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Nibali already matched Armstrong for climbing in 2009 and he took significant time on Klöden. Arstrong beat him on the ITT, TTT and the crosswind breakaway.Galic Ho said:
Cerberus said:
Admittedly I did not factor in the TTT. Even then Armstrong and Nibali yoyo. Prologue, Armstrong wins. Andorra, both are even. Rest of the Pyrenees are a no show. Alps, stage 15 Verbier, Nibali gets 20 maybe 30 seconds back. Next day is another no show. Stage 17, Nibali holds on until the last climb and Lance makes a move and gains some time. It was good enough to drop Wiggins and Nibali. Stage 20, Mt Ventoux, Nibali looses a little time to Lance. Also the only stage he took time on Kloden, apart from Verbier, where Kloden shepherded Lance. Kloden flogged himself for the team. He was stronger than Lance. His ITT showed that. His climbing would have as well had he not blown 2 minutes on stage 17. Take out the TTT and Nibali has a approximately a minute deficit. But he is very close and likely improvements I believe, will see him holding company with the Shack squad. I expect Basso and Wiggins to be somewhere near here as well.
Nibali caught up on the descent and lost no time to Armstrong on stage 17.Galic Ho said:
Galic Ho said:
Yes, but 41 seconds of those came from the side wind break on stage 3. If you take that out as well there's very little difference left.
I agree with that. Leaving out the TTT which won't be there next year and the side-wind break which might not be there next year there was very little difference in strength between positions 3-7 in the GC.Galic Ho said:
La<ac
I am not here to impress anyone and furthermore I am not attempting to pull any sort of rank. You made a superficial challenge to my first post writing it off summarily which is hardly a reasonable reply in any circumstances [Terry advises us not “to slam” and “to be respectful” in our mutual etiquette – thankfully others like “Senior Member” Mellow Velo, are]. The subsequent reply would have been unnecessary if you had been able to reply more objectively. This would have made for a much more congenial discussion. I thought “Cycling News” forums were a place for respectful discussions about cycling matters. My post is a serious & genuine one based on serious considerations but not serious & genuine enough for you, evidently. One can tell by the way you write that you are very quickly on the defensive and feel you have to impress everyone yourself - "I knew this was coming" etc., etc. Your style is predictable too. By the way it is spelled "knew" not "new" & “your” not “you opinions” - this demonstrates that you are so quick to justify yourself & have a go at me that you do not pay attention to your spelling. Try not to be so reactive and put yourself in a spirit of discussion rather than antagonism.
As I have stated: these are my perspectives based on my own particular observations which do have some solid informed basis, with examples quoted but I admitted too that I am not infallible.
Moreover, if LA were not puerile then he would not feel the need to keep goading AC & trying to wind him up across the media - this is a clear sign of immature behaviour. We have seen this in the peloton as well where he feels the need to impress others with his actions. A real champion who is self-confident rises above this genre of demeanour. He was inappropriate making divisive public statements against AC during the TdF 2009. This is certainly not the mark of a mature champion to downgrade a team member in public because he has performed better than him. It displays all the insecurities of a man who has no peace within himself.
Why are you so defensive? What are you afraid of? Do evaluative comments about Lance upset you? I am a fan of neither AC nor LA but even if I were I would consider any point of appraisal for discussion rather than abrupt dismissal.
You can have the final word on this if you like.
Carboncrank said:
I am not here to impress anyone and furthermore I am not attempting to pull any sort of rank. You made a superficial challenge to my first post writing it off summarily which is hardly a reasonable reply in any circumstances [Terry advises us not “to slam” and “to be respectful” in our mutual etiquette – thankfully others like “Senior Member” Mellow Velo, are]. The subsequent reply would have been unnecessary if you had been able to reply more objectively. This would have made for a much more congenial discussion. I thought “Cycling News” forums were a place for respectful discussions about cycling matters. My post is a serious & genuine one based on serious considerations but not serious & genuine enough for you, evidently. One can tell by the way you write that you are very quickly on the defensive and feel you have to impress everyone yourself - "I knew this was coming" etc., etc. Your style is predictable too. By the way it is spelled "knew" not "new" & “your” not “you opinions” - this demonstrates that you are so quick to justify yourself & have a go at me that you do not pay attention to your spelling. Try not to be so reactive and put yourself in a spirit of discussion rather than antagonism.
As I have stated: these are my perspectives based on my own particular observations which do have some solid informed basis, with examples quoted but I admitted too that I am not infallible.
Moreover, if LA were not puerile then he would not feel the need to keep goading AC & trying to wind him up across the media - this is a clear sign of immature behaviour. We have seen this in the peloton as well where he feels the need to impress others with his actions. A real champion who is self-confident rises above this genre of demeanour. He was inappropriate making divisive public statements against AC during the TdF 2009. This is certainly not the mark of a mature champion to downgrade a team member in public because he has performed better than him. It displays all the insecurities of a man who has no peace within himself.
Why are you so defensive? What are you afraid of? Do evaluative comments about Lance upset you? I am a fan of neither AC nor LA but even if I were I would consider any point of appraisal for discussion rather than abrupt dismissal.
You can have the final word on this if you like.
LeonG2010 said:
what would you know about Lance, Nothing thats what. Lance is a great man bacause he lets us know whats going on with the new Team Lance through Twitter. I have a commerce degree, so I understand.
People in this forum just want to bag Lance but I bet they havnt even read his Twitter and therefor dont know how great he is. They dont even think he will win the tour for another seven years.
LeonG2010 said:
I don't know about the rest of your posint, but you have got to be kidding saying that
progressor said:
Yeah. Its like thay wernt even using english, i cooldnt undastand at all. Were those even words
".......too many unknowns with both."
"I have a feeling that the mountains will determine more this year."
Thank you for such a detailed reply. There is plenty to mull over. Certainly, Wiggins is still an unknown quantity since last year may have been an unusual result though he is a character who is very determined to make the grade as a serious TdF contender and he has had an outstanding career so far but not as a grand tour competitor, of course. However, in discussion with a PE colleague at work the other day we agreed that Sky in their first year may not be able to give him the support he requires even though his training is specifically geared to a podium place and even the yellow jersey, at some point. He remains a dark horse to a great extent. Vandevelde reminds me a little of Leipheimer in that he is very talented but there are weaknesses in the mountains when the pressure is on.
Yes, TdF 2010 is all about the mountains. The removal of the TTT which does not help LA at all & the relatively short ITT mean it ought to be decided there. Your first three placings are reasonable, therefore, if there are no injuries or abstentions. I cannot see Cavendish with the green jersey in Paris either with this Tour profile.
"I have a feeling that the mountains will determine more this year."
Thank you for such a detailed reply. There is plenty to mull over. Certainly, Wiggins is still an unknown quantity since last year may have been an unusual result though he is a character who is very determined to make the grade as a serious TdF contender and he has had an outstanding career so far but not as a grand tour competitor, of course. However, in discussion with a PE colleague at work the other day we agreed that Sky in their first year may not be able to give him the support he requires even though his training is specifically geared to a podium place and even the yellow jersey, at some point. He remains a dark horse to a great extent. Vandevelde reminds me a little of Leipheimer in that he is very talented but there are weaknesses in the mountains when the pressure is on.
Yes, TdF 2010 is all about the mountains. The removal of the TTT which does not help LA at all & the relatively short ITT mean it ought to be decided there. Your first three placings are reasonable, therefore, if there are no injuries or abstentions. I cannot see Cavendish with the green jersey in Paris either with this Tour profile.
Cerberus said:
Can't say I remember how that ended. I know he caught up on the second last hill. Was that the Roseland or Grand Bornand? I've got it taped on my HD recorder, I'll watch it in a few hours when the tv is free.
Who to Kloden or Nibali? It was both I believe. Doesn't matter. Lance, Kloden and Nibali, plus Wiggins for that matter, when the TTT and break on stage 3 are removed were all very similar. Nibali lost time in his ITT to all of them, but he was only 23, he'll improve the most.
It's 2010 all ready. You don't have to wait a year.
Thanks though for the corrections. Agree with the lack of differences between 3-7. Unfortunately I see them all dropping places to the guys I mentioned before. There will be lots of guys battling all over the place. It might pay to try and make an earlier break or send a teammate up the road. Will be an interesting July.WonderLance said:
Personally I think WonderLance is the sockpuppet of one of the regular members and appears seldom-ly in the 'insider anti-troll troll' mode. It is a trolling post on the surface, but look closer an essentially it is mimicking through impersonation all of what trolls commonly say.
Big GMaC said:
I think we have several members like that. Wonderlance, Speedway, fpcycling, etc. all act the same. About once a week they come here, make a few posts crying about how Armstrong is unloved here, then go away.
If this site were run properly, the admin would periodically being checking for identical IP addresses and demanding an explanation when he finds them.
BroDeal said:
but wonderlance is funny, the others are not... they just act like retards, he actually subverts in a comical way...
WonderLance said:
love it. The post that is, not cancer.
I hate cancer.
It's bad.
My grandfather died of it in 1984.
I also studied Oncology at Uni between 1997-2000.
But it was only when Lance came along that I truly became aware of cancer.
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