Armstrong Retires, Again

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flicker

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Aug 17, 2009
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hrotha said:
Nah, let's keep our comments mean and dirty as a homage to Lance's legacy.
Sorry, Lances' legacy is no dirtier than the legacy of the average sports figure.
In comparison he is cleaner by far than most other pro cyclists.


Although he is hated by few he is revered by many.

In recognition of the haters: Lance Armstrong>Haters.
 
RGScales said:
...So do you hate him or just cyclists in general?
Your response is to give the OP two false choices? Please, try again.

RGScales said:
I was just stating that he has changed the way that cycling is viewed by people and brought a lot of people into this sport that otherwise wouldn't have dared put on spandex.
This is a false statement. The U.S. cycling industry did not grow because of his fantastic record of TdF wins. It didn't grow when LeMond won a bunch either.

RGScales said:
After Lance came around, a lot more bikes started going out the door and my family became a lot more comfortable....
Facts please. What shop? What kind of bikes? Were there any other regional/local factors? Better road access perhaps? New employer in the area? What about the cost structure of the shop changed that you were suddenly more wealthy? PM me the shop if you don't want to share it. I won't share the shop name.

Anyone in the industry knows the bikes are no-margin. It's the accessories sold with the bike and perhaps some follow-on sales/service that keep a shop going.


I'm willing to believe your story. I need more facts to verify. But industry norms are working against you...
 
Jul 6, 2010
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RGScales said:
I feel like the statement I made initially was a valid statement. There are many things that are said on these threads that I completely disagree with and if I decide to respond to one of those things I certainly try and do it with as much respect and civility as possible. The fact that at the end of the day, I am an Armstrong fan, seems akin to being a fan of Hitler. It is frustrating that a person cannot make a statement one way or another about one of the most influential figures in OUR sport without immediately summoning every miserable comment that every person who dislikes him has to offer. I HATE Contador, but I certainly can discuss him and whatever situation is around him at the time without having to resort to saying that I think that he is a terrible roll model for any kid dreaming of riding in the Tour de France and not remotely because of the allegations against him.
I saw the title of this thread and thought that perhaps I may find a few comments about some of Lance's contributions to the sport instead the title of this thread was a statement of open season for everyone that dislikes him to make people that have a single fond memory of his career feel like fools.
Lastly, I am very sorry that you have a hard time encouraging youngsters to pursue a dream of cycling. I completely understand why and can absolutely empathize with it but it is indeed a sad statement of the condition of our sport.
Please do not take anything that I just said as an aggressive response but I did want to answer the question that you posed and I hope that I answered it satisfactorily.
Why do you hate Alberto?
 

Polish

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Mar 11, 2009
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Now that Lance has Officially Retired for Good, the delightful task of reviewing the vast history of his cycling exploits can begin in earnest.

Comparing Lance to the other Greats...Eddy, Fausto, Bernard, etc etc.
Luckily thousands of hours of video/audio clips remain.
We may even need a seperate sub-forum to have these discussions in?

might just loose track of the current crop of Pro Cyclists.
Won't have the time lol.

Thats ok with me, I don't follow Justin Bieber or Lady GaGa much either...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsCyC1dZiN8
.
.
.
 
Aug 7, 2010
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Once a fan.

It's finally over. When he first came on the scene I followed Lance's career with interest. He was brash, strong and his in-your-face attitude was refreshing. While I didn't think he'd ever be a TdF contender, I knew that he'd be in the hunt for lots of stage wins and such.

I was saddened by his bout with cancer, inspired by his comeback and impressed with his media and marketing savvy; so much so that the company I worked for in 1999 sought him out to endorse a product that we were about to launch. He initially took our calls personally and had agreed verbally to our proposals. But as summer came we ended up dealing with first an agent and then an attorney. Then of course he won his first Tour de France and all communication ceased. Zilch, nada, no phone calls, e-mails or letters were ever returned again.

The monetary value of our deal was admittedly very modest for a TdF winner and while we were disappointed, I understood that he had much bigger checks to cash I a let it go. I was still a big fan.

Then came the Dr. Ferrari revelations and the Greg Lemond comments...which I felt were completely relevant and appropriate for Greg to have made. I knew that Greg was also a fan and that he was sincerely disappointed.

Then I heard rumblings from folks within the industry, people connected to US Postal. I heard more thinly veiled comments about Lance from two of his team-mates. One even admitted to using a banned substance under orders of Johan and with the knowledge of Lance (Did you know that a rider who doesn't finish a stage isn't tested?).

I wanted to still believe, I really did. But the more I learned, the closer I looked, the more I found that didn't add up. From his written-by-a-lawyer responses to reporters questions "I never tested positive for any banned substance," to anecdotal revelations from riders and insiders, to the 1999 sample re-test, the back-dated TUE, his campaign against Lemond, the lying about his weight and VO2 max numbers, his vilification of Simeoni, it all added up to someone who I find difficult to admire as a person.

True, you can't make a race horse out of a draft horse, Lance is a unique specimen. And yes history shows that any doping he did pretty much made it a level playing field. But his steadfast denial of the truth, his pomposity, his apparent belief in his own myth and his hiding behind the Livestrong banner are what trouble me about Lance. :mad:
 
Dec 4, 2010
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All just part of the deal LA has struck/is striking with the US authorities.

As I stated in a previous thread, LA will be allowed to fade into anonymity/obscurity all the while escaping any type of personal/individual prosecution for his nefarious and complicit actions.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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Fausto's Schnauzer said:
It's finally over. :
That was a lovely admission. Thanks for that. I'm not American, but can certainly appreciate where you're coming from. I hope other fans can come to terms with this whole deal, and come out of the other end still loving cycling.

It truly is a lovely sport. The ammount of information that has come out over the last few months (to say nothing of this week), can be daunting and almost overwhelming.

It can still be something glorious. Let's work for that...
 
May 26, 2010
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Fausto's Schnauzer said:
It's finally over. When he first came on the scene I followed Lance's career with interest. He was brash, strong and his in-your-face attitude was refreshing. While I didn't think he'd ever be a TdF contender, I knew that he'd be in the hunt for lots of stage wins and such.

I was saddened by his bout with cancer, inspired by his comeback and impressed with his media and marketing savvy; so much so that the company I worked for in 1999 sought him out to endorse a product that we were about to launch. He initially took our calls personally and had agreed verbally to our proposals. But as summer came we ended up dealing with first an agent and then an attorney. Then of course he won his first Tour de France and all communication ceased. Zilch, nada, no phone calls, e-mails or letters were ever returned again.

The monetary value of our deal was admittedly very modest for a TdF winner and while we were disappointed, I understood that he had much bigger checks to cash I a let it go. I was still a big fan.

Then came the Dr. Ferrari revelations and the Greg Lemond comments...which I felt were completely relevant and appropriate for Greg to have made. I knew that Greg was also a fan and that he was sincerely disappointed.

Then I heard rumblings from folks within the industry, people connected to US Postal. I heard more thinly veiled comments about Lance from two of his team-mates. One even admitted to using a banned substance under orders of Johan and with the knowledge of Lance (Did you know that a rider who doesn't finish a stage isn't tested?).

I wanted to still believe, I really did. But the more I learned, the closer I looked, the more I found that didn't add up. From his written-by-a-lawyer responses to reporters questions "I never tested positive for any banned substance," to anecdotal revelations from riders and insiders, to the 1999 sample re-test, the back-dated TUE, his campaign against Lemond, the lying about his weight and VO2 max numbers, his vilification of Simeoni, it all added up to someone who I find difficult to admire as a person.

True, you can't make a race horse out of a draft horse, Lance is a unique specimen. And yes history shows that any doping he did pretty much made it a level playing field. But his steadfast denial of the truth, his pomposity, his apparent belief in his own myth and his hiding behind the Livestrong banner are what trouble me about Lance. :mad:
no it didn't, another myth that has been perpetrated by the fans to try and justify his doping. he doped since he was a teenage traithlete, he doped on the TdF before 1999. he got the best doping doctor in 1999 and got him exclusively that is why he won. end of.
 
Feb 4, 2011
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DirtyWorks said:
Your response is to give the OP two false choices? Please, try again.


This is a false statement. The U.S. cycling industry did not grow because of his fantastic record of TdF wins. It didn't grow when LeMond won a bunch either.



Facts please. What shop? What kind of bikes? Were there any other regional/local factors? Better road access perhaps? New employer in the area? What about the cost structure of the shop changed that you were suddenly more wealthy? PM me the shop if you don't want to share it. I won't share the shop name.

Anyone in the industry knows the bikes are no-margin. It's the accessories sold with the bike and perhaps some follow-on sales/service that keep a shop going.


I'm willing to believe your story. I need more facts to verify. But industry norms are working against you...
What statistics are you using to make the statement that the cycling industry did not grow in America with Lance's success. As I was not in business when Lemond was racing I cannot speak to that but I am scratching my head about the "Lance Era" statement.
 
Feb 4, 2011
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JMBeaushrimp said:
Why do you hate Alberto?
I suppose that saying that I hate Contador is a pretty strong statement as I have never met him...there are certain things about him however, that I just dont care for...most of them difficult to put a finger on I suppose. I think that my distaste for him started in 2009 I was not impressed by the way that he seemed to divide his team. I know that the argument could be correctly made that Lance did the same but I guess its just the way that I see it. The other thing that sticks out in my mind is the "chaingate" incident with Andy Schleck. I completely understand that Sanchez and Menchov were up the road and that he needed to respond to that but there were other ways of responding than to attack the yellow jersey on a mechanical.
I suppose that the way that he has handled this doping scandal has not impressed me either but really does not color my opinion of him very much. All said and done I simply do not like him as a rider. We all have favorites and riders we do not care for...he happens to fall into the latter category for me.
 

flicker

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Aug 17, 2009
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RGScales said:
What statistics are you using to make the statement that the cycling industry did not grow in America with Lance's success. As I was not in business when Lemond was racing I cannot speak to that but I am scratching my head about the "Lance Era" statement.
I don't know why but I see more "Lance" accesories and posters in bike shops than any other posters, accsesories. Coincidence?
 
May 21, 2010
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flicker said:
I don't know why but I see more "Lance" accesories and posters in bike shops than any other posters, accsesories. Coincidence?
Oh, stop it. You're just trying to rile us up to fill the void in your life created from the realization that AC (guy who beat Armstrong) will be back to beat the pants off the schlockmeister in this years TdF. So there ....
 

flicker

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Aug 17, 2009
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Elagabalus said:
Oh, stop it. You're just trying to rile us up to fill the void in your life created from the realization that AC (guy who beat Armstrong) will be back to beat the pants off the schlockmeister in this years TdF. So there ....
That Alberto guy, GRRR!!!! The defeater of the magnifecund quest for 8!!!!

GRRR!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Benotti69 said:
no it didn't, another myth that has been perpetrated by the fans to try and justify his doping. he doped since he was a teenage traithlete, he doped on the TdF before 1999. he got the best doping doctor in 1999 and got him exclusively that is why he won. end of.
Basso, Ullrich, Pantani, all started doping when exactly?
Who says Ferrari was the best doping doctor?
Cecchini and Conconi were both prolific when it came to working with GT winners.

Talk about myths.
 
Feb 4, 2011
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flicker said:
I don't know why but I see more "Lance" accesories and posters in bike shops than any other posters, accsesories. Coincidence?
definitely not coincidence...at one time anything the guy touched turned to gold.
 
May 22, 2009
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Ah, the clinic, the place men who never got to bully anyone at school come to use their faceless anonymity to vent years of built up cynicism by insulting people on the Internet and acting like children in-between over analysing every single comment/action by riders to make it fit their pretermined version if events...only good thing about Lance's retirement is that this might stop, but I'm sure the hatred will just be transferred to someone else.
 
He hasn't won anything in years, and hasn't seriously competed in a single race for overall victory in years. Maybe now he won't make the news as much that he's gone.

Thought he was going to ride the new Coors' Classic this year? I imagine if he's not embroiled in court he'll be there as an honorary.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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andy1234 said:
Basso, Ullrich, Pantani, all started doping when exactly?
Who says Ferrari was the best doping doctor?
Cecchini and Conconi were both prolific when it came to working with GT winners.

Talk about myths.
Richard Virenque said Ferrari was the best doping Doctor and wanted to go to him but Voet told him not to as going to Ferrari was like "sticking a saucepan up your arse", it was so obvious.

Who did Ferrari work for after 99? LA and some of USPS team - amazing how some of LA's domestiques were outclimbing some of Cecchini and Conconi's customers?
 
SC1990 said:
Ah, the clinic, the place men who never got to bully anyone at school come to use their faceless anonymity to vent years of built up cynicism by insulting people on the Internet and acting like children in-between over analysing every single comment/action by riders to make it fit their pretermined version if events...only good thing about Lance's retirement is that this might stop, but I'm sure the hatred will just be transferred to someone else.
So if it stopped we'd be bad because we only picked on your little hero, and if we keep after the other dopers then we are just "transferring the hate". It almost seems like you are gonna hate us no matter what we do. Do you just love doping? Or do you just not get any other chances in your life to feel superior to anyone? How lucky for you that you did get to be a bully at school, I never really tried it myself so I guess I don't know what I'm missing. As for the faceless anonymity, is 1990 really your last name?
 
Dr. Maserati said:
Richard Virenque said Ferrari was the best doping Doctor and wanted to go to him but Voet told him not to as going to Ferrari was like "sticking a saucepan up your arse", it was so obvious.

Who did Ferrari work for after 99? LA and some of USPS team - amazing how some of LA's domestiques were outclimbing some of Cecchini and Conconi's customers?
Merckx seemed to hold him in high regard as well, didn't he introduce Lance to him?
 
With Lance gone sportscasters will have to look for different riders to interview/get comments from at the races. About time. Looking forward to hearing from other cyclists. Always enjoyed it when LA did not talk to the media, meant the sportscasters had to talk to other guys...well unless they were chasing Lance or hovering around his bus/car for a comment.
 
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