Astana in disarray...?

[BikeCentric]

seems to me there's a threeway faceoff with ac in one corner astana(vino & the kazahs) in another and lance and the hog in a third. Hmmm remind me of another clint eastwood movie. but i can't figure out whoose playing which part

Contador = El Bueno

Lance and The Hog = El Malo

Vino and The Kazakhs = El Feo

Awesome movie.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-GIXqSsd37uQ/the_good_the_bad_the_ugly_spanish_intro_opening_theme/

 

[39*23t]

nope nothing yet on astana's or jb's website

 

[39*23t]

yep who knew that clint eastwood knew so much about cycling politics

 

[elapid]

yep who knew that clint eastwood knew so much about cycling politics

At least he would know how to solve some of professional cycling's problems!

 

[BroDeal]

"I've killed women and children. I've killed everything that walks or crawls at one time or another. And I'm here to kill you, One Ball, for what you done to LeMond."

Uh, wrong movie, but I am more of a Kelly's Heroes kind of a guy.

 

[39*23t]

love it do think ac calls vino blondie

 

[BroDeal]

Well, the hour has passed for the payment. Still can't find any news. CN's last word was that the final deadline to cough up the 6 million Euros was today at 5pm Central Europe Time, which is a couple hours ago.

Anyone hear anything?

This will get interesting. It would seem the UCI is treading on thin ice if they are trying to impose a higher bank guarantee than what was originally required if such an increase is not mentioned in any of the ProTour rules. If Bruyneel, Armstrong, and McQuaid have been conspiring to strip the kazakhs of their license then the ice gets thinner. If their license is rescinded then you have a situation where the kazakhs paid millions of euros this year and right before the big payoff for their money (the TdF) they get kicked to the curb. Any businessman would be very angry with that outcome, angry enough to sue.

 

[ElChingon]

Here's hoping Vino's come back puts a big monkey wrench in the whole Astana affair. Come on Vino! Attack the whole Team and take the money and create your team again!

Not that I approve of what he did but he's done his time and he should get the team he self created or at least got the sponsors for.

 

[nobody]

This will get interesting. It would seem the UCI is treading on thin ice if they are trying to impose a higher bank guarantee than what was originally required if such an increase is not mentioned in any of the ProTour rules. If Bruyneel, Armstrong, and McQuaid have been conspiring to strip the kazakhs of their license then the ice gets thinner. If their license is rescinded then you have a situation where the kazakhs paid millions of euros this year and right before the big payoff for their money (the TdF) they get kicked to the curb. Any businessman would be very angry with that outcome, angry enough to sue.

But there is worst than sueing... maybe some people would find that water of Leman' Lake is fresh at the bottom.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Well, it looks like no payment from the Kazaks, and at this point, they don't intend on paying. CN link here.

I'm sure there is negotiating going on right now as to who is going to fund what, and how much money they can come up with. Also who gets control of the PT license, and control of the team. Also what state the contracts of the riders now exist.

Here's an interesting part from that article:

"If the licence was revoked, manager Johan Bruyneel would throw in the towel," said Astana mediator Rinus Wagtmans. He speculated that, "It could be that Armstrong acts as a sponsor, which would replace Astana... Although I don't believe it."

This is still a possibility to me. I imagine at some point in the negotiating, Lance may be trying to put together a MellowJohnny's team with other sub sponsors (HP, Trek, Nike, SRAM, Livestrong, etc), and controlling as many of the riders as he can through maintaining their contracts as binding. But the more names they try to keep (or less willing to let go), the more expensive it could get. More from the article:

Continuing the hypothetical scenario, Wagtmans explained, "Contador and the others would have an interim manager that can ride without Armstrong. This may be a possible scenario, even though the money is paid. That is my advice."

I've read this a dozen times, and can interpret it a few ways. The first sentence reads to mean that someone like Kuiper would be the DS of a Contador led team, sans Lance. But keeping it in context with the previous and following sentences, it almost sounds as though Lance would be the owner, and not be riding on such a team. This I just can't see.

Now really reading between the lines, it seems as though it's impossible for JB to get ownership of the license, at least not in two weeks time, even if he comes up with the money out of his own pocket (or Lances). And if the money isn't there, and there is no Astana, and the Kazaks still hold the license, then the team is truly on the verge of disbanding and all contracts void.

There seems to be every logical thinking that yes, Astana will be back next year with a much smaller team, and Vino and Kashi will be on that team. Though they may end up as a UCI Continental (Asia) squad.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that Caisse has a contract already printed up with the needed signatures on their end, and the second the Astana contracts are considered void, Contador's cell will ring and his attorney's FAX will spit out the contract for him to sign.

 

[Escarabajo]

I'd bet dollars to donuts that Caisse has a contract already printed up with the needed signatures on their end, and the second the Astana contracts are considered void, Contador's cell will ring and his attorney's FAX will spit out the contract for him to sign.

Now we see why Contador was so nice with Valverde at Dauphine.

 

[BikeCentric]

"If the licence was revoked, manager Johan Bruyneel would throw in the towel," said Astana mediator Rinus Wagtmans. Continuing the hypothetical scenario, Wagtmans explained, "Contador and the others would have an interim manager that can ride without Armstrong. This may be a possible scenario, even though the money is paid. That is my advice."

LOL, the Kazakhs are making it crystal clear that they want Bruyneel and Armstrong gone!

 

[BroDeal]

Am I just confused or is this the current situation:

1) Astana has paid the usual 2M euro guarantee.
2) The UCI has demanded that Astana put up 6M, which would cover the rider's salaries for the rest of the year.
3) There is no rule that allows the UCI to make such a demand. No other team has been forced to make such a large guarantee.
4) Astana's riders are currently paid up, and the Kazakh's say they have the money for the rest of the season.

If so then this looks like a giant mess. The 6M demand makes it seem like the UCI (and Bruyneel) are intent on stripping the kazakh's license, and if one demand is fulfilled then they will simply move the goal posts forward until they have a reason to take the license.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

This is really starting to look like it's going to come down to lawsuits, and a tug of war over the PT license.

Stuck in between may be the riders, who apparently while recently paid (???) won't be getting any more money from the Kazaks, who refuse to pony up the $6 mil. I'm just curious at what point the riders contracts are voided, and when the ASO will step in and demand to know just what team is coming to the Tour, who will be supporting them and how, and who they will be representing.

What a mess.

 

[Stani Kléber]

Am I just confused or is this the current situation:

1) Astana has paid the usual 2M euro guarantee.
2) The UCI has demanded that Astana put up 6M, which would cover the rider's salaries for the rest of the year.
3) There is no rule that allows the UCI to make such a demand. No other team has been forced to make such a large guarantee.
4) Astana's riders are currently paid up, and the Kazakh's say they have the money for the rest of the season.

If so then this looks like a giant mess. The 6M demand makes it seem like the UCI (and Bruyneel) are intent on stripping the kazakh's license, and if one demand is fulfilled then they will simply move the goal posts forward until they have a reason to take the license.

This is exactly my interpretation of events, it feels as if rules are being made up. I'm all in favour of measures to ensure riders are paid for the season in full but the way this looks, it appears tailor-made as a ploy to strip the licence from the team and hand for free to Bruyneel and Armstrong.

Normally they'd have to pay millions to Astana for a licence takeover. The value of getting the licence before the Tour de France is tremendous for being able to showcase the new sponsors in July with Armstrong and Contador on the same team is very attractive, a "Livestrong" team formed on 1 August is not going to offer the same value. I'm very concerned all the rules are being ditched to accomodate Armstrong and any potential sponsors he's got in his pocket.

 

[Anonymous]

i still cant help thinking back to lances video blog from aspen after the giro where he mentions the team bus and says it will have a different name on the side by the tour de france..

 

[whiteboytrash]

i still cant help thinking back to lances video blog from aspen after the giro where he mentions the team bus and says it will have a different name on the side by the tour de france..

Would it surprise you that Sir Dopealot might not know what he's doing ? Why do you read into everything that LA-Hog Pty Ltd. do as some form of carefully thought out plan for success ?

Would it be so amazing that these two actually have no idea and that there are no grand plans for the team bus having a new name and these two crooks have met their matches in even bigger crooks from Kazahagaatsgahjstran ?

Why doesn't LA-Hog just put Livestrong money into the team ? Its about awareness, no ?

 

[Mellow Velo]

As Bro says, it's a complete mess. Once again one of the UCI's making, with rules set in shifting sands.

When Liberty Seguros pulled their sponsorship and the team folded, at exactly this time of the year in 2006, Astana were not issued a licence in time to ride the Tour, but had to wait until the Vuelta.

There is an ocean of paperwork to be submitted, before any licence can be issued.

If Armstrong is going to ambush this one, McQuaid is going to have to bend over backwards.

If the Kazakh's have any sense, their last act should be to fire Bruyneel and kick out the non-contracted party crasher, using this misuse of funds accusation.

Then, they have to start from scratch, with all those rider contracts.

Plus, the ASO invited Astana, not Mellow Johnny's Vets.

 

[Zoncolan]

There seems to be every logical thinking that yes, Astana will be back next year with a much smaller team, and Vino and Kashi will be on that team. Though they may end up as a UCI Continental (Asia) squad.

Was he ever even banned or just blackballed?

 

[Zoncolan]

Am I just confused or is this the current situation:

1) Astana has paid the usual 2M euro guarantee.
2) The UCI has demanded that Astana put up 6M, which would cover the rider's salaries for the rest of the year.
3) There is no rule that allows the UCI to make such a demand. No other team has been forced to make such a large guarantee.
4) Astana's riders are currently paid up, and the Kazakh's say they have the money for the rest of the season.

If so then this looks like a giant mess. The 6M demand makes it seem like the UCI (and Bruyneel) are intent on stripping the kazakh's license, and if one demand is fulfilled then they will simply move the goal posts forward until they have a reason to take the license.

The Russian mob's methods are nothing compared to those of McQuaid, Hog, Livestrong & Co.

 

[whiteboytrash]

The Russian mob's methods are nothing compared to those of McQuaid, Hog, Livestrong & Co.

Cool isn't it ? I'm glad they're playing hardball with Pat the doormat. Astana have the spot at the Tour and aint nothing going to change that. Do you think the Kid (Contador) is in bed with the Kazah's ?

 

[39*23t]

the kazacks have made it clear to bruyneel and lance that they are not wanted but the problem for them is that nobody else will have them. (garmin is about being clean, columbia is brotherly love) so they have no choice but to dig their heels. This time last year there was no tour and no lance but everyone seemed happy there. i think they need to sit the hog down and tell him get rid of the freebie or go with him it his choice

 

[39*23t]

yep ithink ac ****ed off he's no longer the hog's favourite

 

[Zoncolan]

Cool isn't it ? I'm glad they're playing hardball with Pat the doormat. Astana have the spot at the Tour and aint nothing going to change that. Do you think the Kid (Contador) is in bed with the Kazah's ?

I think we saw him making some room for him to backpedal if needed to Caisse (P-N) and Dauohine, but does he have the cojones or the need to go behind Hog's and LA's back and work them over with the Kazakhs? I very much doubt that.
However, I do hope the Kazakh fight the UCI on this and if Pat tries to take away their license, they take him to court, beat him and bring down his entire corrupt organization (not that I have reason to believe the Kazakhs do their business any differently).

 

[39*23t]

do you think the hog has cut back on ac's jungle juice to give lance a better chance or even better doped his dope