Articles about $10,000 bikes - What's the point?

[Parera]

can you provide a definition or link
I don't think you built an article around Christian head gear, a video game or type of parachute jump
urban dictionary defines halo as an electronic circle jerk
maybe that's what you mean - a bunch of bike geeks getting off looking at expensive bike porn on the internet?

Do people not know how to use the dictionary?

"the aura of glory, veneration, or sentiment surrounding an idealized person or thing"

And if you are trying to be funny, for shame.

 

[Martin318is]

And yet, prior to this article, had you actually heard the "halo" term used to describe the flagship models of each company?

I know that I hadn't - and I'm certain that outside this forum, if I go to a shop that stopcks such models, I still won't hear the term used.

 

[Parera]

And yet, prior to this article, had you actually heard the "halo" term used to describe the flagship models of each company?

I know that I hadn't - and I'm certain that outside this forum, if I go to a shop that stopcks such models, I still won't hear the term used.

/shrug

I read a lot of books, so the term is not unfamiliar to me.

 

[Martin318is]

/shrug

I read a lot of books, so the term is not unfamiliar to me.

you completely missed the point.

Everybody knows what Halo means. My question is, have you ever heard it used in reference to bikes? And suddenly we have an article where the term is used ever 20 words and a forum discussion where people are suddenly using it.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

And yet, prior to this article, had you actually heard the "halo" term used to describe the flagship models of each company?

I know that I hadn't - and I'm certain that outside this forum, if I go to a shop that stopcks such models, I still won't hear the term used.

Never heard "halo" to describe pinnacle, or top shelf bikes until now, but I'll use it from now on. Only four letters to get the point across, winner.

 

[BroDeal]

you completely missed the point.

Everybody knows what Halo means. My question is, have you ever heard it used in reference to bikes? And suddenly we have an article where the term is used ever 20 words and a forum discussion where people are suddenly using it.

The term is often used for cars. Dodge's halo car, the Viper, is supposed to deflect the ridicule of Dodge being the brand of vehicle that a hapless Al Bundy drove. It has not worked so far.

The problem here is that for most of the listed bikes the only halo thing about them is their cost. While Specialized can use McLaren's supposed help to sell its bike, what aside from the jacked up price makes the Cannondale or Felt a halo. As I pointed out earlier, custom made carbon bikes can be bought for the same or less money. So these alleged halo bikes fall woefully short of being best in class.

 

[Martin318is]

valid point. I wouldn't have used the term to describe a top end trek or pinarello etc.

The Venge is up there as are a few manufacturer's bikes.

However, the likes of "Ferrari by Colnago" seem to fit the article better. Essentially the same bike with a different paint job and stickers and lob the price up by 50-100%.

 

[laziali]

However, the likes of "Ferrari by Colnago" seem to fit the article better. Essentially the same bike with a different paint job and stickers and lob the price up by 50-100%.

Yes, exactly.

More importantly though, these sort of articles become a tiresome proxy discussion point for the whole class-warfare debate that still infects general discourse.

The OP nailed this with his income distribution growth chart. There is no such thing as standardised value for subjective purchase decisions. I have several "halo" bikes as do my riding buddies. We all fall within the top 2% income grouping and so $10k+ is insignificant compared with what we spend on property, cars, holidays and that other little foible of middle aged men. Ie, it doesn't require us to forego other items and therefore whether it is $5k, $10k or $20k is an irrelevancy.

That's the way capitalism works and there really is nothing else to say.

 

[bc_hills]

Yes, exactly.

More importantly though, these sort of articles become a tiresome proxy discussion point for the whole class-warfare debate that still infects general discourse.

The OP nailed this with his income distribution growth chart. There is no such thing as standardised value for subjective purchase decisions. I have several "halo" bikes as do my riding buddies. We all fall within the top 2% income grouping and so $10k+ is insignificant compared with what we spend on property, cars, holidays and that other little foible of middle aged men. Ie, it doesn't require us to forego other items and therefore whether it is $5k, $10k or $20k is an irrelevancy.

That's the way capitalism works and there really is nothing else to say.

Nobody is complaining that some people can afford to drop serious money on a bike. It's just a question of what they're dropping it on.

It's a question of taste, or the lack of it. It's also a question of being on the inside or outside of these kinds of discussions. Most people are outside of them, don't read forums like this, and take a shop's word for it regarding real value in bikes. So it's pretty unfair to rag on "fred's" with $9,000 bikes. I bet most were just following what they took to be good advice.

Before starting to follow this forum and following up on leads or suggestions found here, I assumed that the best bike you get for your money was whatever (insert whatever brand you want here) told me was the best. Now I know different, and it's a relief!

Just because a $10,000 bike is "insignificant" in terms of a person's disposable income, it doesn't mean that it's good value for the dollar. Presumably that matters, even to the rich.

 

[biker77]

Yes, exactly.

More importantly though, these sort of articles become a tiresome proxy discussion point for the whole class-warfare debate that still infects general discourse.

The OP nailed this with his income distribution growth chart. There is no such thing as standardised value for subjective purchase decisions. I have several "halo" bikes as do my riding buddies. We all fall within the top 2% income grouping and so $10k+ is insignificant compared with what we spend on property, cars, holidays and that other little foible of middle aged men. Ie, it doesn't require us to forego other items and therefore whether it is $5k, $10k or $20k is an irrelevancy.

That's the way capitalism works and there really is nothing else to say.

I think the thread is more about what purpose these bikes serve, not that people such as yourself can afford them.

The manufacturers claim it helps push engineering to the limit and I can believe that is true to an extent. The advances forward though are so small that these bikes really represent extremely poor value for money.

So what is the motivation for buying such a bike? It is not performance as less expensive bikes are equal, and it is not fit as custom is available for less.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I think the thread is more about what purpose these bikes serve, not that people such as yourself can afford them.

The manufacturers claim it helps push engineering to the limit and I can believe that is true to an extent. The advances forward though are so small that these bikes really represent extremely poor value for money.

So what is the motivation for buying such a bike? It is not performance as less expensive bikes are equal, and it is not fit as custom is available for less.

It's all about status. 'Look at me, I can afford stuff most people can't'. We're all very impressed.

 

[Rrrrrr]

halo or 'halo'

Do people not know how to use the dictionary?

"the aura of glory, veneration, or sentiment surrounding an idealized person or thing"

And if you are trying to be funny, for shame.

I have never heard of 'halo' being used for any consumer item before and I thought the apostrophes (' ') implied some additional nudge nudge wink wink context for the cool hipster kids.
Perhaps it was the new buzz word at Interbike or it was something from the world's reportedly most popular computer game?
So I did look in the dictionarys first and the urban dictionary definition seemed to fit the best.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I think the thread is more about what purpose these bikes serve, not that people such as yourself can afford them.

The manufacturers claim it helps push engineering to the limit and I can believe that is true to an extent. The advances forward though are so small that these bikes really represent extremely poor value for money.

So what is the motivation for buying such a bike? It is not performance as less expensive bikes are equal, and it is not fit as custom is available for less.

The engineering push forward argument is specious at best. In rare cases, yes, R&D advances are implemented in production. R&D is expensive. Crazy expensive. That's why a companies that copies the innovator is more often the successful one.

The $10,000 bike is a different market with a different kind of buyer than any other bicycle market segment. The market for art is similar. It's about the cost of the bike. This kind of buyer is very social status sensitive and it shows in material acquisitions. It has nothing to do with the version of capitalism practiced.

 

[laziali]

It's all about status. 'Look at me, I can afford stuff most people can't'. We're all very impressed.

Without doubt, RDV4R, but status in the eyes of ones peers, not in the eyes of other passing cyclists and motorists. That's why the top income bracket still perceive themselves as poor (http://www.splashlife.com/article/more-money-more-problems-why-wealthy-feel-poor) - benchmarking is against peers and not the general public.

There are other reasons too, as well as status. This is, of course, anecdotal but I'll warrant it's common amongst those who own "halo" bikes:

- For those of us who no longer race, the only competition is our riding group. Performance level variations within one's core riding group tend to be very small - eg +/- 5% because over time the composition of the core self-selects. Therefore, equipment that gives even a minor actual or perceived (the effect of confidence on performance is well known) benefit has a greater relevant impact. In combination, it can be the difference between getting beat and doing the beating.

- "Rewarding" oneself with halo items is one of the few ways to make a discretionary spending decision purely for oneself. And for those whose other purchases are for the family (ie property, school fees, travel, credits cars for the wife etc), buying something purely for oneself is disproportionately pleasurable.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Without doubt, RDV4R, but status in the eyes of ones peers, not in the eyes of other passing cyclists and motorists. That's why the top income bracket still perceive themselves as poor (http://www.splashlife.com/article/more-money-more-problems-why-wealthy-feel-poor) - benchmarking is against peers and not the general public.

There are other reasons too, as well as status. This is, of course, anecdotal but I'll warrant it's common amongst those who own "halo" bikes:

- For those of us who no longer race, the only competition is our riding group. Performance level variations within one's core riding group tend to be very small - eg +/- 5% because over time the composition of the core self-selects. Therefore, equipment that gives even a minor actual or perceived (the effect of confidence on performance is well known) benefit has a greater relevant impact. In combination, it can be the difference between getting beat and doing the beating.

- "Rewarding" oneself with halo items is one of the few ways to make a discretionary spending decision purely for oneself. And for those whose other purchases are for the family (ie property, school fees, travel, credits cars for the wife etc), buying something purely for oneself is disproportionately pleasurable.

Thing is that I just don't have any respect for the 'because I can buy it' mentality of some of the wealthy out there. I'm thankful to have many friends that run the gamut of tax brackets and the ones that hold financial wealth are very modest about it, are smart enough to make their gear purchases based on practicality first, and would never in a million years talk about their wealth on a internet forum. We don't know what halo bikes you and your riding partners ride, but I'm willing to bet you could have got a much better one for slightly less money. The argument that you can buy it because your bank account allows you to is so cliché sorry to say. Over here we're more impressed with athletic ability than the gear you've got, or what your bank account looks like. Cut from a different cloth I suppose.

 

[laziali]

Thing is that I just don't have any respect for the 'because I can buy it' mentality of some of the wealthy out there. I'm thankful to have many friends that run the gamut of tax brackets and the ones that hold financial wealth are very modest about it, are smart enough to make their gear purchases based on practicality first, and would never in a million years talk about their wealth on a internet forum. We don't know what halo bikes you and your riding partners ride, but I'm willing to bet you could have got a much better one for slightly less money. The argument that you can buy it because your bank account allows you to is so cliché sorry to say. Over here we're more impressed with athletic ability than the gear you've got, or what your bank account looks like. Cut from a different cloth I suppose.

First bold bit - really??? First time cyclingnews.com forum has been accused of being homogenous. Of course, athletic ability, quality of gear and wealth are not mutually exclusive as you seem to think. Also, given our "halo" bikes are as ridden in the ProTour (and in one case was ridden in the PT), your comment that one could get a better bike lacks credibility. Or do you think Jensen button could be faster in a custom Caterham - lol.

Second bold bit - you got it mine would be holland & sherry and yours would be Castro polyester. Different. Not better or worse.

 

[biker77]

First bold bit - really??? First time cyclingnews.com forum has been accused of being homogenous. Of course, athletic ability, quality of gear and wealth are not mutually exclusive as you seem to think. Also, given our "halo" bikes are as ridden in the ProTour (and in one case was ridden in the PT), your comment that one could get a better bike lacks credibility. Or do you think Jensen button could be faster in a custom Caterham - lol.

Second bold bit - you got it mine would be holland & sherry and yours would be Castro polyester. Different. Not better or worse.

Plenty of protour teams ride sram. Can you get a better groupset?

 

[Benotti69]

Plenty of protour teams ride sram. Can you get a better groupset?

Plenty of protour teams are paid big money to use sram.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

It looks like a test for intelligence and discrimination of goods to me. It's like someone buying a $500K Yugo instead of a Ferrari. You can buy custom made, custom sized, and custom painted carbon from Serotta, Cyfac, Crumpton, Parlee, et cetera, yet some people are stupid enough to pay more money for a stock frame popped out of a mold in China. Heck, for about 4K you can get a custom stainless steel frame made by Dario Pegoretti, one of the last great master framebuilders. The pricing of this junk from Specialized et al. makes no sense. It's for people with no taste.

Exactly. However, the people who buy $15,000 Specialized bikes or $11,000 Treks aren't all that savvy. They're just loaded and think that riding a bike like that is a status symbol.

These brands just pop our mass-produced frames from China. Absolutely nothing remotely exclusive or special about these frames. Pinarello is the same. They just pop them out from Carbotec in Taiwan. Nice looking frames, etc. (I owned a Prince), but nothing remotely worth what they charge.

If you're going to drop that kind of dough on stock frames, buy a Time or a Cyfac or a Colnago.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

First bold bit - really??? First time cyclingnews.com forum has been accused of being homogenous. Of course, athletic ability, quality of gear and wealth are not mutually exclusive as you seem to think. Also, given our "halo" bikes are as ridden in the ProTour (and in one case was ridden in the PT), your comment that one could get a better bike lacks credibility. Or do you think Jensen button could be faster in a custom Caterham - lol.

Second bold bit - you got it mine would be holland & sherry and yours would be Castro polyester. Different. Not better or worse.

I'll let you in on a little secret. The ProTour teams are PAID to ride those bikes. If it makes you feel better to ride a Giant knowing that Rabobank or whatever are riding it, then great. But the reason you pay a ton for your "halo" Giant is because Rabobank are getting paid to ride theirs.

Halo bikes are used by companies to subsidize team sponsorships. These bikes are Giffen goods. They sell out precisely because they cost more and appeal to a certain demographic.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

First bold bit - really??? First time cyclingnews.com forum has been accused of being homogenous. Of course, athletic ability, quality of gear and wealth are not mutually exclusive as you seem to think. Also, given our "halo" bikes are as ridden in the ProTour (and in one case was ridden in the PT), your comment that one could get a better bike lacks credibility. Or do you think Jensen button could be faster in a custom Caterham - lol.

Second bold bit - you got it mine would be holland & sherry and yours would be Castro polyester. Different. Not better or worse.

When the discussion turns to how to make millions I'm sure you could teach us all a few things, and I won't give you static, I'd listen, your problem is that you don't. Shelling out $10k+ for an off-the-shelf bike(s), even one that was ridden in the PT is nonsensical. It's all about ego stroke for you, I understand that, you buy because you can, which you made evidently clear earlier. Reality check, you can have a much better bike custom built for you for less money (foreign concept to you, but the truth), full race carbon btw, the downside is that you can't brag to your friends that it's a PT bike, but it would be better than anything you or your friends are riding. The glitterati cyclist will never understand this because if it doesn't weigh less than my left shoe, have an outrageous price tag, or not raced by somebody famous must mean not as good quality. Dead wrong. Case of the gold plated dung pile, price it and you'll buy it. F1 and expensive suit analogies don't help your argument either, actually makes you look rather pompous sorry to say.

Maybe you buy your camping gear from Best Made Co., or something of the like because you believe a $300 axe chops wood better and more fashionably than one that costs $30. laziali, we're just going to have to agree to disagree when it comes to this topic. You buy for emotion and ego boost to keep up with the Joneses, while the rest buy for purpose and practicality, I will always side with the latter. We're both in the same sport, but it seems for very different reasons.

 

[usedtobefast]

When the discussion turns to how to make millions I'm sure you could teach us all a few things, and I won't give you static, I'd listen, your problem is that you don't. Shelling out $10k+ for an off-the-shelf bike(s), even one that was ridden in the PT is nonsensical. It's all about ego stroke for you, I understand that, you buy because you can, which you made evidently clear earlier. Reality check, you can have a much better bike custom built for you for less money (foreign concept to you, but the truth), full race carbon btw, the downside is that you can't brag to your friends that it's a PT bike, but it would be better than anything you or your friends are riding. The glitterati cyclist will never understand this because if it doesn't weigh less than my left shoe, have an outrageous price tag, or not raced by somebody famous must mean not as good quality. Dead wrong. Case of the gold plated dung pile, price it and you'll buy it. F1 and expensive suit analogies don't help your argument either, actually makes you look rather pompous sorry to say.

Maybe you buy your camping gear from Best Made Co., or something of the like because you believe a $300 axe chops wood better and more fashionably than one that costs $30. laziali, we're just going to have to agree to disagree when it comes to this topic. You buy for emotion and ego boost to keep up with the Joneses, while the rest buy for purpose and practicality, I will always side with the latter. We're both in the same sport, but it seems for very different reasons.

i have no budget myself for such things. i am lucky to have what i have. if folks want that stuff so be it,but i was never motivated by money as much as some folks are. the Venge is a cool bike, but so is my hand made Tommasini.
or my mass made Cervelo knockoff.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

i have no budget myself for such things. i am lucky to have what i have. if folks want that stuff so be it,but i was never motivated by money as much as some folks are. the Venge is a cool bike, but so is my hand made Tommasini.
or my mass made Cervelo knockoff.

I'm in total agreement with you there cousin, my gripe is with the self-absorbed attitudes that come on here bragging about wealth and the several halo bikes that them and all their friends ride thinking they're really something to behold. When in fact they're just basically riding junk that was "MARKETED" just for their set, just like that POS Venge, which I've ridden and it's just another carbon bike with millions in marketing hype around it. For the cost of a Venge I can think of 100 ways to spend your frame money more wisely, and not a penny of it is with SpecializedTrekGiantwhatevers.

 

[biker77]

I wish that I actually wanted a $10,000 bike. The appeal is just not there for me and I am conflicted if that makes me a little bit sad. Its kind of like realizing Santa is not real and all his toys are made in China.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Case in point;

S-Works McLaren Venge with Di2 $18,000 USD, no custom options, only 6 stock sizes not available in all markets, one color.

vs.

Parlee Z1 with Campagnolo Super Record $8,000 USD, full custom geometry and paint, 15 stock sizes.

I could go on for days how idiotic these so-called halo bikes are from the big brands. A freaking joke is what they are.