different riders.
The results speak for themselves.

Was Ferrari so successful because of he had Armstrong as a client or the other way around? Probably a bit of both.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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andy1234 said:
Ferrari was obviously key to Armstrongs success, but this theory that he was some sort of messiah doesn't work when you look at the results of the other doctors clients.

To name just a few...
Indurain
Ullrich
Riis
Pantani
Basso
That list is your argument against? :eek:
 
andy1234 said:
For someone who is pretty hot on facts, you don't mind using hearsay when it suits.
Virenque and Voet have less knowledge of physiology than any first year med student.

Ferrari was obviously key to Armstrongs success, but this theory that he was some sort of messiah doesn't work when you look at the results of the other doctors clients.

To name just a few...
Indurain
Ullrich
Riis
Pantani
Basso

Thats some GT sucess, over many years with different riders.
The results speak for themselves.

Was Ferrari so successful because of he had Armstrong as a client or the other way around? Probably a bit of both.
Francois the Postman said:
That list is your argument against? :eek:
I assume you didn't realise that those riders are Conconi and Checchini's, not Ferrari?
 
Feb 10, 2011
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Armstrong is Rocky!

oldschoolnik said:
" I know what I know," Armstrong said. "I know what I do and I know what I did. That's not going to change."

Not exactly the most unqualified denial. Surprised he didn't say "I have never, ever used PED's ever in any race..."

They quote the $400,000,000 figure. Gonna go far to impress people.
In the Rocky voice:

"I do what i do because i did what i did, because i didn't do what you think i did, when you think i did, because i didn't do it ok, ok! punk!"
"And i know what i know and i know now i didn't do it, because i know now to say that". One day this great man will be President, Fly me to the ****ing moon when that day happens.

A cha cha cha!
 
May 22, 2009
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BroDeal said:
Maybe he was thinking about one of your other 55 salad tossing posts where you whinge about the forum attacking your idol.
What, ones that don't exist? Novel.
 
May 22, 2009
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And anyway, this is about Armstrong retiring, not you deciding on no basis what so ever apart from that i don't like the cynicism and negativity in here that I must 'love' Armstrong. Grow up.
 
Jun 18, 2009
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Riis worked with Ferrari at Gewiss, when his transformation began.

And just who was Pantani's doc in 1998? Ferrari claimed to have helped another rider win the Tour.

But point taken- there were a few docs who knew their stuff. I think the 'get out of gaol' card was probably a better reason.
 

Dr. Maserati

BANNED
Jun 19, 2009
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andy1234 said:
For someone who is pretty hot on facts, you don't mind using hearsay when it suits.
Virenque and Voet have less knowledge of physiology than any first year med student.

Ferrari was obviously key to Armstrongs success, but this theory that he was some sort of messiah doesn't work when you look at the results of the other doctors clients.

To name just a few...
Indurain
Ullrich
Riis
Pantani
Basso

Thats some GT sucess, over many years with different riders.
The results speak for themselves.

Was Ferrari so successful because of he had Armstrong as a client or the other way around? Probably a bit of both.
Ah, the theory that Dr. Ferrari is some sort of Messiah...... you mean the theory that you introduced?
To partially use a Monty Python quote - "he is not the Messiah", he's a very naughty hematologist.

"Indurain, Ullrich, Riis, Pantani, Basso" - no idea how that relates to your argument as Armstrong beat them all (except Indurain, no idea why he is included) once he met Ferrari.
(also it is likely that Pantani was a Ferrari customer until 99)
 

Skandar Akbar

BANNED
Nov 20, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
Ah, the theory that Dr. Ferrari is some sort of Messiah...... you mean the theory that you introduced?
To partially use a Monty Python quote - "he is not the Messiah", he's a very naughty hematologist.

"Indurain, Ullrich, Riis, Pantani, Basso" - no idea how that relates to your argument as Armstrong beat them all (except Indurain, no idea why he is included) once he met Ferrari.
(also it is likely that Pantani was a Ferrari customer until 99)
What part of 99 did he stop working with him? Pre giro then Ferrari must have been overated. After giro then Ferrari's legendary ability to elude the tests is overated. Please clarify because you may be straying from the cw.
 
Dr. Maserati said:
Ah, the theory that Dr. Ferrari is some sort of Messiah...... you mean the theory that you introduced?
To partially use a Monty Python quote - "he is not the Messiah", he's a very naughty hematologist.

"Indurain, Ullrich, Riis, Pantani, Basso" - no idea how that relates to your argument as Armstrong beat them all (except Indurain, no idea why he is included) once he met Ferrari.
(also it is likely that Pantani was a Ferrari customer until 99)
I didn't introduce the theory, I'm just rehashing the sentiment that many on here have with regards to Ferrari's power to produce champions.

I will ask you once again not to dissect every word of my post. This is an internet Forum, not a court of law. The implication of my post is obvious.

As far as the list of riders under other doctors, It proves that Ferrari was not the only option when it came to doping. If Armstrong had chosen one of those doctors instead of Ferrari, maybe the outcome would have been the same?
 
Aug 13, 2009
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andy1234 said:
For someone who is pretty hot on facts, you don't mind using hearsay when it suits.
Virenque and Voet have less knowledge of physiology than any first year med student.

Ferrari was obviously key to Armstrongs success, but this theory that he was some sort of messiah doesn't work when you look at the results of the other doctors clients.

To name just a few...
Indurain
Ullrich
Riis
Pantani
Basso

Thats some GT sucess, over many years with different riders.
The results speak for themselves.

Was Ferrari so successful because of he had Armstrong as a client or the other way around? Probably a bit of both.
I do not understand your post but thought you should know that Pantani was a Ferrari client when he won the double.
 
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