Nah, let's keep our comments mean and dirty as a homage to Lance's legacy.Barrus said:People, please keep the comments nice and clean and do not attack one another personally, lets just keep things civil. It would be much appreciated
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Nah, let's keep our comments mean and dirty as a homage to Lance's legacy.Barrus said:People, please keep the comments nice and clean and do not attack one another personally, lets just keep things civil. It would be much appreciated
hrotha said:Nah, let's keep our comments mean and dirty as a homage to Lance's legacy.
RGScales said:...So do you hate him or just cyclists in general?
This is a false statement. The U.S. cycling industry did not grow because of his fantastic record of TdF wins. It didn't grow when LeMond won a bunch either.RGScales said:I was just stating that he has changed the way that cycling is viewed by people and brought a lot of people into this sport that otherwise wouldn't have dared put on spandex.
RGScales said:After Lance came around, a lot more bikes started going out the door and my family became a lot more comfortable....
RGScales said:I feel like the statement I made initially was a valid statement. There are many things that are said on these threads that I completely disagree with and if I decide to respond to one of those things I certainly try and do it with as much respect and civility as possible. The fact that at the end of the day, I am an Armstrong fan, seems akin to being a fan of Hitler. It is frustrating that a person cannot make a statement one way or another about one of the most influential figures in OUR sport without immediately summoning every miserable comment that every person who dislikes him has to offer. I HATE Contador, but I certainly can discuss him and whatever situation is around him at the time without having to resort to saying that I think that he is a terrible roll model for any kid dreaming of riding in the Tour de France and not remotely because of the allegations against him.
I saw the title of this thread and thought that perhaps I may find a few comments about some of Lance's contributions to the sport instead the title of this thread was a statement of open season for everyone that dislikes him to make people that have a single fond memory of his career feel like fools.
Lastly, I am very sorry that you have a hard time encouraging youngsters to pursue a dream of cycling. I completely understand why and can absolutely empathize with it but it is indeed a sad statement of the condition of our sport.
Please do not take anything that I just said as an aggressive response but I did want to answer the question that you posed and I hope that I answered it satisfactorily.
Fausto's Schnauzer said:It's finally over. :
Fausto's Schnauzer said:It's finally over. When he first came on the scene I followed Lance's career with interest. He was brash, strong and his in-your-face attitude was refreshing. While I didn't think he'd ever be a TdF contender, I knew that he'd be in the hunt for lots of stage wins and such.
I was saddened by his bout with cancer, inspired by his comeback and impressed with his media and marketing savvy; so much so that the company I worked for in 1999 sought him out to endorse a product that we were about to launch. He initially took our calls personally and had agreed verbally to our proposals. But as summer came we ended up dealing with first an agent and then an attorney. Then of course he won his first Tour de France and all communication ceased. Zilch, nada, no phone calls, e-mails or letters were ever returned again.
The monetary value of our deal was admittedly very modest for a TdF winner and while we were disappointed, I understood that he had much bigger checks to cash I a let it go. I was still a big fan.
Then came the Dr. Ferrari revelations and the Greg Lemond comments...which I felt were completely relevant and appropriate for Greg to have made. I knew that Greg was also a fan and that he was sincerely disappointed.
Then I heard rumblings from folks within the industry, people connected to US Postal. I heard more thinly veiled comments about Lance from two of his team-mates. One even admitted to using a banned substance under orders of Johan and with the knowledge of Lance (Did you know that a rider who doesn't finish a stage isn't tested?).
I wanted to still believe, I really did. But the more I learned, the closer I looked, the more I found that didn't add up. From his written-by-a-lawyer responses to reporters questions "I never tested positive for any banned substance," to anecdotal revelations from riders and insiders, to the 1999 sample re-test, the back-dated TUE, his campaign against Lemond, the lying about his weight and VO2 max numbers, his vilification of Simeoni, it all added up to someone who I find difficult to admire as a person.
True, you can't make a race horse out of a draft horse, Lance is a unique specimen. And yes history shows that any doping he did pretty much made it a level playing field. But his steadfast denial of the truth, his pomposity, his apparent belief in his own myth and his hiding behind the Livestrong banner are what trouble me about Lance.
What statistics are you using to make the statement that the cycling industry did not grow in America with Lance's success. As I was not in business when Lemond was racing I cannot speak to that but I am scratching my head about the "Lance Era" statement.DirtyWorks said:Your response is to give the OP two false choices? Please, try again.
This is a false statement. The U.S. cycling industry did not grow because of his fantastic record of TdF wins. It didn't grow when LeMond won a bunch either.
Facts please. What shop? What kind of bikes? Were there any other regional/local factors? Better road access perhaps? New employer in the area? What about the cost structure of the shop changed that you were suddenly more wealthy? PM me the shop if you don't want to share it. I won't share the shop name.
Anyone in the industry knows the bikes are no-margin. It's the accessories sold with the bike and perhaps some follow-on sales/service that keep a shop going.
I'm willing to believe your story. I need more facts to verify. But industry norms are working against you...
I suppose that saying that I hate Contador is a pretty strong statement as I have never met him...there are certain things about him however, that I just dont care for...most of them difficult to put a finger on I suppose. I think that my distaste for him started in 2009 I was not impressed by the way that he seemed to divide his team. I know that the argument could be correctly made that Lance did the same but I guess its just the way that I see it. The other thing that sticks out in my mind is the "chaingate" incident with Andy Schleck. I completely understand that Sanchez and Menchov were up the road and that he needed to respond to that but there were other ways of responding than to attack the yellow jersey on a mechanical.JMBeaushrimp said:Why do you hate Alberto?
RGScales said:What statistics are you using to make the statement that the cycling industry did not grow in America with Lance's success. As I was not in business when Lemond was racing I cannot speak to that but I am scratching my head about the "Lance Era" statement.
flicker said:I don't know why but I see more "Lance" accesories and posters in bike shops than any other posters, accsesories. Coincidence?
Elagabalus said:Oh, stop it. You're just trying to rile us up to fill the void in your life created from the realization that AC (guy who beat Armstrong) will be back to beat the pants off the schlockmeister in this years TdF. So there ....
Benotti69 said:no it didn't, another myth that has been perpetrated by the fans to try and justify his doping. he doped since he was a teenage traithlete, he doped on the TdF before 1999. he got the best doping doctor in 1999 and got him exclusively that is why he won. end of.
definitely not coincidence...at one time anything the guy touched turned to gold.flicker said:I don't know why but I see more "Lance" accesories and posters in bike shops than any other posters, accsesories. Coincidence?
Richard Virenque said Ferrari was the best doping Doctor and wanted to go to him but Voet told him not to as going to Ferrari was like "sticking a saucepan up your arse", it was so obvious.andy1234 said:Basso, Ullrich, Pantani, all started doping when exactly?
Who says Ferrari was the best doping doctor?
Cecchini and Conconi were both prolific when it came to working with GT winners.
Talk about myths.
SC1990 said:Ah, the clinic, the place men who never got to bully anyone at school come to use their faceless anonymity to vent years of built up cynicism by insulting people on the Internet and acting like children in-between over analysing every single comment/action by riders to make it fit their pretermined version if events...only good thing about Lance's retirement is that this might stop, but I'm sure the hatred will just be transferred to someone else.
Dr. Maserati said:Richard Virenque said Ferrari was the best doping Doctor and wanted to go to him but Voet told him not to as going to Ferrari was like "sticking a saucepan up your arse", it was so obvious.
Who did Ferrari work for after 99? LA and some of USPS team - amazing how some of LA's domestiques were outclimbing some of Cecchini and Conconi's customers?