At what point did cycling become "clean"?

[sniper]

I cant recall live climbing speeds. I can be mistaken. The closest it comes is in the Vuelta where they show the grade of the climb live.

It would be very interesting though, live speeds, wattages.

and very easy, having motors up there.
seems telling that they don't.

 

[Ferminal]

That line of reasoning is silly. Doping diminishes when the risk/reward ratio is reduced. Simple as. No morals necessarily involved.

It potentially can. It would be a deterrent if all the participants in the sport were sincerely outraged by doping and consistently made that clear in both public and private.

That has never been the case though, and doesn't look to be changing anytime soon.

 

[thehog]

I cant recall live climbing speeds. I can be mistaken. The closest it comes is in the Vuelta where they show the grade of the climb live.

It would be very interesting though, live speeds, wattages.
Yep. L'histoire ce repete.

They also need some form of mutant level on the screen as well. Once they clock say of 25km p/h going uphill it goes into the red mutant zone and starts flashing. Just to warn the viewers that what they are watching is probably and most likely enhanced.

 

[the sceptic]

They also need some form of mutant level on the screen as well. Once they clock say of 25km p/h going uphill it goes into the red mutant zone and starts flashing. Just to warn the viewers that what they are watching is probably and most likely enhanced.

lol yes that would be great. the whole screen flashing and alarms going off when they go above 5.99w/kg.

 

[The Hitch]

They also need some form of mutant level on the screen as well. Once they clock say of 25km p/h going uphill it goes into the red mutant zone and starts flashing. Just to warn the viewers that what they are watching is probably and most likely enhanced.

Apparently during the lance era the commentators on Eurosport in Romania would do just that, start making jokes about how lance (or basso, mayo) must have had a succesful refill day, or found out they don't have control today etc, whenever they'd start flying away in gt mountains.

 

[the sceptic]

Apparently during the lance era the commentators on Eurosport in Romania would do just that, start making jokes about how lance (or basso, mayo) must have had a succesful refill day, or found out they don't have control today etc, whenever they'd start flying away in gt mountains.

Damn. that sounds like jens_attacks commenting. That would be so much better than the crappy OmertaSport we get here.

 

[hrotha]

It potentially can. It would be a deterrent if all the participants in the sport were sincerely outraged by doping and consistently made that clear in both public and private.

That has never been the case though, and doesn't look to be changing anytime soon.

Indeed, hence the "necessarily" in my post.

 

[Benotti69]

For those selling the cleanER sport

http://theouterline.com/?page_id=155

Many recommendations have been made over the past few years about how to fix pro cycling, but too many have been vague promises or empty platitudes, lacking substantive detail or goals. Here, we present a new “roadmap” for the future – a comprehensive, specific, measurable and actionable four-point plan to truly repair the sport. Written in the spirit of influencing true and lasting change, this report looks from the outside in, to bring fresh perspectives and illuminate new paths to the future.
This sport has declared a “new beginning” many times before. This time, cycling has to make it stick. The stakeholders of pro cycling should evaluate and seriously consider the recommendations in this roadmap – in order to halt what has too often been a race to the bottom, and instead begin to create a race to the top.

there is an 11 page summary for those who dont want to read the full report.

This report has been done because the sport is sick!

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

For those selling the cleanER sport

http://theouterline.com/?page_id=155



there is an 11 page summary for those who dont want to read the full report.

This report has been done because the sport is sick!

Off to work my way through the report, and in the mean time they at least have a new twitter follower...


Thanks, Benno.

 

[thehog]

Transperancy and cycling, big lolz here.

I remember the 1994 Mont Ventoux stage at the Tour where dear Eros Ramozotti, uhhh, Poli crawled to the top of Mont Ventoux. I think at one point he was riding at about six kilometres an hour, perhaps ten. Thirty minutes later the EPO filled pack started the climb to Ventoux, Indurain had already won the Tour by then after his annihillation at Hautacam - EPO POWERRRRRR - and let Pantani have his silly attack. About a kilometre before Chalet Reynard Indurain paced himself and cycled to the top in his own tempo. UCI and the Societe de Tour de France [no ASO back then, not sure about that] thought that year it would be fun to show how fast the cyclists were riding LIVE, well, when Indurain reached chalet Reynard and moved to the moonscape of Ventoux he was riding at the speed of 27k per hour .

Somehow we never saw that kind of transperancy again...

Here you go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tFM7wcMiPdI#t=3476

The fun in that video starts at minute 58.

Transperancy and UCI, well, never seen that after, lol.

I saw Virenque and had to tear his face off the TV! Doper!

 

[sittingbison]

Ok fellas, take the time to read this post please.

Rule numero uno has a slight inconsistency:

The Big Rule
If you break this rule, you're eligible for an instant and possibly permanent ban.
• Using racist, sexist, homophobic or hateful language.

Using the adage of "race colour or creed" you can include religious vilification in that list as well.

Make no mistake, I will come down on any of you like a ton of bricks if you resort to abusing this concept, no matter how you try and dress it up.

Capiche? Comprende?

cheers
bison

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Ok fellas, take the time to read this post please.

Rule numero uno has a slight inconsistency:


Using the adage of "race colour or creed" you can include religious vilification in that list as well.

Make no mistake, I will come down on any of you like a ton of bricks if you resort to abusing this concept, no matter how you try and dress it up.

Capiche? Comprende?

cheers
bison

Non capiche o comprende...

Are you trying to be cryptic?

 

[sittingbison]

There is nothing cryptic in what I said JMBeaushrimp.

I have edited out some prior comments so it might not be so evident, but my comment stands alone anyway.

Racist, sexist or religious vilification will not be tolerated.

cheers
bison

 

[proffate]

There is nothing cryptic in what I said JMBeaushrimp.

I have edited out some prior comments so it might not be so evident, but my comment stands alone anyway.

Racist, sexist or religious vilification will not be tolerated.

cheers
bison

It is quite confusing when you remove all the content that gives your post context.

 

[sittingbison]

It is quite confusing when you remove all the content that gives your post context.

true. sorry about that, had to do it though.

So the context then becomes it is never acceptable to racially, sexually or religiously vilify someone under any circumstances. Keep well clear of those tenets.

cheers
bison

 

[Benotti69]

here is a great article

http://crankpunk.com/2013/12/11/the-lies-our-dads-told-us/

Ullrich’s message is loud and clear. Being labeled a drug cheat is not a punishment.

A career built on lies has paid off very handsomely for him.

His ‘holiday lifestyle’ sees him living on the shore of Lake Constance in Switzerland, a lifestyle that has been paid for on the back of cheating.

These days he spends his time with fans who pay to ride with him.

In a statement that lacks any remorseful sentiment he says, “I live with it [doping] comfortably, I have my life back on track”.

This bit is so true

There are far too many examples out there of former dopers continuing to make a healthy living from the sport they’ve ripped off.

Until we change this, and put some meaning back into the saying, ‘cheats never prosper’, doping will remain an attractive option.

 

[Ferminal]

Would be interesting to track the lives of top cyclists in retirement and see if differences in the extent to which their doping has been revealed affects their relationship with the sport.

So you have Merckx and Indurain who every now and then get wheeled out as legends plus the occasional idiot comments given to the media. It's almost as though everyone tries as hard as possible to avoid looking at them as dopers.

Then those actively involved in the sport say Kelly, Jalabert, Riis - who never transitioned away from the "nothing to see here".

Armstrong who still pretends he's in one of the above groups but is now taking the blame for everyone (can't think of others like him?)

Then those who are maybe enigmas, around the periphery, no longer a part or trying to be a part of the inner sport. They have frankly admitted, or their doping was so obvious it was part of their character. Ullrich is one, probably Landis. What about Virenque? Pantani when he was alive? Basically where the facade isn't there, and hasn't been for a long time.

Does your relationship with the sport become more natural as you slide down? Not trying hard to make that point, it's just interesting to see how everyone has ended up where they are.

 

[thehog]

here is a great article

http://crankpunk.com/2013/12/11/the-lies-our-dads-told-us/



This bit is so true

Equally there are many whom have not made a living from it.

Some die or get very sick.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...o-Theunisse-after-multiple-heart-attacks.aspx

GJT still ticking with a pacemaker.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Wasn't there an article a couple of years back about a former pro who took so much EPO over his career that his body basically shut down natural production?

He needs EPO just to survive now.



These are the sort of stories that need publicizing more. The upside to cheating and doping is readily seen, the lifetime of downsides needs hammering home.

 

[thehog]

Wasn't there an article a couple of years back about a former pro who took so much EPO over his career that his body basically shut down natural production?

He needs EPO just to survive now.



These are the sort of stories that need publicizing more. The upside to cheating and doping is readily seen, the lifetime of downsides needs hammering home.

Yes his blood became like Nutella

Or maybe he ate too much Nutella?

Can't remember.

I think there are a 100 folklore stories about "Dutch pros" dying.

Who are these Dutch Pros that died? No idea.

Folklore.

 

[Ferminal]

Wasn't there an article a couple of years back about a former pro who took so much EPO over his career that his body basically shut down natural production?

He needs EPO just to survive now.

This probably isn't rare, maybe not so much EPO but the steroids/hormones. Not just in pro athletes either...

 

[Catwhoorg]

Steroids for sure its a common side effect.

I ma sure its part of what the drug companies love about Low T treatment.

Not only is it vague and encompasses a large number of people, the treatment shuts down whatever steroid production is going on.

Once you are on it, its VERY hard to get off.



The EPO story was a new one on me when I read it (and I cannot recall where I read it), so was throwing it out there for verification.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

http://www.cicloweb.it/news/2013/12...a-volta-a-portugal.html#.Uqr1ArHyiuc.facebook

 

[RedheadDane]

It hasn't!
It has become cleaner, let's face it; that didn't take much, but it hasn't become clean, just look at the recent positive of Marque.

I don't think any competition will ever be 'clean', as long as there are ways to cheat, there'll be people using them.

 

[sniper]

It hasn't!
It has become cleaner, let's face it; that didn't take much, but it hasn't become clean, just look at the recent positive of Marque.

I don't think any competition will ever be 'clean', as long as there are ways to cheat, there'll be people using them.

doping may have become less in terms of quantity but it has also become more sophisticated according to ashenden and according to common sense reasoning.
those with a stake in procycling sell the post-lance/biopassport era as clean(er) and obviously ignore the 'more sophisticated' side of the story.