At what point do you walk away?

[Guttercat]

First, it's always been my view that cycling is the most beautiful sport in the world.

But I stopped "following" when I discovered as a youngster that I would have to take the same poison; drink the same Kool Aide as the rest of the big dogs in order to beat them.

Cyclists are a selfish bunch. Anyone who's lived even a small amount of "what it takes" to make it in cycling, knows that for 24/7/365 it's all about the great "me".

So do I feel bad for these guys that go down in a ball of drugged flames? Sure I do. Not one of them set out as youngsters with ideals of cheating to win. But it was their decision to do so. One bad decison can take down a lifetime of everything a person has worked for.

They'd have been better off choosing a different path in life.

Do I still folllow some of the races? Yes. Do I still wish and hope for the best in these athletes? Yes.

But follow? Not a lot. It is what it is. They're only human.

 

[VeloFidelis]

Whats with the attitude?
Did you ask me my opinion or is it because I am anti-doping you decide that my views are made on some morals or "self righteous indignation"?
Is that not self righteous?

In trying to be smart you missed the point - cycling is perceived as being the doping sport, whether it is true or not, whether you and I agree or not.

Sports, including Cycling, are marketed and sold on the 'clean' image.

The solution is simple.
All anti-doping, from testing through to sanctions done by an independent body set up through WADA. The UCI would then do what it is set up to do, govern and promote the sport (and write dumb rules).
Subject to outside scrutiny, the UCI and other stakeholders would quickly become proactive in trying to curb the doping from the sport.

Here's the best part, other sports would eventually have to submit to the same independent controls. How do you think tennis, swimming, soccer etc would do under that system? ..... Exactly.


I don't give a shit about other sports - I am a cyclist so my views aren't self righteous, they are self serving.

Exactly how did I miss the point when you're quoting my post? As to the "self righteous" comment, that was directed at all cycling fans who naively believe that the sport can be cleaned up "simply", not specifically at you. The fact that you would take it there actually makes you self absorbed.

As to your plan, it is simple. It ignores human nature, political realities, logistical probabilities, and the laws of unintended consequences... but hey, it's worth a shot.

But explain to me again why sports that don't have a perceived drug problem by their fans, would adopt the testing program used by the sport with the least credibility with its own. I'm a little fuzzy on that one.

Self righteous is reserved for those fans who only want to see explosive efforts. Who castigate incredible athletes for finishing with the pack instead of the break, and don't see their pervasive attitude as contributing to the culture of doping. Who criticize a rider's "epic collapse" as disgrace and failure, rather than an indication that he may just be riding a little cleaner than the rest.

Are these fans and their thirst for retribution and an unattainably clean sport the best thing cycling has going for it, or the worst? I don't know, but tennis, swimming, soccer have far fewer of these fans, and a far smaller perceived drug problem.

 

[auscyclefan94]

IF Cadel tested positive, I would slit my wrists and kill myself (as a forum poster).

 

[skidmark]

I won't stop being a fan unless my interests change significantly. If they do, that will have nothing to do with doping.

I like riding my bike. I even have enjoyed racing it. Because of my appreciation for bikes and cycling in general, I'm interested in seeing what people do at the highest levels, and because I've cycled hard myself, I appreciate the effort it takes to race at the highest level. On top of that, I love a sport with tactics, and cycling's got plenty of 'em.

I can easily separate my interest in riding a bike and my interest in watching bike racing. I couldn't care who wins, although I'll always hope for the guy whose style and panache I appreciate, or an underdog as I can't help but love 'em. I'll also cheer riders I think might be cleaner, but to a small extent because I take that with a grain of salt. Generally, I'm happy to see a good race, and I'll cheer wildly if the victory is exciting and deserved.

At the end of the day, the guys I watch race train for hours a day, and dedicate their lives to obsessively controlling everything about their diet, weight and training schedule. I just don't think that, in my set of values, that hard work is rendered worthless in my eyes if they dope. I don't really care about some rabid sense of justice. I'm glad that it seems like the tide might be shifting a little bit with the few riders who have risked enough to discuss the doping culture with full disclosure; as far as scope and profile of the rider, the outcome of the Landis allegations will really be a watershed for that, and I'll be disappointed if it doesn't at least help nudge some people along towards being open and transparent. I also hope that all of the focus on doping in cycling makes new riders going into the sport more prepared to reject doping, instead of naively going along with what is routine practice. But if that doesn't happen, I will only be slightly disappointed. My interest in that aspect of things does not trump my interest in watching a good race.

 

[BigBoat]

IF Cadel tested positive, I would slit my wrists and kill myself (as a forum poster).

Whoa bro! Easy there, put the knife down....

 

[Wergeland]

Riders trying to get away with doping is one thing. Pat McQuaid and the UCI flushing positives samples down the toilet acting like nothing has happened is a potential dealbreaker for me. That shows that the whole systems is corrupt and that the hunt for dopers is sabotaged by the UCI. At that point I walk away.

 

[SpartacusRox]

In the Real Peloton Clentador special, Ned Boulting was alluding to his disillusionment with pro cycling and that he's wondering where we go from here. I've already walked away from pro cycling once, at the height of mid-90's EPO culture, and despite all the promises we're no further on. We have had 7 straight victories for doping, followed by a TDF where the winner was disqualified, the Puerto investigation and cover-up, the Astana transfusion kits that seem to have vanished, a huge ongoing investigation encompassing the UCI with clear evidence of corruption and despite that investigation, they are still trying to get away with it.

Personally, were Armstrong to fail to be convicted, Bruyneel fail to be sanctioned in any way and the UCI to remain in place exactly as they are, I would be very close to walking away again. And as a Brit, should Thomas or Kennaugh test positive, then that could do it also. Of course, I would still ride and race, but just ignore the pro scene. What will make you say "f*** it, I can't be bothered"?

I say you should walk away, just give it all up, go club racing but never watch or have anything to do with pro racing and particularly never ever have anything to do with CN Forums. That would make you feel better and it certainly would make me feel better.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Exactly how did I miss the point when you're quoting my post? As to the "self righteous" comment, that was directed at all cycling fans who naively believe that the sport can be cleaned up "simply", not specifically at you. The fact that you would take it there actually makes you self absorbed.

You didn't answer my question - whats with your attitude?

At no point did I say the sport could be cleaned up.
There will always be doping -but ignoring and hiding it, as has been done for the last 10 years has exasperated the problem.

As to your plan, it is simple. It ignores human nature, political realities, logistical probabilities, and the laws of unintended consequences... but hey, it's worth a shot.

As I have only offered a simplistic opinion how do you know what I have or have not "ignored"? If you have an argument - put down the thesaurus and make it.
Cycling is only another scandal away from getting kicked out of the IOC, whom much of its budget is dependent on. This will force significant change and as the UCI is viewed as inept and/or corrupt the only solution is an independent anti-doping body.

But explain to me again why sports that don't have a perceived drug problem by their fans, would adopt the testing program used by the sport with the least credibility with its own. I'm a little fuzzy on that one.

Tennis and soccer dodged a bullet with Puerto.
But how long before another outside investigation snares another sport?
This will force it and the IOC to adopt better controls on the sports. WADA was set up in the first place because of the Festina Affair.

Self righteous is reserved for those fans who only want to see explosive efforts. Who castigate incredible athletes for finishing with the pack instead of the break, and don't see their pervasive attitude as contributing to the culture of doping. Who criticize a rider's "epic collapse" as disgrace and failure, rather than an indication that he may just be riding a little cleaner than the rest.

It has nothing to do with the fans -2 years ago most fans were optimistic with the introduction of the Bio Passport - but yet the doping continued..

For most Pro cyclists it is not an ego trip and are not likely to be concerned by what the fans think- the pressures to perform will come from their own ambitions and their teams to do the job they are paid to do.

Are these fans and their thirst for retribution and an unattainably clean sport the best thing cycling has going for it, or the worst? I don't know, but tennis, swimming, soccer have far fewer of these fans, and a far smaller perceived drug problem.

Actually - its the fans who are outspoken that will stay - most of those who stop following the sport move on quietly.

"Tennis, swimming, soccer" have a smaller perceived problem because they don't have investigations in Italy, France and the US currently in to their sports. most of the fans are in blissfull ignorance to what goes on in their sport.