Astana transfusion equipment "Criminal"

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Alpe d'Huez said:
And why didn't anyone sign Kashechkin? Okay, he doped, but he served his suspension. He also showed talent when he was young, so it's not like it was only doping that made him at least decent. You'd think Astana at the least give him another shot.

Kashechkin and Vinokourov are no longer best friends, and are said not to be talking to one another any more. That may have something to do with it.

Susan

Edit: PLus Vino said that McQuaid said that Astana might have UCI problems if they signed Kash. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vinokourov-says-kashechkin-a-risk-for-astana
 
Jun 18, 2009
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So in thinking about this more...

I wonder if bertie was part of the same program? The guy seemed to operate his own team from within Astana. If there's 7 different DNA samples, might that not point to the rest of the team.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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PC has a bit more:
Le Monde reports that Oclaesp investigators confirmed the delays granted to Astana, and said that they were "sufficient to allow for the dilution of blood."

The investigation originally targetted several teams, but as of now, focuses only on Astana. According to the information uncovered by Le Monde, the prosecutors found the evidence insufficient to open proceedings against any other teams
.

What delays? I thought that Pat had proclaimed there were no irregularities?
Anyhow, since we've already seen which side of the fence, the UCI is lined up with over these protocol issues, I can't see them playing ball at this stage.


I'll bet old Koden is dead chuffed. Just as he buys himself out of one doping scandal, he's plunged straight back into another!
 
Jul 19, 2009
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Mellow Velo said:
What delays? I thought that Pat had proclaimed there were no irregularities?
Anyhow, since we've already seen which side of the fence, the UCI is lined up with over these protocol issues, I can't see them playing ball at this stage.

Doping is just a regular thing for McQuaid
 
Sep 25, 2009
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the more i think about it the more it looks like a payback job of some diabolical vindictive mind deeply unhappy with how bru and armstrong hijacked the team.

mister proskurin fits the bill almost perfectly. hes known to openly blamed bru for all sort of sins and he reportedly was behind the financial ‘problems’ when kcf was losing its power struggle with bru for vinos return and more kazakh riders on the tour squad.

how difficult is it to promises a half a mil to a contadors sympathizer on the team's medical staff?

"dump the stuff so it could be easily found"

if i was a spanish doctor on astana i’d be sleeping poorly.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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python said:
the more i think about it the more it looks like a payback job of some diabolical vindictive mind deeply unhappy with how bru and armstrong hijacked the team.

mister proskurin fits the bill almost perfectly. hes known to openly blamed bru for all sort of sins and he reportedly was behind the financial ‘problems’ when kcf was losing its power struggle with bru for vinos return and more kazakh riders on the tour squad.

how difficult is it to promises a half a mil to a contadors sympathizer on the team's medical staff?

"dump the stuff so it could be easily found"

if i was a spanish doctor on astana i’d be sleeping poorly.

It appears that you are assuming that there was organised doping at Astana, otherwise there wouldn't be any "stuff" to dump.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Susan Westemeyer said:
...Vino said that McQuaid said that Astana might have UCI problems if they signed Kash.
I'm recalling that now. I also recall my calling bullsiht on it as well. Like there would be more problems signing one or the other for any other reason than...

Mellow Velo said:
What delays? I thought that Pat had proclaimed there were no irregularities? Anyhow, since we've already seen which side of the fence the UCI is lined up with over these protocol issues, I can't see them playing ball at this stage.I'll bet old Koden is dead chuffed. Just as he buys himself out of one doping scandal, he's plunged straight back into another!
Great post. Made me laugh and think, and laugh again!

python said:
the more i think about it the more it looks like a payback job of some diabolical vindictive mind deeply unhappy with how bru and armstrong hijacked the team.
I'm glad someone other than me said that, as I was pondering the same thing. As impossible and conspiracy theory as it sounds on the surface, anyone who recalls all the back and forth starting early in the year and culminating with the blank jerseys in the Giro and direct animosity between them leading into the Tour, it has to creep into one's mind that someone could be quite, quite bitter about the whole thing. Bitter enough to sabotage matters? Well, if you're convinced someone is screwing you, and you're in this remote Central Asian country, and you know there's no way you're going to have the same team next year...

However, if AC is one of the 7, it makes no sense, as they've been courting him for some time for next year. Now, if AC turns out to be the one not connected to the dirty bags...
 
Aug 6, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
I'm glad someone other than me said that, as I was pondering the same thing. As impossible and conspiracy theory as it sounds on the surface, anyone who recalls all the back and forth starting early in the year and culminating with the blank jerseys in the Giro and direct animosity between them leading into the Tour, it has to creep into one's mind that someone could be quite, quite bitter about the whole thing. Bitter enough to sabotage matters? Well, if you're convinced someone is screwing you, and you're in this remote Central Asian country, and you know there's no way you're going to have the same team next year...

However, if AC is one of the 7, it makes no sense, as they've been courting him for some time for next year. Now, if AC turns out to be the one not connected to the dirty bags...
I don't think a conspiracy is likely. It certainly would be dumb. No matter how many of the riders and management have left the team, no one comes out of a scandal like this smelling like roses.

ETA: Also IIRC Astana tried to keep Zubeldia. Weird thing to do if they'd set him up for a doping scandal.
 
I must say 1st off this is one of the best threads Ive read on here in a long time, many thanks guys.

Rex Hunter:

Could you tell me if you get a special price on placing your name on the bottom of all your shoes so people can see who you are cause you are so far up DopeStrongs *** it is actually shamefull and pathetic.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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'It appears that you are assuming that there was organised doping at Astana, otherwise there wouldn't be any "stuff" to dump.'

of course. but if the goal was to screw bru and make some waves an uncomplicated plot with even a camel’s dna would do it. damage is done and the dna origin would be irrelevant.

'I'm glad someone other than me said that, as I was pondering the same thing. As impossible and conspiracy theory as it sounds on the surface'


it’s conspiratorial but hardly impossible. combine it with so far spotless record bru’s sop accrued. he aint making stupid errors like that. add too a plot allows to control what you can control - no dna of those u don’t want dirtied. wagtmans publicly (on their payroll once) called kazakhs method ruthless when the financial ‘problems’ started. those not operating within western thinking parameters aren't comprehensible to westerners. unlike you and me proskurin went to a different school of thought :eek:
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Yes, he did. As much as I doubt there's a conspiracy, anyone remember how the term "Scortched Earth" came about? And the acronym M.A.D stood for, and came from?

Eagerly awaiting some SSDD tweets from you know who, and denials from the UCI soon!

Curious to see how this plays out in the US mainstream press as it progresses.
 
Jul 19, 2009
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That could be someone of managment unhappy with Armstrong's method on Contador who left the bag after having retired Alberto's material and someone else's .:D
 
Jun 27, 2009
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Rex Hunter said:
I've actually done well.

1. Pointing out the possible reference to Contador and his suspicious performance, so it can't just be an Armstrong hate-fest, putting people on the defensive and wary to finger anyone.

2. Highlighting that blood transfusion kits is just a sexed up way of saying IV kits for dehydration - which are allowed under certain circumstances and was in the last story.

3. Pointing out injections are used for all manner of things, so it might not matter whose DNA is on it.

4. And educating people on the fact there are many different types of DNA. Every time you touch something there is a very weak DNA code left behind - they are usually not able to make a credible match with that type of genetic code.

No one has been able to answer or contradict any of these posts - your only thing was to do the joke about the police officer thing again, and others have just spammed up pictures - so I'm pretty happy with my performance. I got my message across.

The haters can't answer or contradict anything because they generally FAIL, at... EVERYTHING.

All they can keep doing is spend every waking hour on the intarwebs hating on Lance because "they know he's guilty" of...

dating young women
lying
bullying
doping
being rich
loving life
having a big house
standing on a real podium
etc.

Of course, all the negative stuff about doping has been debunked in the courts... but gosh darn, the HATERS have the secret proof! (I wonder if these douche bags have met up with each other yet? Now that would be something to see.) And other stuff has no bearing on his job of standing on the podium.

The haters here are in the same camp as all the douche bags who started bashing Tom Cruise because he jumped on a couch and supported Scientology; neither of which has any bearing on his ability to act. But... I guess when you need a hero in your life....

Of course, ThoughtForFood cries that he might just stop watching cycling because of doping! LOL.

Dude, look at his post count. Can you say, OBSESSED? Can you say, NO LIFE? Let's stand back and look at all the "successful, happy" people. Do these people have thousands of posts on message boards? I think we know the answer to that. Yet, he refuses to acknowledge that he basically has lost every argument before he even opens his mouth because of this.

Oh, and I love how the haters cry about "doping". Doping? DEFINE IT. Bet they can't. If somebody held a gun to their head and told them to define doping in such a manner that it couldn't be applied incorrectly, they would fail.

Risk? What risk? I haven't seen a single person here quantify the risk from blood doping, or any other "doping".

And let's not forget that "doping" doesn't prevent crashes, flats, bonks, mechanical failures, tactical errors.

Why are the haters so mad about "dope"? Do they have a dimensional teleporter that let them see the race "clean" and saw another rider stand on the podium? Oh... that's right... more "assumptions" flowing from their mouth. SUCH AND SUCH WOULD NEVER WIN WITHOUT "DOPE". Huh? Good luck proving a statement like that.

What's their idea of "Sports"? Racing as "you were born", with natural substances only? Then why is eye surgery legal? Why are supplements legal? I bet all these amatuer nobody HATERS choke down loads of synthetic substances each day (take vitamins? What, did you think those weren't created in a lab?)

And that whole "racing as you were born" is such a pathetic illogical stance to take. So, to the haters, Sports are merely about celebrating the person who was born with the best genetics. Why is that something to celebrate? If that were the final word, things would be creepy right quick. Breeding programs and all that.

Of course, that'll be a non-issue as genetic alteration and therapy become unlocked. Uh oh, does that mean all the people who received genetic "help" before and after they were born can't participate in "Sports"? Are there going to be two divisions? Oh yes, I'm sure people will love to watch the slow, less capable beings duke it out. Because they are "pure".

Is the cost why they cry foul? New racers can't afford doping programs? Wow, apparently they missed that class in college about BARRIERS TO ENTRY. Oh wait, college? Do they even have a college for haters? It would have to be a special one with padded walls for when they throw a temper tantrum.

Equipment isn't standard. What's to keep a racer with a million bucks from buying that shiny new bike with the new wonder material that significantly improves power transfer? Why is that fair?

Oh, what if somebody was born with a genetic condition where they have increased red blood cells circulating in their body? It's fair for them to race like that, but not fair for other people to "dope" up to that level?

The HATERS just keep using slick terms like the "church of Armstrong" to sound "kewl". Church? What church? You've got the cancer folks who don't follow or know squat about the specifics of his cycling career. You've got the cycling fans who just like the fact that he knows how to get on the podium. And... well, that's it.

It's actually the HATERS who appear to be the people looking for a hero, an idol (no father figure at home? That explains a lot). Otherwise, why would they keep bashing on Lance's personal life? I guarantee Lance is about, oh, 1000 times happier than any hater douche bag on this forum. That must make them REALLY mad, ha ha. Especially ThoughtForFood. TFT probably cries every night that Lance has a house in Aspen.

Oh, I'm sure the haters still don't get it. Like I said, that testosterone flowing through their weak veins keeps them from admitting defeat (research it).
 
Aug 16, 2009
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fpcyclingn said:
The haters can't answer or contradict anything because they generally FAIL, at... EVERYTHING.

I think you and I will get alog nice. :) The haters think that I'm an escaped crazy person too.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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fpcyclingn that was one of the most disturbing posts Ive read in long time. Laws against doping are there to make the sport fair and to stop athletes killing themselves from drug abuse. No one should have to risk damage their long term health just to compete.
 
Jul 11, 2009
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fpcyclingn said:
The haters can't answer or contradict anything because they generally FAIL, at... EVERYTHING.

I wish I had something humorous your reply to that cavalcade of hate and BS, but all I can think is that you must be one of the saddest humans I have ever come across.
 
Sep 23, 2009
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fpcyclingn said:
The haters can't answer or contradict anything because they generally FAIL, at... EVERYTHING.

All they can keep doing is spend every waking hour on the intarwebs hating on Lance because "they know he's guilty" of...

Plague tell, how do trap clap so well?
 
Mar 18, 2009
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53 x 11 said:
I wish I had something humorous your reply to that cavalcade of hate and BS, but all I can think is that you must be one of the saddest humans I have ever come across.

I think it is hilarious that someone is so angry about what other people are discussing that he flies off into an unbalanced rage.