At what point do you walk away?

[flicker]

What sillyness.

Clapton on an acid trip makes him better than Santana on heroin?

If clean musicians weren't competitive then maybe you'd have something.

This is just trolling.

Really.You ever hear of Tom Waits. When he and Rickie Lee Jones were slamming they were top knotch. Now they are definently 3rd tier musicians. How bout my faves Miles Davis and John Coltrane?

 

[Anonymous]

Really.You ever hear of Tom Waits. When he and Rickie Lee Jones were slamming they were top knotch. Now they are definently 3rd tier musicians. How bout my faves Miles Davis and John Coltrane?

Wow. You have trumped my point with your analogy. I never knew there was such performance enhancements when musicians are on the hot sauce.

Just for my edification, does PED use work for drummers too or is it just limited to guitarists?

I once saw David Lee Roth perform on some type of PED. I don't think it works too well for singers. He was so enhanced he could barley get through the set.

 

[flicker]

Wow. You have trumped my point with your analogy. I never knew there was such performance enhancements when musicians are on the hot sauce.

Just for my edification, does PED use work for drummers too or is it just limited to guitarists?

I once saw David Lee Roth perform on some type of PED. I don't think it works too well for singers. He was so enhanced he could barley get through the set.

John Barleycorn is not considered a ped. I have to say Ginger Baker played epic drums with cream un-enhanced. tee-hee

 

[The Hitch]

Really.You ever hear of Tom Waits. When he and Rickie Lee Jones were slamming they were top knotch. Now they are definently 3rd tier musicians. How bout my faves Miles Davis and John Coltrane?

Tom Waits is the same now as he has always been.

Drugs wont help in music.

If Waits gives a performance 7 out of 10 or 10 out of 10, it doesnt matter, hes sold the tickets, and people are there to see him live and will like it regardless. If Contador rides a moutanin at 7 out of 10 or 10 out of 10 its the difference between no hoper, and yellow jersey.

 

[Der_Gestreifte]

Just for my edification, does PED use work for drummers too or is it just limited to guitarists?

I know drummers who are great on amphetamines and THC. One of them is great when loaded with both substances.


@topic: when they start using gene doping, that would definitely be the red line.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Doping is cheating. People will always try & cheat. As long as people are caught & given proper penalties then that's ok with me. Riders getting banned for a few months end of season or the top riders getting treated differently, then that would put me off.

At least they're cheating to win. I'm a big cricket fan and try to watch all of England's games but after all the match/spot fixing allegations involving ****stan I lost interest.

Nice post. Exact way i see it.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=354022#post354022

In bold: That´s the problem we might face with Contador. I naively tought days days were over (Valv-Piti, Armstrong).

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Well I guess your right... it would be hard for the image of professional cycling to sink much farther. It would seem that self righteous indignation has won the day.

I am sure that we would all be fascinated by the changes in Pro Cycling that you advocate, and which would improve the situation. Please illuminate us all, on how the sport can be saved.

Whats with the attitude?
Did you ask me my opinion or is it because I am anti-doping you decide that my views are made on some morals or "self righteous indignation"?
Is that not self righteous?

In trying to be smart you missed the point - cycling is perceived as being the doping sport, whether it is true or not, whether you and I agree or not.

Sports, including Cycling, are marketed and sold on the 'clean' image.

The solution is simple.
All anti-doping, from testing through to sanctions done by an independent body set up through WADA. The UCI would then do what it is set up to do, govern and promote the sport (and write dumb rules).
Subject to outside scrutiny, the UCI and other stakeholders would quickly become proactive in trying to curb the doping from the sport.

Here's the best part, other sports would eventually have to submit to the same independent controls. How do you think tennis, swimming, soccer etc would do under that system? ..... Exactly.


I don't give a shit about other sports - I am a cyclist so my views aren't self righteous, they are self serving.

 

[erader]

I think that´s the problem of every sport which needs power and/or endurance and/or speed. As far as i know those talents are needed in every pro sport.

I don´t have the golden idea how to save cycling, but something must be done.

Edit: I don´t wanna end up with kind of wrestling fans who only want a show. That would be pukey.

the problem is not the doping; it's the witch hunt. pro cyclists have always doped and always will. look at that mess that calderon's created in mexico. mexico will never be sucessful against the drug cartels because its government, military and police force are just as corrupt. it's the same in cycling.

enforce the rules but stop the witch hunt.

erader

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Makes sense erader. But i don´t see the UCI as bad as Mexicos government, b/c at least some riders (including big names) are caught and penalized (but then again, that may has to do with the WADA being included in the anti doping process).

Dr Maserati came up with that good idea, that WADA controls the doping from A to Z. We would still have the problem of who controls the controler, but at some point a start has to be made.

 

[uspostal]

An Idea

Why doesn't the tour people whoever they may be take a sample at the beginning of every stage. Send a representave to each bus before or set up a place that all riders must give a sample before starting and do the same thing at the end of each stage. You can of course not run any of the samples or run then all. You can pick different stages to do either one or both, but test everyrider that comes accross the finish line. Port-a potties would be fine no running water and blue stuff in the toile, Just a thought.

 

[flicker]

Why doesn't the tour people whoever they may be take a sample at the beginning of every stage. Send a representave to each bus before or set up a place that all riders must give a sample before starting and do the same thing at the end of each stage. You can of course not run any of the samples or run then all. You can pick different stages to do either one or both, but test everyrider that comes accross the finish line. Port-a potties would be fine no running water and blue stuff in the toile, Just a thought.

This is the Tour. Why would you want to remove our traditions? It is not high school drug testing.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

This is the Tour. Why would you want to remove our traditions? It is not high school drug testing.

Could you simply shut your stupid mouth?

Your worth here has run down to the bottom of the trench latrine.

Your input is simply without any redeeming value or quality. Go away, FFS.

 

[uspostal]

This is the Tour. Why would you want to remove our traditions? It is not high school drug testing.

Remove your traditions, the drugs, well it seems as if a lot of people want to do that I was just throwing out as suggestion. Maybe it should be more like high school drug testing. I hope your is much better as to how to stop the drug use.

 

[flicker]

Could you simply shut your stupid mouth?

Your worth here has run down to the bottom of the trench latrine.

Your input is simply without any redeeming value or quality. Go away, FFS.

Joker I have not been to the tour. I have read many books about the tour, especially the one by the manager of the clash. Lance was right the tour is ghetto. Accept the fact or watch another sport. Get out of your American Suburban bedroom and get in the big city.

 

[indurain666]

the problem is not the doping; it's the witch hunt. pro cyclists have always doped and always will. look at that mess that calderon's created in mexico. mexico will never be sucessful against the drug cartels because its government, military and police force are just as corrupt. it's the same in cycling.

enforce the rules but stop the witch hunt.

erader

Couldn't agree more, our sport has been a total joke since 1998. I wish it could be like tennis, track and field or football where they let get away with quite a bit but they still draw the line somewhere (e.g. track and field's max allowable testosterone levels are quite high)

 

[tubularglue]

I can't see how any of you(us) people who truly addicted to cycling quit watching pros just because of such an insignificant issue as yet another doping case.

for some strange reason, i agree with the above statement.

Bikepure ? - marketing geniuses

 

[tubularglue]

Couldn't agree more, our sport has been a total joke since 1998. I wish it could be like tennis, track and field or football where they let get away with quite a bit but they still draw the line somewhere (e.g. track and field's max allowable testosterone levels are quite high)

I am thinking the joke has been played since the 1800's

The first bicycle race is popularly held to have been a 1,200 metre race on the 31 May 1868 at the Parc de Saint-Cloud, Paris. It was won by expatriate Englishman James Moore who rode a wooden bicycle with iron tires.

 

[Anonymous]

Thinking about this some more since I posted earlier. I dont think I ever could walk away from cycling. It may be that in the future I switch my intrest from Tour's to local or domestic racing, or the u23 or something, but Ive been following the sport and to a lesser extent participating in the sport for 25 years.

One thing that has changed for me, is that I dont always support winners anymore. I celebrate podiums, or top 10's or top 20's from riders Im pretty sure are clean. I support great performances from riders even if they dont win, or even finish a race. I couldnt care that Contador won the tour, or Schleck came second, but I do enjoy the fact that Hesjedal placed well, or that geraint came second on a stage. I would rather support a clean rider finishing 10th now, than a doped one winning.

There are obvious exceptions, I cant help loving vino.

The positive side of me says what I said earlier. Ten years ago every positive was a step in the wrong direction, now, hopefully every positive is a step in the right direction.

The cynic in me says, if it appears too good to be true, it probably is.

 

[flicker]

Remove your traditions, the drugs, well it seems as if a lot of people want to do that I was just throwing out as suggestion. Maybe it should be more like high school drug testing. I hope your is much better as to how to stop the drug use.

It has always been my stand that the teaching of honesty should be done at home(with family) and reinforced by school, work and church.
How drug testing keeps people honest? The people who want to work to support their families quit drugs so they pass the drug testing.
The others cheat. Simple as that, human nature.

 

[tubularglue]

And sometimes, with honesty, action precedes understanding.


just a thought

 

[Maxiton]

the problem is not the doping; it's the witch hunt. pro cyclists have always doped and always will. look at that mess that calderon's created in mexico. mexico will never be sucessful against the drug cartels because its government, military and police force are just as corrupt. it's the same in cycling.

enforce the rules but stop the witch hunt.

erader

Couldn't agree more, our sport has been a total joke since 1998. I wish it could be like tennis, track and field or football where they let get away with quite a bit but they still draw the line somewhere (e.g. track and field's max allowable testosterone levels are quite high)

I think I'll quit following pro cycling when I lose interest. I'll lose interest when it's generally accepted that cycling is just spectacle, entertainment, a corrupt sideshow. Of course cycling is already there, I think it goes without saying, but most fans and even riders haven't yet given up on the idea of cycling being something more: an ennobling, healthy competition.

We enjoy cycling, both the watching and the riding, because we are elevated by it. To accept that it's an anything goes, total doping zone sideshow, a mere commercial entertainment, pre-packed to be consumed in comfort, is to be corrupted and degraded, whether we are viewers or participants.

To say that cycling needs to find some sort of accommodation with doping, in the way of other pro sports such as tennis or football (soccer) or football (American): from a pragmatic standpoint (see Vaughter's comments on Contador) this might keep cycling alive and viable; but I suspect it's already too late for that, in part because doping is too endemic throughout cycling's history.

Doping will always be with us in cycling, but for a number of years now it really has been on the verge of ruining our sport even as mere spectacle. The culture of the sport has to change. The real trick is to change the culture without destroying the village.

Personally I think we should start at the top, by replacing the UCI with a new union controlled by riders. Then, eliminate the commercial aspect - which really is the root of all this corruption - by creating national teams funded by governments and private donations. If this were done it would go most of the way toward cleaning up cycling.

 

[forty four]

no offense but most of you just dont get it and have not competed much or have but want excuses for there personal failings and at the same time are naive individuals regarding human habits in general. you want to sit around and watch crazy people who feel riding a bike very fast is very important but yet are dismayed when drugs get used for your amusement and faster speeds. ??????? what do any of you expect grow the **** up or move on. cycling is beautiful doping or not the pedals dont turn on there own find another sport cyclings not for the meek. accept the truth your weak and these guys are mentally and physically better than you.

 

[forty four]

so does any one think you can dope some genetic piece of crap with a weak mind/mental state to do well simply because of dope? no not going to happen but some think with good drugs the bike rides itself. to those who think that well hope you feel better but you live a lie.

 

[tubularglue]

i enjoy cycling
i don't get it
i am meek
i am naive
i need to grow the * up
pedals turn but not on their own
i need to find another sport
and i need to accept the truth

did i miss anything 44

 

[flicker]

no offense but most of you just dont get it and have not competed much or have but want excuses for there personal failings and at the same time are naive individuals regarding human habits in general. you want to sit around and watch crazy people who feel riding a bike very fast is very important but yet are dismayed when drugs get used for your amusement and faster speeds. ??????? what do any of you expect grow the **** up or move on. cycling is beautiful doping or not the pedals dont turn on there own find another sport cyclings not for the meek. accept the truth your weak and these guys are mentally and physically better than you.

Thank you for your opinion Bjarne.