Astana transfusion equipment "Criminal"

[Anonymous]

Take Leecheimer out of the running and since Contador was fearful of sabotage by the team, maybe Contador will end up being the odd man out. I would not count on it, but that would make my year.

It would be funny, but I hope he gets busted too.

 

[BroDeal]

I wish, Blackcat.

To be honest I don't think a PR firm would consider an internet forum important. Their job is to shape the view of the mainstream media opinion. People who are interested enough to be on a forum are usually dogmatic and unwilling to change their minds anyway - they have already made their minds up. It's the people that haven't made their minds up that are important.

 

[Anonymous]

For those of you just joining this thread, let me summarize the discussion so far.

The guy in the back is looking to see if anyone is bridging up...

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Take Leecheimer out of the running and since Contador was fearful of sabotage by the team, maybe Contador will end up being the odd man out. I would not count on it, but that would make my year.

How sweet would that be.
The UCI will never share the blood profiles. Lance made sure of that.

 

[Rex Hunter]

If so they should ask for their money back because he has only succeeded in making their man look foolish.

I've actually done well.

1. Pointing out the possible reference to Contador and his suspicious performance, so it can't just be an Armstrong hate-fest, putting people on the defensive and wary to finger anyone.

2. Highlighting that blood transfusion kits is just a sexed up way of saying IV kits for dehydration - which are allowed under certain circumstances and was in the last story.

3. Pointing out injections are used for all manner of things, so it might not matter whose DNA is on it.

4. And educating people on the fact there are many different types of DNA. Every time you touch something there is a very weak DNA code left behind - they are usually not able to make a credible match with that type of genetic code.

No one has been able to answer or contradict any of these posts - your only thing was to do the joke about the police officer thing again, and others have just spammed up pictures - so I'm pretty happy with my performance. I got my message across.

 

[Rex Hunter]

I like the way these stories produce a burst of energy in the clinic. It does liven things up, doesn't it. Makes what would be a boring day waiting for Christmas a bit more interesting.

This place would be dead today without this story.

 

[BroDeal]

I've actually done well...

No one has been able to answer or contradict any of these posts - your only thing was to do the joke about the police officer thing again, and others have just spammed up pictures - so I'm pretty happy with my performance. I got my message across.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I've actually done well.

1. Pointing out the possible reference to Contador and his suspicious performance, so it can't just be an Armstrong hate-fest, putting people on the defensive and wary to finger anyone.

2. Highlighting that blood transfusion kits is just a sexed up way of saying IV kits for dehydration - which are allowed under certain circumstances and was in the last story.

3. Pointing out injections are used for all manner of things, so it might not matter whose DNA is on it.

4. And educating people on the fact there are many different types of DNA. Every time you touch something there is a very weak DNA code left behind - they are usually not able to make a credible match with that type of genetic code.

No one has been able to answer or contradict any of these posts - your only thing was to do the joke about the police officer thing again, and others have just spammed up pictures - so I'm pretty happy with my performance. I got my message across.

1. The infusion equipment is illegal for all but medical emergencies.
2. Anti-hypertensive drugs were also found.
3. Polypeptides were found. Now, this suggests some sort of protein, but other than that, it's mysterious at this point.
4. Since the discussion is about testing an individual person, we can assume that we're talking about chromosomal DNA and not the other types.

 

[afpm90]

Wow - another ex-bruyneel rider gets busted doping.

This will go a LONG way explaining why Lance and Johan
were distancing themselves from Alberto.

Silver Lining is that Greg can point to the Verbier Snafu and say -
"Told you so!"

You should read better. The French Office for the Environment and Public Health found drip bags allegedly belonging to Astana. This is against the law in France and against the rules of Wada. We don't know to whom the bags belong inside Astana. I have no idea how you conclude that all the drip bags belonged to Contador and Bruyneel and Armstrong are clean as murmeys.

 

[Deagol]

In all honesty, I hope this has legs and that Contador and Lance are implicated. To see Contador at the top of the climb in the TT breathing normally (when even the Uniballer was red faced and dying) was hard to take even if he was beating Lance at his own game. That type of performance is just hard to watch anymore.

Honestly, when I first started reading this forum, (right when it started, before I actually joined) I would have never imagined I would have agreed with you on anything. But, things have changed, the camels have come home to roost .

 

[blackcat]

I've actually done well.

1. Pointing out the possible reference to Contador and his suspicious performance, so it can't just be an Armstrong hate-fest, putting people on the defensive and wary to finger anyone.

2. Highlighting that blood transfusion kits is just a sexed up way of saying IV kits for dehydration - which are allowed under certain circumstances and was in the last story.

3. Pointing out injections are used for all manner of things, so it might not matter whose DNA is on it.

4. And educating people on the fact there are many different types of DNA. Every time you touch something there is a very weak DNA code left behind - they are usually not able to make a credible match with that type of genetic code.

No one has been able to answer or contradict any of these posts - your only thing was to do the joke about the police officer thing again, and others have just spammed up pictures - so I'm pretty happy with my performance. I got my message across.

man, you have worked in the State Dep't right? Ari Fleischer? Or the Iraqi Information Minister? No? How about the Senghalese Foreign Minister in Sri Lanka? No? The Israeli Gov't spokesperson? No? Alistair Campbell? You are British right?

you have skills in propaganda that Goebbels and Bernays would be proud of

 

[Race Radio]

I've actually done well.

1. Pointing out the possible reference to Contador and his suspicious performance, so it can't just be an Armstrong hate-fest, putting people on the defensive and wary to finger anyone.

2. Highlighting that blood transfusion kits is just a sexed up way of saying IV kits for dehydration - which are allowed under certain circumstances and was in the last story.

3. Pointing out injections are used for all manner of things, so it might not matter whose DNA is on it.

4. And educating people on the fact there are many different types of DNA. Every time you touch something there is a very weak DNA code left behind - they are usually not able to make a credible match with that type of genetic code.

No one has been able to answer or contradict any of these posts - your only

thing was to do the joke about the police officer thing again, and others have just spammed up pictures - so I'm pretty happy with my performance. I got my message across.

You have done nothing but waste time and deflect

1. You did not point out, you invented something that was not in the article
2. Drips are banned, no matter how you try to spin it they are banned and illegal. What part of banned do you not understand?
3 Drip bags. They require a specific size of needle. Guess what, those needles are banned as well.
4. More conspiracy theories. Got a link? If the DNA is that of riders how did it get on IV needles?

Your trolling is obvious. You are just going to get banned again.

 

[Mellow Velo]

So, we have 7 out of 8, with Levi being out of the race?
Let me see.....
21 CONTADOR Alberto
22 ARMSTRONG Lance
23 KLÖDEN Andréas
24 LEIPHEIMER Levi
25 MURAVYEV Dmitriy
26 PAULINHO Sergio
27 POPOVYCH Yaroslav
28 RAST Gregory
29 ZUBELDIA Haimar

________ = Current Astana Riders

________ = Current Shack Riders

Oh dear!

 

[ScienceIsCool]

I've actually done well.

1. Pointing out the possible reference to Contador and his suspicious performance, so it can't just be an Armstrong hate-fest, putting people on the defensive and wary to finger anyone.

2. Highlighting that blood transfusion kits is just a sexed up way of saying IV kits for dehydration - which are allowed under certain circumstances and was in the last story.

3. Pointing out injections are used for all manner of things, so it might not matter whose DNA is on it.

4. And educating people on the fact there are many different types of DNA. Every time you touch something there is a very weak DNA code left behind - they are usually not able to make a credible match with that type of genetic code.

No one has been able to answer or contradict any of these posts - your only thing was to do the joke about the police officer thing again, and others have just spammed up pictures - so I'm pretty happy with my performance. I got my message across.

You have made several factual mistakes. You might want to revise them if you wish your arguments to be valid.

Point 1 - The original French (yes, I speak enough to get the context) talks about Contador's team - not a "possible reference to Contador".

Point 2 - IV equipment is similar, but a saline kit is indeed different from a transfusion kit. In any case, the seized equipment is both WADA banned, and illegal in France.

Point 3 - Injections are *not* used for all manner of things. In fact they are highly proscribed. Any team doctor that uses them had better be prepared to defend their use.

Point 4 - There is only one type of DNA. Just one. If the quality and quantity of a sample has been sufficient to form a genotype, (i.e., identify a person) then that's all there is to it. The article clearly states they have identified seven different people.

It would help any future arguments if you avoid factual mistakes as they invalidate your claims outright.

John Swanson

 

[BroDeal]

Your trolling is obvious. You are just going to get banned again.

We can only hope so.

 

[Hugh Januss]

i've actually done well.

No one has been able to answer or contradict any of these posts - your only thing was to do the joke about the police officer thing again, and others have just spammed up pictures - so i'm pretty happy with my performance. i got my message across.

i am a ***

 

[blackcat]

I reckon this is how Lance and Astana were doping

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/tour-like-a-mobile-pharmacy-10544
Tour like a mobile pharmacy
French newspaper Le Journal du Dimanche (JDD) has eased open the door of the Tour de France medicine cabinet to lay bare what it claims is an unnerving culture of medical dependency in the pro peloton. A special report today reveals that, on average, 11 foreign teams present at the Tour requested permission to travel to the race equipped with more than 80 different products. As was the case in 2003, four teams failed to submit a request to import medicines to the French Agency of Sanitary Safety of Health Products (AFSSAP) before arriving on French soil. These teams are theoretically breaking the law by their mere presence at the Grande Boucle. Only in the unlikely event of a drop-in from French customs officers, though, do they risk sanctions, since the AFSSAP has no powers of coercion or punishment. Reassuringly, none of the products declared to the AFSSAP is categorically banned at the Tour. Less comforting is the news that, in addition to familiar household medicines like paracetamol, antihistamine and vitamins, the AFSSAP received and approved requests for 'heavy' products whose conventional application is difficult to reconcile with the needs of an endurance athlete. Fructose diphosphate, a treatment for respiratory disorders, various diuretics, coronary dilators and products for the detoxification of the liver belong firmly in the latter category. One team's Tour de France survival kit reportedly contains 155 products. For the sake of comparison, the JDD recalls that US Postal had 126 (authorised) products on board in the 2000 Tour. Another 2004 Tour entrant, perhaps the claimant of the 155 benchmark, has a supply of pentoxifylline tablets. These are more commonly prescribed for amnesia in the elderly. "I look after sportsmen of under 30 years of age who don't need reassurances about the state of their memory, not even to remember what the stage route is like," commented a sceptical fdjeux.com doctor, Grard Guillaume. "The cyclist's pathology is hypochondria: falls, skin irritations, digestive, pulmonary or muscular complaints. That necessitates around 30 products, no more. You can add to that a couple of medicines in case of an emergency, like a heart attack, but no more. Nothing justifies such an arsenal of products." "The size of the 'cargoes' shows that the culture of medicine is a recurring reality in cycling," Jean-Pierre de Mondenard, a sports doctor and the author of a dictionary of doping, told the JDD. "This culture is a tributary of a doping system." Mondenard went on to controversially suggest that "you would see a similar array of products in the French football team."

you know what Rex, I reckon you are right

 

[Race Radio]

You have made several factual mistakes. You might want to revise them if you wish your arguments to be valid.

Point 1 - The original French (yes, I speak enough to get the context) talks about Contador's team - not a "possible reference to Contador".

Point 2 - IV equipment is similar, but a saline kit is indeed different from a transfusion kit. In any case, the seized equipment is both WADA banned, and illegal in France.

Point 3 - Injections are *not* used for all manner of things. In fact they are highly proscribed. Any team doctor that uses them had better be prepared to defend their use.

Point 4 - There is only one type of DNA. Just one. If the quality and quantity of a sample has been sufficient to form a genotype, (i.e., identify a person) then that's all there is to it. The article clearly states they have identified seven different people.

It would help any future arguments if you avoid factual mistakes as they invalidate your claims outright.

John Swanson

John explains it much better then I. Looks like the resident troll was

Again

 

[Cobblestones]

I've actually done well.

1. drivel

2. drivel

3. drivel

4. drivel

Do we know this kuhnt? I've forgotten most of the sockpuppets. Only a few stand out. There was the BUY guy, then the unbalanced dude from central Ohio who threatened to beat everybody up in person, then the British BPC troll who posted mostly around 3-4 a.m. GMT. No positives?

 

[Publicus]

I think it is funny that the photo CN attached to the article is of AC and a couple of Kazakhs, and not the riders (save AC) who are possibly implicated. It's the little things that allow folks to continue disassociating doping from USPS/Discovery/Astana (08-09).

 

[Mellow Velo]

Memories, are made of this........

Here's an old photo that does it's fair share of implicating.

 

[red_flanders]

They said it MIGHT mean that.

Let me assure you, it's a term used constantly in cycling. It DOES mean that.

You're the ones who wanted to make it a thread only about Armstrong. Given Contador produced the most suspicious performance in Tour history this year, he is surely the main suspect.

Show me where I attempted to make this thread about Armstrong.

Your ridiculous attempt to deflect blame from Lance is transparent. Armstrong's performance was every bit as suspicious as Contador's, as have all his post cancer Tour performances. ALL of Astana is implicated at this point, none more or less than others. Armstrong and Contador are implicated. Get it?

Now please continue informing us how this is all rehashed nonsense, or some other page from your PR playbook.

 

[Rex Hunter]

Well it seems my last post hit the spot and stopped everyone from trolling for a minute, which I suppose is a good thing. Problem is, if I start frantically responding to everyone then I will be accused of highjack the thread. Here's one though...

Point 1 - The original French (yes, I speak enough to get the context) talks about Contador's team - not a "possible reference to Contador".

Doesn't sound like you're particularly sure. We want a hard translation, not more people saying they get the jist of the context.

Point 2 - IV equipment is similar, but a saline kit is indeed different from a transfusion kit. In any case, the seized equipment is both WADA banned, and illegal in France.

Why is it different? Nobody has said this before. And others admit that IV equipment is allowed for "medical emergencies" i.e dehydration, so it doesn't seem like you have your facts right on that.

Point 3 - Injections are *not* used for all manner of things. In fact they are highly proscribed. Any team doctor that uses them had better be prepared to defend their use.

No they can be used for vitamins. Some teams now have a no needle rule, but many still use them - a jab on the bum. Greg LeMond admits to using iron injections. Again you have your facts wrong.

Point 4 - There is only one type of DNA. Just one. If the quality and quantity of a sample has been sufficient to form a genotype, (i.e., identify a person) then that's all there is to it. The article clearly states they have identified seven different people.

But you may know about the new and more unstable method of detecting DNA that was used in the McCanns case, for instance, and much criticsed, and used in this case in Italy, that is much less trustworthy and vague. It can be found on any surface. We will have to see what type of DNA they claim to have. If it was hard traditional DNA from blood, hair or saliva, that can be used in court, it seems to me they would have come forward by now. What on earth is the hold up?

Glad to help you out on this.

 

[Deagol]

Do we know this kuhnt? I've forgotten most of the sockpuppets. Only a few stand out. There was the BUY guy, then the unbalanced dude from central Ohio who threatened to beat everybody up in person, then the British BPC troll who posted mostly around 3-4 a.m. GMT. No positives?

The “style” is that of the British one (Arbiter, BPC, & others). I believe other current aliases are Speedway & Phantom Menace. I find that the style stands out and it’s easier to just ignore.

 

[Rex Hunter]

Here's an old photo that does it's fair share of implicating.

Nobody is singling out Armstrong then, huh?

We don't have AC's blood values or anybody elses.