Astana? What will happen?

[RdBiker]

If you call sitting on Contador's wheel for a whole Vuelta and disappearing on every major Giro climb great help......

Well actually I recall atleast one (might be more) mountain stage where Levi set tempo for Contador. Besides if there had been more dangerous attacks he would've surely been ordered to cover them.

 

[Tangled Tango]

Sounds about right to me. Why does anyone think Contador is happy with the current situation. He said at the start of all this, that he wasn't. I think he's just now being professional and biding his time.

Contador will NOT be riding for Bruyneel next year. You can take that to bank.

And yes, this is a problem for Astana. Find Levi's recent interview with Velonews. Doesn't sound like he thinks Contador is the leader. Levi's even laboring under the notion that he could win. LA has said he's there to win in the same interview. Screw his earlier comments about supporting Contador. LA's there to support LA.

I personally think Levi and Lance will work together. Not sure who'll support Contador on Astana. Might be pathetic to see them both dropped on major climbs though. Levi's incapable of responding to Contador's accelerations. LA we don't know about yet.

We could see some fun in the mountains. Suppose Contador puts in one of his attacks and drops LA. Who'd be surprised to see Levi pacing LA back to Contador?

Bruyneel's really screwed the pooch on this one. Losing Contador will be something he'll regret. And Bruyneel will be left without a tour contendor.

I think you´ve got it spot on. Lance will have Levi, Horner & possibly Chechu if he makes the selection. Contador may have the other two fellow countrymen, but Lance has the money and Bruyneel is in Lance´s pocket always has been. I never believed Bruyneel´s and Lance´s promises to support Contador or Lance´s assurances that Contador was the leader.

There will either be an obvious split or a subversive split. Contador is too smart not to cover his bases and he has already been forging aliances to help keep him from isolation during the race.

Levi seemed to peak at the Giro so I can´t see him doing much more beyond helpng Lance and I doubt he´ll be of much use in the high mtns. Chris may end up stronger than expected and with Lance anything´s possible, but he certainly won´t keep his word that he´s there to support Contador.

It will be like 1986 when the French supported Hinault and the British & US supported Lemond regardless of what was promised.

 

[hfer07]

I have seen valuable people let go in the business world because it came out that they were seeking alternate employment. On one level, it makes sense that Contador was trying to cover his bases during the Astana affair. On another, he has been making all kinds of alliances to protect against real or perceived threat from Lance taking over as leader. Bottom line is that Contador has never been what I would call leadership material. Like him or hate him, Lance knows how to lead a team and that is what we can count on him doing come July 4. Contador just screwed himself.

what everybody sees here is that LA does NOT have the level to compete against AC "on the road" - so his best shot at him is to use his only intact power left to f*ck Alberto's chances by bashing him on twitter & using the mind games-- but is funny because as much as LA pushes his way to impose authority over him--AC is the one looking away from that crap--he'll get another team next year and move on while Armstrong will be stuck with his senior bodies & looking desperately for a young rider to succumb to his will...

 

[Bala Verde]

Anyone know how much English or French Contador speaks? Those would be the two most likely languages he would learn growing up into cycling. But like I said, I'm sure they communicate okay in a mish-mash of languages. Must be fun being a fly on the wall.

As I said before, Contador does hardly speak any English. It's been said that the team has major difficulties enticing him to do any kind of promotional activities outside Spain. On top of that, how often did Lance and Contador ride together this year? If Menchov still had difficulties in his 3rd-4th year with Rabobank, I seriously doubt that communication is easy between two men that hardly speak each others language and have yet to ride their first race together...

And English and French as cycling languages? For a Spaniard it's likely limited to Spanish only since Spanish riders (like Italians) have so many domestic and qualitatively amazing races throughout their junior years that they hardly get exposed to any other language. If it weren't for the odd foreigners (belgians, dutch, germans etc on the satellite teams of pro teams), who go their to compete at the highest level in rather demanding circumstances, I think no one would even speak anything but Spanish...

 

[Anonymous]

What's Astana look like next year?

Who will the Russian mobsters try to keep for Vino?

I imagine UCI will have them on a short leash.

 

[39*23t]

As I said before, Contador does hardly speak any English. It's been said that the team has major difficulties enticing him to do any kind of promotional activities outside Spain. On top of that, how often did Lance and Contador ride together this year? If Menchov still had difficulties in his 3rd-4th year with Rabobank, I seriously doubt that communication is easy between two men that hardly speak each others language and have yet to ride their first race together...

And English and French as cycling languages? For a Spaniard it's likely limited to Spanish only since Spanish riders (like Italians) have so many domestic and qualitatively amazing races throughout their junior years that they hardly get exposed to any other language. If it weren't for the odd foreigners (belgians, dutch, germans etc on the satellite teams of pro teams), who go their to compete at the highest level in rather demanding circumstances, I think no one would even speak anything but Spanish...

the hog rode for several years on the once squad surly he should of picked up a bit of the lingo.

 

[Bala Verde]

the hog rode for several years on the once squad surly he should of picked up a bit of the lingo.

Just like Breukink, but the perhaps excellent communication between Breukink and Menchov did not really trickle down leading to an improved understanding between equipiers and the captain.

I can only imagine what it must be like at the dinner table after a stage. Johan, Lance, Levi, Horner (?) and Popovich chattering away, cracking their jokes (like the Levi and Lance show on livestrong), while the acclaimed Roy d'Astana is sitting quietly in a corner, with Kloden, Haimar, the token Kazach and someone else...

The king of France in the proximity of the unruly anglo-saxons, over which he is supposed to reign, but who he cannot really understand. That's a morale booster for a three week summer camp, sharing bunk beds...

 

[hfer07]

As I said before, Contador does hardly speak any English. It's been said that the team has major difficulties enticing him to do any kind of promotional activities outside Spain. On top of that, how often did Lance and Contador ride together this year? If Menchov still had difficulties in his 3rd-4th year with Rabobank, I seriously doubt that communication is easy between two men that hardly speak each others language and have yet to ride their first race together...

And English and French as cycling languages? For a Spaniard it's likely limited to Spanish only since Spanish riders (like Italians) have so many domestic and qualitatively amazing races throughout their junior years that they hardly get exposed to any other language. If it weren't for the odd foreigners (belgians, dutch, germans etc on the satellite teams of pro teams), who go their to compete at the highest level in rather demanding circumstances, I think no one would even speak anything but Spanish...

So nowadays cycling quality is based on the amount of languages that a cyclist speaks fluently?--Miguel Indurain only speaks Spanish and look at his achievements though....
if that's the case, the Americans are at the bottom, since they seem lost if nobody speaks English at all, and they 're the particular group refusing to learn another language in the peloton.


PS. can u tell me once more what the language argument has to do with the Astana situation at all?

 

[halamala]

Tour de France 2009, final roster, Astana

Lance Armstrong
Alberto Contador
Andreas Klöden
Levi Leipheimer
Dimitriy Muravyev
Sergio Paulinho
Yaroslav Popovych
Gregory Rast
Haimar Zubeldia

Source: http://media.musictoday.com/store/ba...ge/TZCT013.JPG

 

[Anonymous]

Tour de France 2009, final roster, Astana

Lance Armstrong
Alberto Contador
Andreas Klöden
Levi Leipheimer
Dimitriy Muravyev
Sergio Paulinho
Yaroslav Popovych
Gregory Rast
Haimar Zubeldia

Source: http://media.musictoday.com/store/ba...ge/TZCT013.JPG

i was afraid of that.. no chris horner... just couldn't get back fast enough.

 

[toppermost]

I have a feeling Armstrong knows some spanish...

Love him or hate him, Lance is not an idiot... and if George W. could learn Spainish so could Lance. Nuff' said!

 

[inputjoe]

Armstrong interview with french journalist, Michel Drucker (velo-club.net):

Pour la 1ère fois, vous allez devoir partager votre statut de leader avec Alberto Contador au sein de la formation Astana. Comment allez-vous gérer cette situation ?

L.A : C’est effectivement un cas de figure inédit pour moi. Alberto a beaucoup de talent. C’est le meilleur grimpeur du monde. Il a dix ans de moins que moi, ce qui n’est pas négligeable. Mais il est encore trop nerveux, trop fougueux. En ce qui concerne la stratégie, c’est la course quoi décidera. Il faudra être loyal. Et rouler pour celui qui sera en position de gagner.

Compte tenu de ces paramètres, pouvez-vous espérer une 8ème victoire dans le Tour ?

L.A : Tout ce que je peux vous dire ; c’est que je suis en très grande forme. Je m’entraîne tous les jours (NDLR : En moyenne 180 km à 2 500 mètres d’altitude). Souvent seul. Parfois avec Leipheimer et Horner, deux de mes coéquipiers qui sont chez moi actuellement à Aspen. Je pourrai également compter avec Popovych et quelques autres très bons coureurs. On ne peut pas gagner le tour sans une équipe forte. Mon équipe, Astana, sera au top. Le vainqueur sera celui qui aura passé sans encombre les quatre étapes suivantes : Monaco, Andorre, Annecy et le Ventoux. J’espère être parmi les premiers à l’arrivée de ces obstacles majeurs.

 

[Cobblestones]

Tour de France 2009, final roster, Astana

Lance Armstrong
Alberto Contador
Andreas Klöden
Levi Leipheimer
Dimitriy Muravyev
Sergio Paulinho
Yaroslav Popovych
Gregory Rast
Haimar Zubeldia

Source: http://media.musictoday.com/store/ba...ge/TZCT013.JPG

Only one of Contador's loyal men. And Kloden is in. Hmm

 

[cyclingworld]

Its the matter of survival of the fittest!!

Got a webcam. Create a Videopoke Now!

 

[Bala Verde]

So nowadays cycling quality is based on the amount of languages that a cyclist speaks fluently?

Depends on who one works with. I bet you'd feel really comfortable working as the leader of a team whose members only speak a language you don't understand.

It really isn't hard to understand that when you are 3 weeks on the road, crammed like sardines in a bus or hotel, eating breakfast and dinners together, basically spending 24 hrs per day on each others lap, that communication is a good thing...

Ever seen an anglo-saxon being succesful on a French team, or Spanish team, or Italian team? Oh and what happened between Lemond and Hinault again, that nasty TdF in 1986, followed by a team split along linguistic lines... Oh, any reason perhaps why Sastre wants to take Marchante and Cuesta to the TdF? Erm, Vandevelde is surrounded by english speaking equipiers etc.

--Miguel Indurain only speaks Spanish and look at his achievements though....

First, his nickname was Miguel the Silent
Secondly, he was surrounded by mainly Spanish team mates.

if that's the case, the Americans are at the bottom, since they seem lost if nobody speaks English at all, and they 're the particular group refusing to learn another language in the peloton.

Who were Armstrong's closest team mates in his Motorola/US Postal/Disco years? He wasn't on a 'foreign' team. It has nothing to do with how many languages you speak, as long as your most trusted helperfairies speak the same language. Nonetheless, speaking muliple languages in the peloton won't do you any harm, and I doubt Americans stubbornly refuse to learn other languages...

PS. can u tell me once more what the language argument has to do with the Astana situation at all?

Read post number one really, really carefully (it actually does not contain too many letters). Also, read TITLE of THREAD. They give away some clues.

 

[Bala Verde]

Love him or hate him, Lance is not an idiot... and if George W. could learn Spainish so could Lance. Nuff' said!

Loved it when he (W) made a fool of himself (one of the many times) in France. He felt it necesarry to accuse some French journalist that he didn't know what the word 'entrepreneur' meant... The only Spanish I ever heard coming from his (W) mouth sounded like he was doing a Taco Bell comercial...

 

[hfer07]

Depends on who one works with. I bet you'd feel really comfortable working as the leader of a team whose members only speak a language you don't understand.

So you're undoubtedly saying that LA is the absolute leader? based on that I realized where are you coming from with this nonsense....

It really isn't hard to understand that when you are 3 weeks on the road, crammed like sardines in a bus or hotel, eating breakfast and dinners together, basically spending 24 hrs per day on each others lap, that communication is a good thing...

So Zubelbia, kloden & even Bruyneel are gointo to stop taking to AC , because LA, LL & CH are around?


Ever seen an anglo-saxon being succesful on a French team, or Spanish team, or Italian team? Oh and what happened between Lemond and Hinault again, that nasty TdF in 1986, followed by a team split along linguistic lines... Oh, any reason perhaps why Sastre wants to take Marchante and Cuesta to the TdF? Erm, Vandevelde is surrounded by english speaking equipiers etc.

You just said it. Sastre & Basso already have done it- just to mention few.... & BTW- the problem between Hinault & Lemond wasn't a LANGUAGE ISSUE since Greg speaks fluent french....


First, his nickname was Miguel the Silent
Secondly, he was surrounded by mainly Spanish team mates.

Well- I wonder how he talked to Jean Francois Bernard & Alex Zulle an the other "non spaniards" back in those days....


Who were Armstrong's closest team mates in his Motorola/US Postal/Disco years? He wasn't on a 'foreign' team. It has nothing to do with how many languages you speak, as long as your most trusted helperfairies speak the same language. Nonetheless, speaking muliple languages in the peloton won't do you any harm, and I doubt Americans stubbornly refuse to learn other languages...



Read post number one really, really carefully (it actually does not contain too many letters). Also, read TITLE of THREAD. They give away some clues.

well, I read it and the article explains the inner battle in Astana for Leadership, not the Language barrier stupidity you are writing about
I guess you desperetley need to know this:

communication:is a process of transferring information from one source to another. Communication processes are sign-mediated interactions between at least two agents which share a repertoire of signs and semiotic rules. Communication is commonly defined as "the imparting or interchange of thoughts, opinions, or information by speech, writing, or signs". Communication can be perceived as a two-way process in which there is an exchange and progression of thoughts, feelings or ideas towards a mutually accepted[clarification needed] goal or direction.


language: the words, their pronunciation, and the methods of combining them used and understood by a community

 

[gatete]

I even started a Thread not too long ago about Lance being the team leader,
Gosh I wish I was wrong but the closest we get to the the Tour, the clearer it seems to me that Lance will definitelly be, like I've been saying in many of my posts: the writing in the wall is clearer and brighter than ever.

Contador shoul've move out of there, Astana is and was Alexander's team, they don't care about AC or even Lance precence, there is really nothing that suggest long terms for AC in that team.

 

[Juan Pelota]

That really really sucks that Horner won't be riding.

 

[BroDeal]

That really really sucks that Horner won't be riding.

There are six riders on that team that will provide less support than Horner would have, assuming his injury has healed.

 

[RdBiker]

Armstrong interview with french journalist, Michel Drucker (velo-club.net):

Pour la 1ère fois, vous allez devoir partager votre statut de leader avec Alberto Contador au sein de la formation Astana. Comment allez-vous gérer cette situation ?

L.A : C’est effectivement un cas de figure inédit pour moi. Alberto a beaucoup de talent. C’est le meilleur grimpeur du monde. Il a dix ans de moins que moi, ce qui n’est pas négligeable. Mais il est encore trop nerveux, trop fougueux. En ce qui concerne la stratégie, c’est la course quoi décidera. Il faudra être loyal. Et rouler pour celui qui sera en position de gagner.

Compte tenu de ces paramètres, pouvez-vous espérer une 8ème victoire dans le Tour ?

L.A : Tout ce que je peux vous dire ; c’est que je suis en très grande forme. Je m’entraîne tous les jours (NDLR : En moyenne 180 km à 2 500 mètres d’altitude). Souvent seul. Parfois avec Leipheimer et Horner, deux de mes coéquipiers qui sont chez moi actuellement à Aspen. Je pourrai également compter avec Popovych et quelques autres très bons coureurs. On ne peut pas gagner le tour sans une équipe forte. Mon équipe, Astana, sera au top. Le vainqueur sera celui qui aura passé sans encombre les quatre étapes suivantes : Monaco, Andorre, Annecy et le Ventoux. J’espère être parmi les premiers à l’arrivée de ces obstacles majeurs.

When was this done? If it's recent then I'm very very afraid that Astana will completely **** it up. Does Armstrong really believe that he is stronger than Contador and able to win the Tour? Or does he just believe that after he has gained the yellow jersey he can hang on with the rest of the guys if Contador sets a fast tempo up the few final climbs? I just took a look at the profile of the first stage and the TT should suit the Armstrong of old very well. I'm still thinking of Cancellara or Evans for the win but if Lance has indeed made huge leaps in his form in the past month he might very well beat Contador.

 

[craig1985]

his exact post for those without twitter

@lancearmstrong What do you make of this Lance? Any truth to it? in relation to this link>http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/2009/06/23/lances-team-in-turmoil/

"@stevedav Just read this. JL may not be far off on this (for once). I'm choosing 2 ignore and remove myself from drama. TdF - hard enough.."

pretty much confirms what we all already guessed..

i think the odds are ever shortening on contador failing a drug test during the tour..

Pardon my ignorance, but if Contador failing a dope test, how will that benefit Armstrong in anyway since it would mean the team gets thrown out of the race, it makes Armstrong look bad and hurt his chances of him having a team in the future in the Tour (mind you not that has hurt Saxo Bank)?

Funnily enough speaking of Leipheimer being a team-mate to Contador at this year's Tour, Bruyneel couldn't sing Leipheimer's praises enough as a team-mate and a team player in his book You May As well Win (I thought it was pretty average as cycling books goes, but that is a different thread) during the 2007 Tour.

When Contador won the stage to Plateau-de-Beille, Rasmussen went up to Leipheimer after the stage and said he should tell Contador to not ride like a little girl, to which the story wound back to Bruyneel who decided to keep it a secret and praised Leipheimer for being such a team player for giving up useful information to help Contador win the race. Anyway long story short on the next day on the Col de Peyresourde, Bruyneel repeated the story the story to Contador (obviously in Spanish) which drew a big reaction from Contador (you would remember how he kept on attacking Rasmussen over and over).

However, make of that what you will.

 

[craig1985]

Just like Breukink, but the perhaps excellent communication between Breukink and Menchov did not really trickle down leading to an improved understanding between equipiers and the captain.

I can only imagine what it must be like at the dinner table after a stage. Johan, Lance, Levi, Horner (?) and Popovich chattering away, cracking their jokes (like the Levi and Lance show on livestrong), while the acclaimed Roy d'Astana is sitting quietly in a corner, with Kloden, Haimar, the token Kazach and someone else...

The king of France in the proximity of the unruly anglo-saxons, over which he is supposed to reign, but who he cannot really understand. That's a morale booster for a three week summer camp, sharing bunk beds...

I always thought Menchov's English wasn't too bad (nothing special, but better then Sastre's English) in the interview's he has done. But if need be has Oscar Freire English is quite good and apparently Juan Antonio Flecha and Pedro Horillo, if they are not fluent in English, then they are close to being fluent. Did Freire know English before he joined Rabobank (or before when he was at Mapei) or did he learn it when he joined?

 

[Amsterhammer]

Menchov speaks English like a Spaniard and is perfectly understandable. He just has this annoying habit of punctuating every sentence with 'no?'.

For what it's worth, Bruyneel has confirmed that Contador will be Astana's 'numero uno'.

 

[Bala Verde]

....

Thank you!

I was completely unaware of the existence of a dictionary definition of the word "communication" and "language". Next time when I have problems understanding forum related issues, I will send you a PM, so you can help me give meaning to posts. I am keen on using you for such personal services, because it saves me a lot of time. I sometimes struggle to understand some posts, but since I want to keep on communicating here, I put in a lot of time. As a non-native english speaker I really appreciate you taking the time to improve my language skills.

You analysis was definitely impeccable.