Articles about $10,000 bikes - What's the point?

[pedaling squares]

S-Works McLaren Venge with Di2 $18,000 USD

I hate to come across as a guy who cares what others buy or who judges them by what they ride, but my God - that is completely ***!

 

[BroDeal]

Case in point;

S-Works McLaren Venge with Di2 $18,000 USD, no custom options, only 6 stock sizes not available in all markets, one color.

vs.

Parlee Z1 with Campagnolo Super Record $8,000 USD, full custom geometry and paint, 15 stock sizes.

I could go on for days how idiotic these so-called halo bikes are from the big brands. A freaking joke is what they are.

That is my point. I am not opposed to spending big bucks on outdoor sports equipment and gear, but value can only be measured by what an equivalent amount of money can buy. These so called halo bikes from the big manufacturers should not even be called halo bikes. The only thing halo about them is their price. Compared to the made to measure frames that can be bought from other companies, they are a way over-priced marketing scam to sucker the unknowledgeable into flushing their money down the toilet.

The sad thing about your example is that at one time, not too long ago, the mark of a top end frame right below the custom level was a dozen or so stock sizes. Now the big boys have suckered people into paying money for the fewest sizes the company can get away with. Ironically a small firm like Parlee offers fifteen stock sizes, while a huge company with its vast finiancial resources gives their customers a great big FU with six stock sizes. You would think that it would be the other way around.

Some of the bikes in the article are laughable. Who here will raise their hand and say that if they were planning on spending $13K on a bike then they would buy a Felt? It's like Hyundai slapping a $150K price on a car and expecting idiots to choose one over a Mercedes AMG.

To continue RDV's comparisons, a custom carbon Serotta frame is about $9K these days. It is probably overpriced compared to other custom carbon frame makers, but it does come with something that the others don't have: Decades of experience fitting made to measure frames and data from tens of thousands of such fits. They have their own fit system, they train people to do fits, and bike shops use the fit system to fit bikes other than Serottas. Of course, the paint scheme can chosen by the customer, and the frames are made in the U.S. And even this upper end of the custom market is still cheaper than the Specialized. That is totally farked up.

 

[laziali]

That's funny RDV4R. When I used to race way back in the 80 and early 90s I always rode custom steel (Columbus slx tubes from memory built by the likes of Ken Evans of world championship winning frames). But you, with your inexplicable anger, think I know nothing about custom. \facepalm. Then I raced frames I was given including a custom steel Colnago.

I happen to consider my Colnago c59 the finest frame I have ever ridden, including my steel Master. But hey, what do I know ...

 

[biker77]

That's funny RDV4R. When I used to race way back in the 80 and early 90s I always rode custom steel (Columbus slx tubes from memory built by the likes of Ken Evans of world championship winning frames). But you, with your inexplicable anger, think I know nothing about custom. \facepalm. Then I raced frames I was given including a custom steel Colnago.

I happen to consider my Colnago c59 the finest frame I have ever ridden, including my steel Master. But hey, what do I know ...

You were advocating the Halo bikes were the best that can be bought because they are raced in the protour. Other posters have pointed out that the big manufacturers have managed to get cheap to produce frames at their top pricepoint while the smaller guys have to offer more options and better service to compete and at lower price.

Its like a polyester suit being more expensive than Holland and Sherry. Although in that case, I think you would be wearing polyester to match your bike.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

That's funny RDV4R. When I used to race way back in the 80 and early 90s I always rode custom steel (Columbus slx tubes from memory built by the likes of Ken Evans of world championship winning frames). But you, with your inexplicable anger, think I know nothing about custom. \facepalm. Then I raced frames I was given including a custom steel Colnago.

I happen to consider my Colnago c59 the finest frame I have ever ridden, including my steel Master. But hey, what do I know ...

Well, seems like you really don't know what you're talking about because your C59 isn't Colnago's halo bike, It's the CF8. You're about $7 grand short of Colnago's halo. But I am glad that you brought up Colnago, he is the originator of the "halo" bike when he released the CF1 in the mid 90's in collaboration with Ferarri. A C59 and EPQ are standard issue Colnago race frames, there's nothing "halo" about it except for the price, which Colnago as always been a more expensive than most just due to the history of the man, true innovation comes with a price. I also raced on a Colnago Master, still have it, and I'm saving up for an EPQ, because I too think that Colnago makes the absolute finest racing bikes out there. Granted I do not fit the demographic of the typical Colnago rider, even being in the industry at the wholesale price I get gear at an EPQ is still a stretch for my checkbook.

Going back to the article and this absolutely *** notion of "trickle down technology" that these halo bikes are credited for. It's complete BS! Anybody that knows bikes can see clearly through this smoke screen. A Colnago CF8 is a limited run, over-glorified C59 with a Ferrari painted on, so that justifies $7g more. Same goes for the S-Works McLaren Venge, basically a retooled pancaked out Tarmac with a McLaren decal, so they jack the price $7g again. These bikes are made and marketed for the ultra-rich, and make a few people at the very top of these companies and their collaborators a lot of extra money. They offer just about nothing in technological advancement of race frames, it's all about marketing and profits. Ever since the advent of carbon in race bikes it's become a rich man's game, and it's been a perfect platform for the blindingly greedy aspect of the rest of the business world to infiltrate the bike industry. Shame.

 

[biker77]

RDV - suprised you would pay so much for lugged carbon. Surely this is an outdated manufacturing technique?

 

[laziali]

Who cares if it's lugged? One of the few things RDV and I seem to agree upon in how good the c59 is. Don't rate it until you've ridden it.

And btw, Holland & Sherry make wool fabric for suits, not suits. That's what my tailor's for. The whole point of my reference in fact. Nevermind ...

 

[usedtobefast]

I'm in total agreement with you there cousin, my gripe is with the self-absorbed attitudes that come on here bragging about wealth and the several halo bikes that them and all their friends ride thinking they're really something to behold. When in fact they're just basically riding junk that was "MARKETED" just for their set, just like that POS Venge, which I've ridden and it's just another carbon bike with millions in marketing hype around it. For the cost of a Venge I can think of 100 ways to spend your frame money more wisely, and not a penny of it is with SpecializedTrekGiantwhatevers.

and i agree with you as well. that is too damn much for a bike,imo.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

RDV - suprised you would pay so much for lugged carbon. Surely this is an outdated manufacturing technique?

The price is unavoidable, even at wholesale price for me, and heck, it's a Colnago! If carbon lugs are outdated then why does Colnago have no less than 3 out of the 4 of his race frame line up in lugged carbon, and why is it still raced on a International level? It's because, what most people don't understand about Colnago, is that he is the master of bike fit. All of his lugged carbon frames are available in both sloping and traditional geometry for a total of 22 sizes per model. That's huge, HUGE! This is something you cannot do with monocoque frames, that's why you normally see only 5 or 6 sizes available from most mfg's, and expensive to tool as well, 1 mold per size, cheaper if Asian built like everything else out there. Even Colnago's monocoque offerings are available in 8 sizes, which is more than most. Difference in performance, well currently I have 2 monocoque bikes, one road, one CX and can't tell the difference from my thousands of hours training and racing on C40's and 50's towards the end of my career. On paper monocoque is stiffer, but I can't tell, it's more of a marketing key word used to sell bikes, same as weight.

Sure, from an aesthetic perspective I can see why people think carbon may look outdated with lugs I guess. Personally, I absolutely love the look of carbon lugged bikes, especially in traditional geometry because it reminds me of my old MasterXLight but in carbon form. I'm just glad Ernesto stayed true to his roots when it came to carbon and bike fit, because so many others have strayed away from that.

Biker 77, you're just going to have to ride one to get my point. Nothing what anyone writes on this forum could really describe what a Colnago feels like to ride, like a dream.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Who cares if it's lugged? One of the few things RDV and I seem to agree upon in how good the c59 is. Don't rate it until you've ridden it.

And btw, Holland & Sherry make wool fabric for suits, not suits. That's what my tailor's for. The whole point of my reference in fact. Nevermind ...

Jesus H. Christ laziali, you're really flogging the dead horse with this exclusive wears crap. I'm just wondering why it took you so many posts to spit out the Colnago factor, which is something we actually do have in common. Finally! Looks like you're going to have to step up to Colnago's real(subjective) halo bike and spend more of that disposable income, and this whole time you had me thinking you got suckered into some POS like a Venge or something similar.

Gross, every time I type "Venge" I think of Mark Cavendish, makes me wanna puke. blahhhh!

 

[blutto]

The price is unavoidable, even at wholesale price for me, and heck, it's a Colnago! If carbon lugs are outdated then why does Colnago have no less than 3 out of the 4 of his race frame line up in lugged carbon, and why is it still raced on a International level? It's because, what most people don't understand about Colnago, is that he is the master of bike fit. All of his lugged carbon frames are available in both sloping and traditional geometry for a total of 22 sizes per model. That's huge, HUGE! This is something you cannot do with monocoque frames, that's why you normally see only 5 or 6 sizes available from most mfg's, and expensive to tool as well, 1 mold per size, cheaper if Asian built like everything else out there. Even Colnago's monocoque offerings are available in 8 sizes, which is more than most. Difference in performance, well currently I have 2 monocoque bikes, one road, one CX and can't tell the difference from my thousands of hours training and racing on C40's and 50's towards the end of my career. On paper monocoque is stiffer, but I can't tell, it's more of a marketing key word used to sell bikes, same as weight.

Sure, from an aesthetic perspective I can see why people think carbon may look outdated with lugs I guess. Personally, I absolutely love the look of carbon lugged bikes, especially in traditional geometry because it reminds me of my old MasterXLight but in carbon form. I'm just glad Ernesto stayed true to his roots when it came to carbon and bike fit, because so many others have strayed away from that.

Biker 77, you're just going to have to ride one to get my point. Nothing what anyone writes on this forum could really describe what a Colnago feels like to ride, like a dream.

...absolutely correct on all points...actually resisted for years because of the halo factor associated with Colnago...then finally gave in and got one...and now there is no going back...yup, like a dream...nothing rails a corner so well...

Cheers

blutto

PS ...ditto on Cavendooo$h...

 

[laziali]

Jesus H. Christ laziali, you're really flogging the dead horse with this exclusive wears crap. I'm just wondering why it took you so many posts to spit out the Colnago factor, which is something we actually do have in common. Finally! Looks like you're going to have to step up to Colnago's real(subjective) halo bike and spend more of that disposable income, and this whole time you had me thinking you got suckered into some POS like a Venge or something similar.

Gross, every time I type "Venge" I think of Mark Cavendish, makes me wanna puke. blahhhh!

Ha! And before YOU mentioned your Colnago's I thought you be one of the anti-colnago bunch! Btw, of all the Ernesto's I've raced the only one that was junk was a loan Carbitubo in the early 90s which has two downtubes and was as stiff as spaghetti al dente. Currently I have a c59 and an m10 plus the steel master. Also a first-gen Cx-1 relegated to the turbo trainer. Have not bought the cf7/cf8 - the so called halos - because the only difference is the paint and (imho) that paintjob looks a bit underwhelming. For me, my white 'hint-of-pearlescent" c59 is a halo bike and the tubes and lugs are WAY prettier than the M10 monocoque. You will know what I mean when I say you need to caress a c59 in the flesh to really appreciate how beautiful it is.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Ha! And before YOU mentioned your Colnago's I thought you be one of the anti-colnago bunch! Btw, of all the Ernesto's I've raced the only one that was junk was a loan Carbitubo in the early 90s which has two downtubes and was as stiff as spaghetti al dente. Currently I have a c59 and an m10 plus the steel master. Also a first-gen Cx-1 relegated to the turbo trainer. Have not bought the cf7/cf8 - the so called halos - because the only difference is the paint and (imho) that paintjob looks a bit underwhelming. For me, my white 'hint-of-pearlescent" c59 is a halo bike and the tubes and lugs are WAY prettier than the M10 monocoque. You will know what I mean when I say you need to caress a c59 in the flesh to really appreciate how beautiful it is.

MasterXLight, Bititan, Dream, C40, C50. My Bititan was also pretty loose, and had incessant creaking in the BB no matter how much grease or plumbers tape I used. Never understood why Tony Rominger loved that frame so much. This summer I demo'd a C59 and an EPQ each for a day in the mountains, I'm leaning toward the EPQ actually. Traditional geometry in paper white with the old school livery.

 

[Parera]

People who claim carbon fiber + lugs = outdated are te same people who cry that Camapagnolo is behind the times since they don't do native BB30. Unlike moutain bikes, as I previously mentioned, the technology in road cycling is largely just marketing nonsense.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Biker 77, you're just going to have to ride one to get my point. Nothing what anyone writes on this forum could really describe what a Colnago feels like to ride, like a dream.

I am happy to read this. I am looking at getting a C59 with the SR11 group and some Shamals.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

People who claim carbon fiber + lugs = outdated are te same people who cry that Camapagnolo is behind the times since they don't do native BB30. Unlike moutain bikes, as I previously mentioned, the technology in road cycling is largely just marketing nonsense.

Neither does shimano(BB30 crank), not do they make any adapters, none. BB30 is mostly marketing and frame maker cost savings...that is not passed onto the consumer. The 'lighter/stiffer' pablum from fsa and sram is marketing 101.

 

[Gaear Grimsrud]

More importantly though, these sort of articles become a tiresome proxy discussion point for the whole class-warfare debate that still infects general discourse.

The OP nailed this with his income distribution growth chart.

My point wasn't so much the way income is distributed as the way income disparity has widened over the years. Until OWS, there's been very little real discussion of class warfare and lots of real benefit to the very wealthy. Luckily, this is a case where a deadlocked Congress can actually achieve something, because Bush's ruinous tax cuts will expire at the end of 2012.

I agree that diminishing returns dictate that there is no bright line that separates tasteful from tasteless conspicuous consumption. What annoys me is the original article's wide-eyed description of healthy sales for halo bikes. My point is: of course they sell well -- the people that buy these things have had their income rise spectacularly despite bad economic times.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I don't have a huge problem with bikes like the Time RXRS or the Colnago C59, the Cyfacs, etc. costing a lot of money, since they are keeping their manufacturing in-house (Colnago only in part). I understand that hand-made bikes cost more, and they should. Time's manufacturing process is absolutely incredible.

I think mass-produced bikes like Specialized, Giant, Cannondale, etc. are second or third tier and are in way, shape, or form deserving of luxury-level pricing. You're not paying for quality. You're paying for the company to give away bikes and cash to ProTour teams.

 

[Maxiton]

It looks like a test for intelligence and discrimination of goods to me. It's like someone buying a $500K Yugo instead of a Ferrari. You can buy custom made, custom sized, and custom painted carbon from Serotta, Cyfac, Crumpton, Parlee, et cetera, yet some people are stupid enough to pay more money for a stock frame popped out of a mold in China. Heck, for about 4K you can get a custom stainless steel frame made by Dario Pegoretti, one of the last great master framebuilders. The pricing of this junk from Specialized et al. makes no sense. It's for people with no taste.

I don't have a huge problem with bikes like the Time RXRS or the Colnago C59, the Cyfacs, etc. costing a lot of money, since they are keeping their manufacturing in-house (Colnago only in part). I understand that hand-made bikes cost more, and they should. Time's manufacturing process is absolutely incredible.

I think mass-produced bikes like Specialized, Giant, Cannondale, etc. are second or third tier and are in way, shape, or form deserving of luxury-level pricing. You're not paying for quality. You're paying for the company to give away bikes and cash to ProTour teams.

Totally agree with all this, especially the bold bits. These so called halo bikes are clearly targeted at clueless people with large bankbooks. The bike manufacturers look them right in the eye and say, we're going to screw you for as much as we can, and they smile when they say it. I guess I'd smile, too.

Meanwhile, it's amazing what you can get in custom, in the material of your choice, from truly master builders - and, as has been pointed out, for far less than these super expensive bling bikes. Likewise, if you don't have the money - say maybe four to six grand, give or take - or the need or the desire for top end custom, many of the standard, stock bikes at regular retail are dreamy to ride if they're properly fitted (despite their being, in most cases and as Moose said, second or third tier versus true custom).

As for the bling bike market, the old adage about a fool and his money holds ever true . . . .

 

[oldborn]

I am totally kool with dudes buying 10 000 something bikes, if I had that kind of money whole garage would be too small. Of course we all agree that bike does not worth so much.
Let me tell you story from here about it.
I know that business dude Marlo mid 50s, loaded with money, smoke 2 packs of cigarettes, two kids, poor shape and with very stress full job.
After junkies attempt to steel his "old" Supersix ultegra bike from car rack (well they just dameged paint and destroyed rack) Marlo decide to buy 9000 euro Supersix Evo Team with Sram Red. Same one Basso ride.
When he get it after 2 or so months (only 150 or so of those are in Europe) cranks, BB, and Sram PM were ****ed up, I barely can rotate them with hands.
So shop wrenches after callling Kišerlovski mechanic himself from Astana fixed it.
I mean that is very nice ride indeed, light as hell and damn fast bike.

So Marlo dude bought that 9000 euro bike (some discount was there but anyway). What I should say him, and he barely can spin more than 25 km/h, nothing. He is just happy.

We are just all jealous but no one would admit.

 

[Maxiton]

I am totally kool with dudes buying 10 000 something bikes, if I had that kind of money whole garage would be too small. Of course we all agree that bike does not worth so much.
Let me tell you story from here about it.
I know that business dude Marlo mid 50s, loaded with money, smoke 2 packs of cigarettes, two kids, poor shape and with very stress full job.
After junkies attempt to steel his "old" Supersix ultegra bike from car rack (well they just dameged paint and destroyed rack) Marlo decide to buy 9000 euro Supersix Evo Team with Sram Red. Same one Basso ride.
When he get it after 2 or so months (only 150 or so of those are in Europe) cranks, BB, and Sram PM were ****ed up, I barely can rotate them with hands.
So shop wrenches after callling Kišerlovski mechanic himself from Astana fixed it.
I mean that is very nice ride indeed, light as hell and damn fast bike.

So Marlo dude bought that 9000 euro bike (some discount was there but anyway). What I should say him, and he barely can spin more than 25 km/h, nothing. He is just happy.

We are just all jealous but no one would admit.

As long as he doesn't flaunt his ignorance, thinking it looks like something else, and spit his contempt at people who know far more, I have no problem with him. If his 9000 euro bike puts a smile on his face, I am pleased. Smiles are too few in the world, so more power to him.

 

[oldborn]

As long as he doesn't flaunt his ignorance, thinking it looks like something else, and spit his contempt at people who know far more, I have no problem with him. If his 9000 euro bike puts a smile on his face, I am pleased. Smiles are too few in the world, so more power to him.

No, no, he is very nice guy trying to get more life that he have right now, just that.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

As long as he doesn't flaunt his ignorance, thinking it looks like something else, and spit his contempt at people who know far more, I have no problem with him. If his 9000 euro bike puts a smile on his face, I am pleased. Smiles are too few in the world, so more power to him.

Exactly. If he's happy with it, great. 9000 Euros for a Cannondale with Sram Red is criminal though. However, he's not really paying that much for a bike. He's buying an outlet for life. Which is worth far more than 9000 Euros. Better spend that on a bike than at the doctor's office.

 

[Maxiton]

Exactly. If he's happy with it, great. 9000 Euros for a Cannondale with Sram Red is criminal though. However, he's not really paying that much for a bike. He's buying an outlet for life. Which is worth far more than 9000 Euros. Better spend that on a bike than at the doctor's office.

+1. Cheers.

 

[Parera]

If you buy a $13k Feltrekspeciantwhatever over what's pictured above you are, for lack of a better term, an idiot.